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Peterborough North


great northern
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51 minutes ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

I’ve just been playing with the Side by Side maps website. Playing with measurement tool the total length of each platform is approximately 340 feet. Take off the ramps at each end and the useable length is 300 feet.  
It is quite correct that here we are researching and debating train operation at a Station that ceased to exist 51 years ago. 
 

Paul

Thank you Paul. I wouldn't have a clue how to do that, but it is another confirmation, I believe, that drawing up was necessary. Although to many people this would seem to be just wasting time, I've enjoyed it, and we have an answer to an intriguing question.

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On 21/10/2021 at 17:44, great northern said:

Things had changed by the summer of 58, when there were three Down afternoon trains. The first left KX at 2.18pm, and was for Cleethorpes via Skegness, where it reversed! 12 on, 410 tons, and allowed 91 minutes non stop to PN. That had an RKB, which was in one of the weekday sets. The second one left at 3.52 and was for Cleethorpes. Again 12 on, 397 tons, 92 mins non stop to PN. It had an RF in the formation, but marked "to be locked, no dining service". That one only ran from 26th July to 30th August, but also when required on other weeks. The third was at 4.08pm, formed of a morning train from Skegness. 11 on, 365 tons, but marked not to exceed 420! as in fact all three were. 91 minutes allowed to PN. That contained an RMB, again marked to be locked.

 

The evening service left KX at 6.45, 11 on, 371 tons, not to exceed 385. It had an RB, not locked, and was allowed 93 mins to PN. That used the stock of one of the regular weekday trains. It has to be said that at the height of the summer Saturday service, everything, even the top expresses, was allowed 90 mins or slightly more to and from PN. Line occupancy did not allow anything faster, and it was usually rather slower. Finally, one at least of the weekday trains had Immingham men from Grimsby/Cleethorpes to Boston, but Boston men from there to KX and back. My uncle said that was his depot's proudest duty, but I don't know if he himself drove it.

 

I seem to be a mine of relatively useless information today.

 

Your mine of sometimes interesting information has touched on something else now.  I have often pondered why Saturday services were a bit slower. It part it would be due to heavier loads but I never thought much about line occupancy which in part it must have been. However its interesting that in 1958 even the top expresses were allowed 90 minutes or more from KX to PN  on summer Saturdays. Of course in 1958 the widening and track quadrupling  on the Potters Bar-Hadley Wood-Greenwood tunnel section was still not complete and apart from the top expresses and specials  there were also  on average around 5-6  suburbans, Peterborough, and Cambridge stoppers an hour  to be taken through  the congested  double track section  in addition  things like the Scotch Goods..  By 1960 , when the new tunnels were open and the quadrupling was complete the summer Saturday non stop times from KX to PN  were around 5-7 minutes quicker than 1958. In fact the 1.18 KX Bradford , following the Heart of Midlothian, was by then running on its midweek timing of 80 minutes to PN .

 

 As for your uncles Boston men , I am not surprised Boston-KX and back was their proudest duty as it was  probably the one with the biggest mileage payment ! 122 miles each way !

 

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21 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

Your mine of sometimes interesting information has touched on something else now.  I have often pondered why Saturday services were a bit slower. It part it would be due to heavier loads but I never thought much about line occupancy which in part it must have been. However its interesting that in 1958 even the top expresses were allowed 90 minutes or more from KX to PN  on summer Saturdays. Of course in 1958 the widening and track quadrupling  on the Potters Bar-Hadley Wood-Greenwood tunnel section was still not complete and apart from the top expresses and specials  there were also  on average around 5-6  suburbans, Peterborough, and Cambridge stoppers an hour  to be taken through  the congested  double track section  in addition  things like the Scotch Goods..  By 1960 , when the new tunnels were open and the quadrupling was complete the summer Saturday non stop times from KX to PN  were around 5-7 minutes quicker than 1958. In fact the 1.18 KX Bradford , following the Heart of Midlothian, was by then running on its midweek timing of 80 minutes to PN .

 

 As for your uncles Boston men , I am not surprised Boston-KX and back was their proudest duty as it was  probably the one with the biggest mileage payment ! 122 miles each way !

 

I think it was just the sheer weight of traffic. 1958 summer WTT shows 53 main line departures from KX between 0800 and 1700. The Potters Bar widening was a factor of course, but think of all the other bottlenecks that existed too, PN being one of the worst. It only needed one service to get out of course for the knock on effects to become cumulative. Getting trains into KX was a nightmare as well, and we have to bear in mind that quite a lot of stock was turned around at KX very quickly to avoid ECS movements.

 

I'm trying to work out my Saturday timetable at present, and it is getting to be nigh on impossible, so what must it have been like for the real thing? I have only one platform for all arrivals from the north, which includes the M&GN and E.Lincs locals as well as expresses. To get a non stop past Platform 2 when occupied meant crossing to the Down side, running between the excursion platform and the slow, and then crossing back at Crescent Bridge. Main line blocked twice every time, and all to be done at a crawl too. A bit easier on the Down, where at least there were two platform faces, but still a problem. Few engine changes at PN for that reason, but that meant many more at Grantham, and there wasn't that much space there either. From what I've read, a lot of passengers spent a long time contemplating New England yards every Saturday, as trains queued block by block to get through the station, so no point in having faster schedules, which could never have been kept.

 

As to Boston, well I was only 14 when my Uncle Tom was taken by cancer, but even at that age I could sense the pride that he had in the job he did. He had been a driver for some years, but at Boston that meant spending a lot of time banging around on run down K2s, so it wasn't a glamorous job. I'm sure, as you say, the money was a factor, but Boston men in general were very pleased that they had at least one main line duty to KX, even if it wasn't on one of their own engines.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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2 hours ago, great northern said:

 

 

As to Boston, well I was only 14 when my Uncle Tom was taken by cancer, but even at that age I could sense the pride that he had in the job he did. He had been a driver for some years, but at Boston that meant spending a lot of time banging around on run down K2s, so it wasn't a glamorous job. I'm sure, as you say, the money was a factor, but Boston men in general were very pleased that they had at least one main line duty to KX, even if it wasn't on one of their own engines.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


I was being slightly facetious in referring to mileage payments but nevertheless a drivers basic wage of around £9 per week in 1958 was pretty low even by the standards of the time, so overtime or mileage was an important factor.  Although some enginemen had absolutely no interest in  the job , I think your uncle was typical of the pride the majority took. I have a video of the Buntingford  branch and all the old drivers interviewed are exactly the same and express the view that “ the job came first “ , and speak with great pride about it

Even the very end of steam we see, in the majority of photographs , drivers still wearing a collar and tie under their overalls. We read of many that would keep an old pair of dirty overalls to oil up then change into a clean pair to take the mainline express out .  
It is a fascinating side of life which sadly seems to have disappeared.

 

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13 hours ago, great northern said:

Some engines seemed to turn up at least once every time I visited the ECML, and this was one of them.

 

 

577844191_21232.JPG.7aa95ce8d9399afd88d11b9b01000875.JPG

60123 would be in my top five most seen, and thus got booed regularly. I don't think I saw it at Peterborough, but then I only remember going there twice.

I like the detail around the water column.

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1 hour ago, 2750Papyrus said:

I like the detail around the water column.

That was one of the things that stood out in prototype pictures, so I wanted to get as near as possible. The trespass notice should really be a GNR one, but at the moment that is filed under "too difficult". I do like small detail, even if I can't see it very well nowadays.

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