Peterborough North

[great northern]

61207 has finished the journey, but will shortly be required to remove the stock to Nene sidings.

 

 

[great northern]

Andy Rush gave me an idea of the special wagons that would be seen at PN, often tacked on to coal trains. He also told me that very little brick traffic would be seen at PN itself by 1958, as nearly all was going to London by that time. However, I reckon that some shuffling about between marshalling yards would have occurred, so some are justified. Other than that, and some bogie bolsters, I've seen very little sign of most of those in today's poll in my period, so my vote goes to;-

 

2.5.6.10.

[Sandhole]

3 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.7: Freight Stock – Bogie, plus Palbrick for consistency

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to the seventh in our series of Mini-Polls concerning rolling stock that has at least some connection with Peterborough North. I am running the Mini-Polls on behalf of Gilbert.

 

You will find ‘an indication’ of what we are looking at via the suggested example diagrams in parentheses as it is often impossible to be ‘deadly precise’ with a 1-line descriptor. We take the view that ‘if it looks like a Trolley Wagon, it probably is a Trolley Wagon or a member of the same family’. Recent past experience is showing that makers are ‘tooling up’ to make as many variants as they can for any new model.

 

The Quint D and Plate are ‘a case in point’. They are combined in the list below because Tatlow, on page 83 of his book LNER Wagons, An Illustrated Overview, states that the underframe and bogies are identical.

 

Although the Palbrick is 4-wheel, I have included it here for ‘consistency’ with the Bogie Brick Wagon.

 

By coincidence, the Borail wagon was announced by Revolution Trains on Friday. For the purpose of this Mini-Poll, please still vote for it if you would have done so before this announcement.

 

You can submit your wishes here, on the thread, as usual, or PM me direct if you prefer the ‘secret ballot’ method.

 

If you vote on the thread, please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selection – hopefully, that will promote some interesting debates – but please do not take it as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’!

 

Here’s what to do…

1. You may vote for any or all of the ten items listed plus a response to item 11 (if you so wish)

2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’.

3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 10 – with comments and explanations following.

4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

Bricks

1   BR Palbrick Wagon – 4-wheel (BR Diag.1/021 of 1954)

2   Bogie Brick Wagon (LNER 1921)

 

Chemicals

3   Bogie Chemicals Tank Wagon (Caustic Soda, Liquid Chlorine, Nitric Acid etc)

4   Bogie Sulphate Wagon (LNER 1930)

 

Bolsters

5   Bogie Bolster D Wagon 42-ton (LNER and BR Diags.1/470, 1/472, 1/476, 1/478, 1/484 of 1949-61)

6   Bogie Bolster Quint D/Plate Wagon 42-ton (LNER and BR Diag.1/490 etc of 1949)

7   Bogie Rail Wagon 50-ton – Borail (Diag.1/482 etc of 1959)

 

Trolleys

8   Bogie Trolley Wagon – Flatrol (eg LNER DD of 1929, BR Diag2/511 of 1949)

9   Bogie Trolley Wagon – Trestrol (eg LNER Trestrol A, BR Diags.2/680 & 682 of 1951/3)

10 Bogie Trolley Wagon – Weltrol (eg LNER Weltrol P, BR Diag.2/730 etc of 1949)

 

11 Your specific Chemical Tank Wagons

There are multitudes of Chemical Tank Wagons, so please feel free to state any specifics you would like to see made.

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box.

 

You have until 17.00 on Thursday 24 June. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Friday 25 June.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Gilbert’s thread only and neither The 00 Wishlist Poll Team nor RMweb are specifically involved, apart from me in my ‘personal capacity’.)

 

Voting for 1, 3, 5, 6, 7,11The two Dublo chem tankers, ICI Chlorine and Traffic Services tankers.

[Dunsignalling]

Just 1, 3 and 5 for me, Brian, with my "11" being a Caustic Soda tanker.

 

John

[chris45lsw]

Bogie wagons:  My vote goes to 2, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10.

 

Chris KT

[drmditch]

Re: Freight Stock

10  (LNER ex NER Weltrol F, Dia 149 or Protrol G, Dia 142)

 

If I have read correctly the Bogie Sulphate Wagon (No.4) was only used on Teesside until sometime in BR days when they were used for London rubbish.

Edited June 28, 2021 by drmditch

[BMacdermott]

Hello drmditch

 

You are, indeed, correct about the Bogie Sulphate Wagons.

 

The 4-wheel Freight Mini-Poll was 'running over maximum permitted load' so the Containers went into their own category and the Palbrick was shunted here to be in context with the Bogie Brick Wagon.

 

That left bogie stock a little thin on the ground, so I felt it worthwhile adding.

 

If we had had night- and day-vision hi-resolution CCTV focused on the lines through PN during Gilbert's era, I'd guess we'd be pretty surprised at what actually went through, even if it might have been 'just the once'!

 

Brian

 

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Gilbert and everyone

 

Page 135 of Peter Coster's book, The Book of The Great Northern, Part Two, shows  a 9F hauling what might well be Bogie Plate Wagons.

 

The double-page spread photo across pages 138 & 139 shows the North Box. On the right is a Meat Van - partly hidden by a signal - and, on the left, an A Type Container of some description.

 

Brian

[great northern]

 Tonight we have a rather moody picture of a 9F on the Down slow.

 

 

Been darker than that all day here, the most filthy and horrible weather you could imagine. Cricket at Canterbury this evening nearly stopped by fog!  We are not amused.

[LNER4479]

19 minutes ago, great northern said:

Been darker than that all day here, the most filthy and horrible weather you could imagine. Cricket at Canterbury this evening nearly stopped by fog!  We are not amused.

Good grief - been a glorious afternoon here, hardly a cloud in the sky. Sat outside, modelling 4-6pm, lawn freshly mowed.

 

No doubt we'll pay for it in due course ...

[SRman]

Voting for 6 and 7.

Mainly for engineering train use.

[great northern]

Still dark and damp here, but never mind. Here is an 02/2 and more coal for London.

 

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

19 hours ago, drmditch said:

Re: Freight Stock

10  (LNER ex NER Weltrol F, Dia 149 or Protrol G, Dia 142)

 

If I have read correctly the Bogie Sulphate Wagon (No.4) was only used on Teesside until sometime in BR days when they were used for London rubbish.

Bogie sulphate wagons (at least some ) had moved to the London area by the late ‘50s to work an Ashburton Grove to Blackridge tip rubbish train (the former is now Arsenal’s stadium so still full of rubbish!). They were initially worked by B1s but were early converts to diesel haulage, initially class 20s and later class 15s with some double heading and a smattering of other classes thrown in. I model this train on Gresley Jn - lovely wagons, sorry about the lack of weathering on the class 15!

 

 

As for the poll, I’m working my way through all the bogie wagons in Tatlow and will respond in due course.

 

 

[BMacdermott]

Thanks for the above.

 

I have appended an extract from The Guide below. I was under the impression that the wagons moved to the ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’ in the 1960s.

 

Does anyone have the article referred to below?

 

Brian

 

Extract from The Guide to The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 (Edited to correct 'late 1960s' to 'late 1950s')

 

LNER Bogie Sulphate Wagon (1930)

Eighty of these wagons were built in 1930 to carry sulphate of ammonia in sacks from ICI’s Billingham factory. In the late 1950s, however, some were used on rubbish trains from either King’s Cross Goods or Ashburton Grove to Blackbridge Sidings on the truncated Welwyn Garden City-Luton branch. They were nicknamed ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’. An article about the workings themselves appeared in the November 1970 issue of Railway World.

Edited June 29, 2021 by BMacdermott
Edited to correct 'late 1960s' to 'late 1950s'.

[31A]

I haven't really got room or use for the wagons on the latest poll on my layout, but if available I would buy 2 and 4, and would be able to recreate the "Ashburton Pullman" as per @thegreenhowards picture earlier, or at least part of it!

 

[great northern]

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Thanks for the above.

 

I have appended an extract from The Guide below. I was under the impression that the wagons moved to the ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’ in the 1960s.

 

Does anyone have the article referred to below?

 

Brian

 

Extract from The Guide to The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019

 

LNER Bogie Sulphate Wagon (1930)

Eighty of these wagons were built in 1930 to carry sulphate of ammonia in sacks from ICI’s Billingham factory. In the late 1960s, however, some were used on rubbish trains from either King’s Cross Goods or Ashburton Grove to Blackbridge Sidings on the truncated Welwyn Garden City-Luton branch. They were nicknamed ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’. An article about the workings themselves appeared in the November 1970 issue of Railway World.

I am sure that I have seen a photo of this train at, I think, Welywn Garden City, and it was definitely in steam days. I think it was indeed captioned as late 50s.

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Thanks for the above.

 

I have appended an extract from The Guide below. I was under the impression that the wagons moved to the ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’ in the 1960s.

 

Does anyone have the article referred to below?

 

Brian

 

Extract from The Guide to The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019

 

LNER Bogie Sulphate Wagon (1930)

Eighty of these wagons were built in 1930 to carry sulphate of ammonia in sacks from ICI’s Billingham factory. In the late 1960s, however, some were used on rubbish trains from either King’s Cross Goods or Ashburton Grove to Blackbridge Sidings on the truncated Welwyn Garden City-Luton branch. They were nicknamed ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’. An article about the workings themselves appeared in the November 1970 issue of Railway World.

Brian,

 

I have that article. I tracked it down a couple of years ago following your recommendation in the wish list poll. It’s very much about the contemporary operation in the late ‘60s by which time it seems it was mainly 16T mineral wagons. It also suggests that WD 2-8-0s worked it in steam days with an N7 on the branch, but I’ve read that B1s did it somewhere else.  There is a picture of an N7 working it in pre bogie sulphate days in ‘steam memories 42’: P54.

 

and a picture of an N7 with the bogie sulphate wagons in 1959 here (8th row down on the left).

https://www.hertsmemories.org.uk/content/herts-history/topics/transport/railways/lostrails/ayot-greenway-photo-gallery

 

There’s a nice picture here of the train in its bogie sulphate / class 15 heyday. http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/imagingcentre/view/129910/PL

 

I also have a photo of the train with a single class 20 but I can’t find it now.

 

Andy

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by thegreenhowards
Directions to N7 photo which I can’t link to directly.

[BMacdermott]

Many thanks for that Andy! Great photos!

 

I live and learn!

 

And that is part of the purpose of these Mini-Polls...to tease out information that we might otherwise miss.

 

I will update The Guide notes to say late 50s. 

 

Brian

[Bloodnok]

11 hours ago, SRman said:

Voting for 6 and 7.

Mainly for engineering train use.

I'm definitely a sucker for engineers wagons -- 6 and 7 too please.

[Market65]

Well, after some careful thought, I’m also going with 6 and 7 for engineering train purposes. Just excellent wagons for those needs.

 

Rob.

[jollysmart]

1, 6 & 7 would be my choice.  1 for my general use and 6 & 7 as above for engineers use.

[great northern]

Now we come to some experimental high level shots at the north end. Your reactions will tell me if they are worth persevering with them.

 

The first features a Director in number 4 bay, which it will leave at 10am.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

12 minutes ago, great northern said:

Now we come to some experimental high level shots at the north end. Your reactions will tell me if they are worth persevering with them.

 

The first features a Director in number 4 bay, which it will leave at 10am.

 

 

Gilbert,

 

I like the high level view but the loco needs to be properly in focus. So I’m not keen on this particular shot but I think that the angle is worth persevering with.

 

Andy

 

 

[Jon4470]

In this poll my votes are for

5,6 ... these are the sensible ones

8,9,10.....these are the not-so-sensible choices....but I would find a reason for their use!

 

While I’m talking of the large ( and very specialist) wagons.....I’d like a 140 ton gun set wagon complete with 14” gun barrel

 

 

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Only one for me, No 2, although I have about six of them, 5 Tri-ang and one kit built, the Tri-ang brick wagons have had new bogies and wheels fitted, and suit my needs, the rest are to late a period or the wrong location.

 

manna