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3 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Final Call for Votes - 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.4

 

Hello everyone

 

 Are there any 'underlying reasons'? Do you have too many wagons already? Do wagons not appeal to you? Do you find the complexity perplexing? I'd be interested to hear.

 

 

 

Brian

 

Hi Brian

To answer your question - I have carried a lot of research into the locos that I need ( types and their numbers), I have also carried out a fair amount of research into the carriages ( mainly just the types in this category) but, in the case of wagons, I have only really got as far as the number of goods trains and their approximate size. 

 

Working out what actual wagons were used on these goods trains in the 1930s is not something that can easily be found (I’d be delighted if someone can tell me otherwise:))

When I look at photos then I can see that there are different wagon heights etc.....but I don’t, yet, have the knowledge to identify the actual types. This is especially the case when most photos focus on the loco in a front 3/4 view. 

 

This is just my current “state of play” and I’m working on ways to make progress on the wagons!

 

Jon

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Thanks Phil and Jon

 

It does seem to follow that the overall focus of modellers is on locos - they are 'right out front' and look impressive with the all the smoke and steam. Coaches are sometimes 'attractive', but wagons are down the pecking order and - as Jon rightly says - getting the right information gets progressively harder the farther you go back in time.

 

The Locos>Coaches>Wagons 'hierarchy' is something we have seen in The 00 Wishlist Poll Results over the years.

 

The following is totally unscientific and was (almost literally) done 'on the back of a fag packet', but a look at the 2019 Results in relation to just LNER items which might have been seen at Peterborough North bears this out...

 

Locos - an average of 136 votes each item

Coaches - an average of 113 votes each item

Wagons - an average of 110 votes each item

 

Brian

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4 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Although we have had much discussion about these vehicles, the 'turnout' is not as high as one might expect. Are there any 'underlying reasons'? Do you have too many wagons already? Do wagons not appeal to you? Do you find the complexity perplexing? I'd be interested to hear.


I have not voted for anything in this poll. I have intentionally chosen not to, as I don't believe I would genuinely buy any of the options listed.

I don't have too many wagons, and I do like them -- but I already have a vast list of wagons I should buy but mostly don't. I can't afford most of them, and a lot of stuff sells out before it gets far enough up my list to be purchased. (Or what was planned as a rake turns out to be a single sample wagon).

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1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Perplexed of 36E here Brian. I like wagons and vans for the interest they provide, giving huge variety and nostalgia of a different era. However, I need fewer of these things as I don't model the main freight routes and not the ER. I know wagons and vans travelled far and wide, however the SR West of England Main Line was quite conservative in the type of traffic handled and I also have far too many wagons and vans many of which are not suitable anyway!!!!

I love these polls but forgive the no participation here as it is aimed at those that would actually purchase said items.

Phil

It's surprising what "unexpected" wagons did turn up on the SW main line, though.

 

In one of the wagon "albums" I just can't resist collecting, I recently came across one of A.E. West's photos dated 1957, and taken in Axminster goods yard, which seemed to be a periodic haunt of his. 

 

An ex-LNER 21t Loco coal wagon being used for domestic coal traffic. The kind that's available as a Parkside kit; minus the Loco Coal branding, but still in black. Kit duly acquired!

 

John

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32 minutes ago, Bloodnok said:


I have not voted for anything in this poll. I have intentionally chosen not to, as I don't believe I would genuinely buy any of the options listed.

Thanks Bloodnok

 

That is exactly the parameter within which to work with these Mini-Polls.

 

Brian

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6 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Final Call for Votes - 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.4

 

Hello everyone

 

A reminder that your 'Polling Station' closes at 1700 today. Results are expected during tomorrow, Friday 11 June.

 

Although we have had much discussion about these vehicles, the 'turnout' is not as high as one might expect. Are there any 'underlying reasons'? Do you have too many wagons already? Do wagons not appeal to you? Do you find the complexity perplexing? I'd be interested to hear.

 

If you haven't already voted, here’s what to do…

1. You may vote for any or all of the items listed.

2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR.

3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 12 – with comments and explanations following.

4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

1. Banana Vans (there are too many to list individually)

2. Bulk Grain Hopper Wagon 22½-ton (Diag.73 of late 1930s)

3. Cattle Wagon, 10ft wheelbase (1920s)

4. Fish Van 10-ton, 12ft wheelbase, as built (Diag.134 of 1938)

5. Fish Van 10-ton, 12ft wheelbase, as rebuilt, Recessed Doors, Branded ‘XP’/‘Insul Fish’, Painted White (Originally Diag.134 of 1938)

6. Goods Van 12-ton, Sliding Doors, Vertical Plank Sides, Horizontal Plank Ends with Small Shutters (Diags.14-17 of 1926)

7. Goods Van 12-ton, Sliding Doors, Plywood (Diags.172, 176, 195 of 1943-1948)

8. Low Machinery Wagon, Lowmac 4-wheel, 21-ton (inc BR Diags.2/240 etc of 1949/51)

9. Low Machinery Wagon, Flatrol 4-wheel, 20-ton (inc BR Diag.2/512 of 1949)

10. RCH Coal Wagon 5-, 6-, 7- & 8-plank (1887-1907)

11. Single Bolster Wagon (inc BR Diags.1/400, 1/401, 1/402 & 1/405 of 1949 on)

12. Tube Wagon Unfitted, 30ft 6ins & 32ft 0in (BR Diags.1/447 & 1/448 of 1951 and 1954)

 

Brian

2,4,5,6,7,12.

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7 hours ago, Bloodnok said:


I have not voted for anything in this poll. I have intentionally chosen not to, as I don't believe I would genuinely buy any of the options listed.

I don't have too many wagons, and I do like them -- but I already have a vast list of wagons I should buy but mostly don't. I can't afford most of them, and a lot of stuff sells out before it gets far enough up my list to be purchased. (Or what was planned as a rake turns out to be a single sample wagon).

I have a lot of sympathy with this viewpoint. I thought hard before voting because in reality I would only buy the wagons I voted for at a reasonable price which for me means significantly under £20. That probably means they’d have to be produced by Oxford Rail and not Bachmann! If you wish to discount my vote on that basis then feel free.

 

Andy

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10 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

I have carried a lot of research into the locos that I need ( types and their numbers), I have also carried out a fair amount of research into the carriages ( mainly just the types in this category) but, in the case of wagons, I have only really got as far as the number of goods trains and their approximate size. 

 

9 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

It does seem to follow that the overall focus of modellers is on locos - they are 'right out front' and look impressive with the all the smoke and steam. Coaches are sometimes 'attractive', but wagons are down the pecking order and - as Jon rightly says - getting the right information gets progressively harder the farther you go back in time.

 

The Locos>Coaches>Wagons 'hierarchy' is something we have seen in The 00 Wishlist Poll Results over the years.

I have to agree entirely. I suspect it will be ever thus in terms of the locos>coaches>wagons hierarchy.

 

The other issue with 'farther back in time' is that it inevitably gets harder to appreciate how dominant goods traffic was in the steam age railway. Two-thirds of the LNER's revenue was from goods traffic. And - remarkably - the same split is still there in the Beeching report, when summarising the revenue figures from 1961.

image.png.5b47469a49ae184d4d002b9a2196be4f.png

Other factors I would cite include:

 

Photographers tending to be lineside predominantly at weekends rather than weekdays (less paid holidays back then).

Tendency to photograph the glamourous / unusual in any case, and let the humble freight train rumble by.

 

I will happily admit to being equally as fatally drawn to glamorous express passenger locos - I have to keep reminding myself that a healthy mix of goods / passenger stock should be the mantra for a steam age layout.

 

PS - and a lot of freight went by night!

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9 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have a lot of sympathy with this viewpoint. I thought hard before voting because in reality I would only buy the wagons I voted for at a reasonable price which for me means significantly under £20. That probably means they’d have to be produced by Oxford Rail and not Bachmann! If you wish to discount my vote on that basis then feel free.

 

Andy

 

Hello Andy

 

Your votes are perfectly valid against the stated criterion of 'realistically wish to buy'.

 

Part of the agreed purpose of these Mini-Polls is to 'tease out' comments that might indicate a direction of thought of the voters. All the comments received are edited into one PDF and this is open to the makers to read.

 

It is up to them to set their prices but - if they are too high or don't seem to offer value for money against the competition - they will fail to sell.

 

Brian

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Re: Freight vs Passenger stock.
I don't really understand why there should be a modelling problem. Goods and mineral wagons are smaller and easier to make. There is a good supply of kits which can be made and/or modified, and present an unsurpassed method of cheering oneself up in dark and depressing times. There are some RTR models which can be used or modified as required, although I continue to be surprised at the relative paucity of LMS stock.

My current level of modelling skill hasn't yet risen to make much coaching stock, although I did complete a rake of 52' non-vestibuled vehicles just in time for Hornby to produce their nice models of the same.

image.png.0c13a4826d406ba7bc8191703ec9f98f.png

 

However, should Mr Macdermott's interesting exercise above instigate an RTR version  of my ex-GNR cattle wagon (of which I am quite proud) - I shall be very cross!

 

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Results - 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.4: Freight Stock – 4-wheel (Pre-1951)

 

Hello everyone

 

Many thanks to the 15 voters who took part. The Comments Received are appended on a PDF as usual.

 

High Polling

11        Goods Van 12-ton, Sliding Doors, Vertical Plank Sides, Horizontal Plank Ends, Small Shutters (Diags.14-17)

9          Goods Van 12-ton, Sliding Doors, Plywood (Diags.172, 176, 195 of 1943-1948)

8          Cattle Wagon, 10ft wheelbase (1920s)

8          Single Bolster Wagon (inc BR Diags.1/400, 1/401, 1/402 & 1/405 of 1949 on)

 

Middle Polling

7          Fish Van 10-ton, 12ft wheelbase, as built (Diag.134 of 1938)

7          Fish Van 10-ton, 12ft wheelbase, as rebuilt, Recessed Doors, Painted White (Originally Diag.134 of 1938)

6          Banana Vans (there are too many to list individually)

5          RCH Coal Wagon 5-, 6-, 7- & 8-plank (1887-1907)

 

Low Polling

4          Tube Wagon Unfitted, 30ft 6ins & 32ft 0in (BR Diags.1/447 & 1/448 of 1951 and 1954)

2          Bulk Grain Hopper Wagon 22½-ton (Diag.73 of late 1930s)

2          Low Machinery Wagon, Lowmac 4-wheel, 21-ton (inc BR Diags.2/240 etc of 1949/51)

2          Low Machinery Wagon, Flatrol 4-wheel, 20-ton (inc BR Diag.2/512 of 1949)

 

The results seem to make some logical sense…broadly speaking:

·         The High Pollers are more likely to be ‘go anywhere/generally useful’ types;

·         The Fish and Bananas in the Middle are perhaps more appealing to ‘main line modellers’; and

·         The more ‘specialised’ ones fall into the Low Polling.

 

We will be back on Monday with 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.5: More 4-wheel Wagons plus Some Containers.

 

This is a change to the previewed title in order to reflect our discussion about Open Wagons. You will find a couple of ‘coal types’ there too, so it will be interesting so see if they poll higher than the RCH types above.

 

Interestingly, we have seen very few new tool steam era wagons recently, but post-1964 types seem to be coming to market at a rate of knots!

 

Brian

 

Mini-Poll No.4 Comments Received.pdf

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I'll be interested to see who votes for container wagons.
I'm a fan of 'liner trains of all periods. Container wagons are not all the same.
David Geen made two superb kits for the 9ft and 10ft wheelbase GWR container wagon. 
The one example I'd really like to see would be the LMS variant. That was, effectively, an underframe with mounting points for the containers on it.
They were very unique. I love 'em. I've tried making my own with varying amounts of success.
Love the polls, thanks for doing them.
Regards,
Chris.

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1 hour ago, Sandhole said:

I'll be interested to see who votes for container wagons.
I'm a fan of 'liner trains of all periods. Container wagons are not all the same.
David Geen made two superb kits for the 9ft and 10ft wheelbase GWR container wagon. 
The one example I'd really like to see would be the LMS variant. That was, effectively, an underframe with mounting points for the containers on it.
They were very unique. I love 'em. I've tried making my own with varying amounts of success.
Love the polls, thanks for doing them.
Regards,
Chris.

Many thanks for the kind comments, Chris - appreciated.

 

Notice I said 'Containers'...not 'Container Wagons'. 

 

There will, however, be one actual Container Wagon in Mini-Poll No.6. It has been 'shunted out' of No.5 as your Yardmaster has had to re-marshal all vehicles due to a sudden influx of Open Wagons!:)

 

Brian

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45 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Many thanks for the kind comments, Chris - appreciated.

 

Notice I said 'Containers'...not 'Container Wagons'. 

 

There will, however, be one actual Container Wagon in Mini-Poll No.6. It has been 'shunted out' of No.5 as your Yardmaster has had to re-marshal all vehicles due to a sudden influx of Open Wagons!:)

 

Brian

Tidy, thank you.
Regards,
Chris.

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28 minutes ago, great northern said:

The 5.50 KX-Grantham now appears, today a very short formation, and again with Haymarket's newly outshopped A3 working a Doncaster duty. Steaming problems, running hot, who knows?  Clearly Doncaster are reluctant to part with it, which means we get this glorious sight again. The loco has been at Top Shed overnight, so possibly they have buffed up the works shine, which Doncaster would be unlikely to do.

 

 

1511402013_390.JPG.2fd0ca5d592127230e2c8fa5cadf6146.JPG

My favourite combo, kylchap A3 with a GNR tender.
The only A3 I ever saw, Harvester, was in this configuration.
This is gorgeous. The coaches are intriguing too.
Regards,
Chris.

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Hello everyone

 

I have been looking at the content of our forthcoming Mini-Polls and - unless Gilbert says 'no' - I will revamp them with one extra. The plan will then be as below from Monday...

 

No.5: More 4-wheel Wagons & Opens (as previewed but now includes more Opens following discussions)

No.6: Container Wagons & Containers (new entry following suggestion from Chris)

No.7: Bogie Freight Stock (as previewed)

No.8: Departmental Stock (as previewed)

 

Brian

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1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello everyone

 

I have been looking at the content of our forthcoming Mini-Polls and - unless Gilbert says 'no' - I will revamp them with one extra. The plan will then be as below from Monday...

 

No.5: More 4-wheel Wagons & Opens (as previewed but now includes more Opens following discussions)

No.6: Container Wagons & Containers (new entry following suggestion from Chris)

No.7: Bogie Freight Stock (as previewed)

No.8: Departmental Stock (as previewed)

 

Brian

I'm perfectly happy with that Brian, but I do wonder whether we should complete this by also considering locomotives. After all, they are probably to most people, the most important factor, and compared with the rest of the big four the LNER is still the worst represented by the RTR providers.

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3 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Gilbert

 

I'm certainly happy to do that.:)

 

Give me a few days to look at what options we have. There are many ways 'to slice cakes' and I try to keep our 'maximum loads' to about 10 or 12 items.

 

Brian

While we’re on the subject of extra polls, pre grouping coaches would be the one which I’d be most enthusiastic about. Some of the GNR outer suburban stock (D183/121) and similar NER vehicles which got about a bit ( D. 111/113).

 

I’d also be up for GE stock as used in push pull trains like this one.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135510-coulsdon-works/&do=findComment&comment=4327262

 

Most of this stock had gone by 1958 but was around until the mid ‘50s.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

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Hello Andy

 

That would require an OK from Gilbert.

 

If it was agreed, I have to say that the subject is not my area of knowledge and it would be up to others to provide me with 'the raw data' from which I could construct a Mini-Poll in context with the others.

 

Brian

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