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2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Thanks Brian.

9' = 3. Multiples.

10' = 7 & 8. Multiples.

 

Single use plastic: 3 & 8. Multiples.

 

Because they are SR!!! (Apologies to those of a nervous nature).

Phil

Exactly the same, both in choice and reasoning! 

 

I was planning to just observe these polls "from a distance" as I don't model the LNER (apart from the odd "visiting loco on a special working/tour"), but if you're going to put SR stuff in the polls then that's a different matter!

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Hello Clive

 

The subject is a complex one...and that is why I have noted twice now in the introductions that we have to take the broad brush view that if it looks like a 5-plank Open, it probably is a 5-plank Open.

 

I was quoting from the Don Rowland wagon book (viz): Diagram 1/032 covered 50 fully-fitted wagons built at Swindon to Lot 2082. They seem to be the same as GWR Diag.O42 and were probably a Great Western Order taken over by British Railways.

 

See page 29 of that book for table of all the variations of BR High Goods.

 

I have appended an extract from The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 Guide below.

 

Brian

 

Extract from Guide to The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019.

 

GWR Open Wagons – 17ft 6in, 10ft Wheelbase (Diags.O31 etc, 1932-BR days)

Wheelbase was increased on the 17ft 6in wagons from 9ft to 10ft from 1932 (Diag.O31). The most numerous was Diag.O32 of 1933-40. These were 5-planks with one wider but now it was second from the bottom. But, from 1939, Diag.O37 wagons usually had five equal width planks with a sixth narrow one between the second and third from the bottom. BR continued with construction of late Diags.O39/40/42.

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9 minutes ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

Exactly the same, both in choice and reasoning! 

 

I was planning to just observe these polls "from a distance" as I don't model the LNER (apart from the odd "visiting loco on a special working/tour"), but if you're going to put SR stuff in the polls then that's a different matter!

Though most SR goods trains had a good mix of wagons from the other companies :)

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00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.5 REVISED: More 4-wheel Wagons plus Opens

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to this revised version of the fifth in our series of seven Mini-Polls concerning rolling stock that has at least some connection with Peterborough North. (The original posted this morning has been deleted!) I am running them on behalf of Gilbert.

 

I’m sorry to say that Dunsignalling, Mallard, FarrMan and 3rd Rail Exile need to re-vote if they so wish.

 

Responding to earlier discussions, you now have a number of ‘Opens’ to choose from, split up as 9ft and 10ft wheelbase. Although the SNCF type was technically a Mineral Wagon, they were often used as Opens.

 

There are no doubt hundreds of different ‘Open’ vehicles that would have been seen at Peterborough North over the years, but our Mini-Polls can only capture a small number. It is often impossible to be ‘deadly precise’ with a 1-line descriptor, so we take the view that ‘if it looks like a 5-plank Open, it probably is a 5-plank Open’. Recent past experience is showing that makers are ‘tooling up’ to make as many variants as they can for any new model.

 

You can submit your wishes here, on the thread, as usual, or PM me direct if you prefer the ‘secret ballot’ method.

 

If you vote on the thread, please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selection – hopefully, that will promote some interesting debates – but please do not take it as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’!

 

Here’s what to do…

1 You may vote for any or all of the items listed plus responses to 13 and 14 (if you wish)

2 They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’.

3 Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 12 – with comments and explanations following.

4 If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

9ft wheelbase Opens

1 GWR 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diagrams between O3 & O11 from 1904)

2 LMS 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1666 of 1923)

3 SR 9ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1379 of 1926)

4 BR 9ft wb Open/Mineral Wagon – SNCF type, 16-ton (Diag.1/112, repatriated 1950)

 

10ft wheelbase Opens

5 GWR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.O31 etc from 1932)

6 LMS 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diags.1892 & 2110 of 1934 & 1946)

7 SR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1375 of 1940)

8 SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1400 of 1936)

9 BR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (GWR Diag.O31, from 1932 with 21 various BR diagrams)

10 LNER 10ft wb 6-plank Open Wagon (from c.1932)

 

Other Wagons

11 BR Hopper Wagon – Coal 13-ton (Diag.1/142 of 1949 on)

12 BR Pallet Van – Palvan (Diag.1/211 of 1952)

 

A Focused Choice!

13 If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 9ft wheelbase wagons, which one would you choose? 1, 2, 3 or 4?

14 If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 10ft wheelbase wagons, which one would you choose? 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9?

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box.

 

You have until 17.00 on Thursday 17 June. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Friday 18 June.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Gilbert’s thread only and neither The 00 Wishlist Poll Team nor RMweb are specifically involved, apart from me in my ‘personal capacity’.)

 

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Hello everyone

 

Here are my choices: 1 to 12 inclusive! However, there are some caveats…

 

Although I have voted for all the 9ft wheelbase wagons, the only one I would buy multiples of would be the SNCF type. As noted in my introduction, they are very useful in both Open and Mineral form.

 

I have also voted for all the 10ft types, but would only buy multiples of the SR 5-plank and the SR 8-plank. I like them – particularly the latter, being ‘a little bit different’ – and they will be useful on my layout when in Exeter Central mode.

 

As far as the ‘other wagons’ are concerned, I would have one of each, just for the variation.

 

However, I might be convinced to buy (slightly) more of the BR 13-ton Coal Hopper if someone can show me photos of any in the 1950s or 1960 anywhere south of say Rugby or Peterborough. Unless I’m looking in the wrong books, they seem very camera shy.

 

My ‘focused choices’ are:

Item 4: BR 9ft wb Open/Mineral Wagon – SNCF type

Item 8: SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon

 

Brian

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2 to 10 inclusive. 

 

Option 13:  3.  

Option 14:  6.

 

As a Southern Region modeller, I'm always cagey about hopper wagons (other than ones for carrying ballast) unless I can identify a destination with the facility to unload them.

 

John

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Vote and reasoning is unchanged...

 

3,7,8 please...

 

Focussed choices

13:  3 SR 9ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon

14:  8 SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon

 

I was planning to just observe these polls "from a distance" as I don't model the LNER (apart from the odd "visiting loco on a special working/tour"), but if you're going to put SR stuff in the polls then that's a different matter!

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Good Afternoon.

Please may I vote for:-

1,2,5,6,10

 

Focus 13 - No.2         (largest number built of the choices presented)

Focus 14 - No.10       (company loyalty)

 

 

Having checked the sources available on my shelves (Essery, Tatlow and Atkins,Beard,Hyde,Tourret , I note the following:-

1= GWR Dia 03  - 1,600 built to 1912  and O11 - 10,815 to 1919

2 = LMS Dia 1666 (ex MR design) - 54,450 built by 1930

5 = GWR Dia O31 - 150 built to 1933 - however Dia O32 - 11,755 built to 1940

6 = LMS Dia 1892 - 12,200 built by 1939 - wooden ends

       LMS Dia 2110 - 3,550 built by 1948 - corrugated steel ends

(perhaps this begs the question as to why both Dia 1892 and Dia 2110 are both together in No.6. However, I would be happy with both or either!)

 

10 = LNER Dia 91 - 15,750  built by 1937 - this had a wooden underframe as did Dia191  6,500 built to 1944.

 

Does this poll cover fitted and unfitted wagons?

Obviously that would give more variants - but since my interests lie before 1948 then the large numbers of unfitted vehicles and their 'common user' status makes them more suitable for my purposes.

 

(Sorry my bookshelves  have less material regarding the GWR and little regarding the SR. Apologies to those with loyalties and knowledge greater than mine)

 

Edited by drmditch
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Hello drmditch

 

As noted in the introductions:

It is often impossible to be ‘deadly precise’ with a 1-line descriptor, so we take the view that ‘if it looks like a 5-plank Open, it probably is a 5-plank Open’. Recent past experience is showing that makers are ‘tooling up’ to make as many variants as they can for any new model.

 

If you look at the table of High Goods Wagons on page 29 of the Don Rowland book, you will find a smorgasbord of:

* 21 Diagrams with a combination of

* Planked ends

* Steel ends

* Corrugated steel ends

* Curb rail fitted or not

* Shock absorbing or not

* Sheet support or not

* Full drop sides

* Soda Ash version

* Fitted or unfitted

* AVB

* AVB and Morton

* Hand brake Morton

* Double lever independent hand brake

 

And that probably doesn't account for buffers, wheels, liveries etc.

 

But to answer your question of does it cover fitted and unfitted...yes it does.

 

Brian

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39 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Good Afternoon.

Please may I vote for:-

1,2,5,6,10

 

Focus 13 - No.2         (largest number built of the choices presented)

Focus 14 - No.10       (company loyalty)

 

 

Having checked the sources available on my shelves (Essery, Tatlow and Atkins,Beard,Hyde,Tourret , I note the following:-

1= GWR Dia 03  - 1,600 built to 1912  and O11 - 10,815 to 1919

2 = LMS Dia 1666 (ex MR design) - 54,450 built by 1930

5 = GWR Dia O31 - 150 built to 1933 - however Dia O32 - 11,755 built to 1940

6 = LMS Dia 1892 - 12,200 built by 1939 - wooden ends

       LMS Dia 2110 - 3,550 built by 1948 - corrugated steel ends

(perhaps this begs the question as to why both Dia 1892 and Dia 2110 are both together in No.6. However, I would be happy with both or either!)

 

10 = LNER Dia 91 - 15,750  built by 1937 - this had a wooden underframe as did Dia191  6,500 built to 1944.

 

Does this poll cover fitted and unfitted wagons?

Obviously that would give more variants - but since my interests lie before 1948 then the large numbers of unfitted vehicles and their 'common user' status makes them more suitable for my purposes.

 

(Sorry my bookshelves  have less material regarding the GWR and little regarding the SR. Apologies to those with loyalties and knowledge greater than mine)

 

When Tourret wrote the books on waggons and Vans, were there loads of expletives in random places?

Gone already.....

P

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Hello again drmditch

 

Just to add a little to the 'smorgasbord' posting above...

 

Page 28 of Don Rowland's book shows a photo of a Diag.1/034 wagon. The caption contains the following:

On the nearside buffer at the right-hand end can be seen one of the 2.1/2" collars which were welded to the buffer shanks to give the 1ft 8.1/2" necessary with screw couplings on such conversions. Many previously unfitted wagons were dealt with in this way. 

 

Nothing's easy with railways, is it? :)

 

However, this is part of the 'unwritten purpose' of these Mini-Polls in that we hope the debates and comments will increase our overall understanding.

 

Brian

 

 

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Well I have to admit that I’m in the if it’s got five planks, it’s an open wagon camp and I struggle to tell the difference between all the variants. So, I’m unlikely to buy many of these, especially as kits are easy to build and probably better value. However, I would go for an LNER 6 plank and an LMS 5 plank, both 9’ and 10’ and perhaps an SR 8 plank for variety. The Ex SNCF wagons are lovely, but I’ve already built too many Parkside kits of them. I’m not really interested in palvans (as I have two or three kit built versions) or hopper wagons (as I don’t believe they worked at the south end of the GNML - happy to be corrected on this).
 

I’m even tighter when it comes to open wagons than with vans, so I’m unlikely to pay more than £10 for any of these.

 

So, 2,3,6,8,10 for me. With 2 and 10 being my top choices.

 

Andy
 

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1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello again drmditch

 

Just to add a little to the 'smorgasbord' posting above...

 

Page 28 of Don Rowland's book shows a photo of a Diag.1/034 wagon. The caption contains the following:

On the nearside buffer at the right-hand end can be seen one of the 2.1/2" collars which were welded to the buffer shanks to give the 1ft 8.1/2" necessary with screw couplings on such conversions. Many previously unfitted wagons were dealt with in this way. 

 

Nothing's easy with railways, is it? :)

 

However, this is part of the 'unwritten purpose' of these Mini-Polls in that we hope the debates and comments will increase our overall understanding.

 

Brian

 

 

Brian,

 

If you want a real fright, check out Page 40 of Don Rowland's "Twilight of the Goods"

 

SR 10' wb 5-plank, built unfitted in 1943, with (presumably second-hand) split-spoke wheels that have survived the addition of vacuum braking by BR in the 1950s, and with BR Oleo buffers which might, or might not, have been fitted at the same time.

 

Split-spoke wheels and Oleo buffers on the same wagon? Surely not.:devil:

 

The paint on it looks pretty new, so were all the changes concurrent and recent or was the AVB added earlier, with the buffers replacing older (extended) ones at a further overhaul/repaint not long prior to the taking of the photo in 1960?

 

Fascinating, and (for me) completely addictive.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Brian,

 

If you want a real fright, check out Page 40 of Don Rowland's "Twilight of the Goods"

 

SR 10' wb 5-plank, built unfitted in 1943, with (presumably second-hand) split-spoke wheels that have survived the addition of vacuum braking by BR in the 1950s, and with BR Oleo buffers which might, or might not, have been fitted at the same time.

 

Split-spoke wheels and Oleo buffers on the same wagon? Surely not.:devil:

 

The paint on it looks pretty new, so were all the changes concurrent and recent or was the AVB added earlier, with the buffers replacing older (extended) ones at a further overhaul/repaint not long prior to the taking of the photo in 1960?

 

Fascinating, and (for me) completely addictive.

 

John

A great excuse to use LMS Buffers......:D and I don't mean Long Meandering Slowly either but those of Mr Franks.

P

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11 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

1,2 & 10, most are to late for me.

 

manna

Hello manna

 

Did you wish to have the additional 'focused choices'? There is no obligation, but thought I'd better mention it.

 

Brian

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