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I think I like the avian thingies request, especially when such an eclectic rake of vehicles is paraded past the photographer. And thanks also for the lovely freight pics trundling through the covered platforms, I can just imagine the noise of all those wagons clanging together as the driver eases them through. 9Fs do look lovely though, as is Mr Duck's latest one which is also looking very nice.

 

So, about that next train, when did you say it was due?

 

Cheers

Tony

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Dear Gilbert,

 

I'm sure that I already replied to this post on the subject of "wet and gloomy" weather on layouts, but it seems to have disappeared from the record so I must have done something wrong.  So, forgive me if I am repeating myself, but followers of moody atmospheric layouts may be interested in Jim Smith-Wright's Brettell Road project: www.p4newstreet.com/category/brettell-road

Also, this layout/diorama: Brooklyn 3am

www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-87-july-2009/

Not that I am suggesting you spray the entire layout with Klear and put umbrellas on all the spotters...

 

All best, Matthew

Hi Matthew

 

Umbrellas, cor you were posh! All we had was a pack-a-mac that leaked. :sarcastichand:

Edited by Clive Mortimore

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Oh.... J6, N5 and articulated stock in the same post.... I need to lie down.

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At last a quiet day at home, and a chance to do a bit more work on the layout, and some photography, though this was limited by a painful and swollen knee, which resented my crawling about on it. Anyway, here is what I managed to do before the battery ran out. ( The camera, not mine).

post-98-0-30090800-1431263881_thumb.jpg

Oooh look shiny!  So what is a Haymarket A3 doing at the head of the 5.25pm slow to Kings Cross? Well, she is clearly ex works, and for some reason this was, according to the 1958 Railway Observer, a Doncaster duty. I suppose 36A can claim then that this is a legitimate running in turn.

post-98-0-55464900-1431264176_thumb.jpg

It is now 5.23pm, and we see another Doncaster engine running in with the 4.10pm Down Leeds. if you have been paying attention, you will know which loco was the favourite for this turn. And as it seems to be a popular subject, here are a few more shots of its progress into Platform 6.

post-98-0-52973700-1431264374_thumb.jpg

I do like the occasional bit of monochrome.

post-98-0-07588600-1431264442_thumb.jpg

The cameraman has found a higher vantage point, though I'm not at all sure where it might be.

post-98-0-12425100-1431264523_thumb.jpg

And by this time I had remembered to blow most of the dust off the front of the loco, but not to do sonething about the mismatched lamps.

post-98-0-13887900-1431264627_thumb.jpg

And a shot of t'other side to finish with.

 

And now, an appeal. No, not for cash, though I suppose if you happen to have a bit of spare....... no seriously, I am running out of ideas as to different angles and locations at which to point the camera, so please do make suggestions, both as to what locos or stock you would like to see, and from where you would like them to be photographed. Subject to the problematic light conditions, I'll do my best to oblige.

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Any news on any more buildings/other improvements pending ?

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I find not just the locos, but the make up of the trains fascinating. Descriptions of the rakes would be useful.

Edited by davidw
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As my personal batteries have been flat for a few weeks I must apologise for missing the appearance of the 'pilot of importance' earlier in the week!  That other odd 4-4-2t thing that covers pilot turns is of little interest, real station pilots have 6 coupled wheels......See Newcastle J72 if reinforcement is needed!  May your (cross) wind last long, sir. :jester:

 

That J6 is nice too, nice to see her stretching her legs, hope she didn't run hot galloping along so fast.  As for requests, other than the obvious, the minor services are of more interest than all those Thompson Specifics or whatever they are called.  :angel:   Also the lighting, how about some contre-jour experiments, silhouettes, a little Colin Gifford-esque approach?  Don't want much, do I!! :mail:

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I am not advocating the use of a stick, however does you camera have the facility for a stick thingy and 'remote shutter' lead? If so you could, perhaps, get into different places?

If not I would be happy to have pics of (say) just the Signal Box or a close up of the Hotel.

Phil

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Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I visited the Derby Roundhouse Show today and very good it was too. However, I was reminded whilst there that the 'problem' of overscale, 4mm loco lamps might be at an end. I am persuing a person that may well be the answer to our prayers.

Phil

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Hmmm I think the photographer is to be congratulated for creating what was obviously the 1958 equivalent of the 'Selfie Stick'

 

 

 

Gilbert Your question about other views/angle raises an interesting and philosophical question - does accurately modelling a specific time and place actually restrict one's ability to enjoy the railway?

 

I've wondered this while building Waverley East, because I've found that even coming close to a realistic representation of St. Margarets or Haymarket would rule out many of the modellers' license activities I need to incorporate.

 

For example. this weekend I've been building a scenic break to go between the (old) engine shed board, and the new carriage sidings/main lines. This is about 4" wide and over 10' long. It needs to be demountable so I can lift up the shed board for wiring or point motor attention. The said board is hinged to make this easier.

 

To create something light and portable means the ideal building material is polystyrene. Cutting out a piece that is a scale 25' x 220' the obvious thing to me was to turn this into a carriage maintenance platform with a stone wall to the engine shed side.

 

All of which is reasonably prototypical, within my modeller's scope, but not historically accurate.

 

It gets even less accurate when I then add the dimension of turning this into a car carrier loading point - again something that would have happened, and indeed in Edinburgh, but not in this historical location.

 

So I end up with compromise - instead of the layout being an accurate tableau, it becomes an impressionist rendering of the scene.

 

IMHO, this isn't a bad thing - if I want to shunt a 'Deltic' onto the head of my now formable Anglo-Scottish car carrier train, which happens to be being made up in the carriage sidings much the same as my parents had to do when going to the West Country by motorail ex Kensington Olympia, I can do so, and it will appear to all but the most knowledgeable observer to be perfectly OK.

 

In that respect I do wonder if the quest for accuracy limits modellers' ability to enjoy the railway to its fullest extent?

 

There's a new thread to go for no doubt!

Edited by bigwordsmith
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Any news on any more buildings/other improvements pending ?

Buildings are on hold for a while, as Gravy Train has I'm sad to say had a family bereavement. There are a couple more small sheds/huts to come for the District Engineers area when he is able to get round to them. Longer term, Crescent Bridge and Spital Bridge MK2 versions will be needed. That should be it so far as infrastructure is concerned, though there are more platform fitments, lamps etc to come also.

 

That leaves the vexed question of backscenes, which Andy Y and I will continue thinking about, and there are still signals to be made operational, plus lots of little finishing touches such as bedding in of buildings. And even when all that is done, I'm sure I will be able to think of more.

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Hmmm I think the photographer is to be congratulated for creating what was obviously the 1958 equivalent of the 'Selfie Stick'

 

 

 

Gilbert Your question about other views/angle raises an interesting and philosophical question - does accurately modelling a specific time and place actually restrict one's ability to enjoy the railway?

 

I've wondered this while building Waverley East, because I've found that even coming close to a realistic representation of St. Margarets or Haymarket would rule out many of the modellers' license activities I need to incorporate.

 

For example. this weekend I've been building a scenic break to go between the (old) engine shed board, and the new carriage sidings/main lines. This is about 4" wide and over 10' long. It needs to be demountable so I can lift up the shed board for wiring or point motor attention. The said board is hinged to make this easier.

 

To create something light and portable means the ideal building material is polystyrene. Cutting out a piece that is a scale 25' x 220' the obvious thing to me was to turn this into a carriage maintenance platform with a stone wall to the engine shed side.

 

All of which is reasonably prototypical, within my modeller's scope, but not historically accurate.

 

It gets even less accurate when I then add the dimension of turning this into a car carrier loading point - again something that would have happened, and indeed in Edinburgh, but not in this historical location.

 

So I end up with compromise - instead of the layout being an accurate tableau, it becomes an impressionist rendering of the scene.

 

IMHO, this isn't a bad thing - if I want to shunt a 'Deltic' onto the head of my now formable Anglo-Scottish car carrier train, which happens to be being made up in the carriage sidings much the same as my parents had to do when going to the West Country by motorail ex Kensington Olympia, I can do so, and it will appear to all but the most knowledgeable observer to be perfectly OK.

 

In that respect I do wonder if the quest for accuracy limits modellers' ability to enjoy the railway to its fullest extent?

 

There's a new thread to go for no doubt!

I think the simple answer is that it depends:-

 

a)  on the modeller and

 

b) the subject of the model.

 

 Taking b first, there is an obvious potential risk involved in choosing a prototype which has very restricted features, whether in relation to infrastucture, operation, locos and rolling stock, or a combination of all of those. Even so, the degree of frustration caused will depend on the outlook of the person who chooses to model it.

 

As to a), I can only really speak from personal experience. I've said before that I can't cope with made up names for places that I know never existed on the ECML, so in the end it had to be a prototype location for me. The trick then was to choose one which I could be pretty sure would not cause boredom to set in, and which would allow me legitimately to run those locos which I felt I must have. That seems to have worked out well, and I do feel that I'm reaping the rewards of very careful planning and thought before starting the project. In my case of course there is another factor. As a recovering locoholic, I am well aware that if I allowed myself to move away from what was actually seen on the prototype, the floodgates would be opened, and I would finish up acquiring all sorts of things just because I like the look of them. That doesn't say much for my willpower, but it is a fact, and potentially a very expensive one.

 

In the end, surely we should all do what is going to satisfy us, and give us personal pleasure. The hobby is, or should be, a diverse one, and the modelling Taliban have no right whatsoever to tell individuals what they can or can't do. So, Peter, you should do what you want to do, and what you are comfortable with, and above all what will give you pleasure. There is no way you could hope to model the whole of Edinburgh Waverley, let alone Haymarket or St Margarets, so compromise is inevitable. Provided you make it clear that it isn't intended to be an exact replica, which you have done, then surely the only thing which is really necessary is to capture the atmosphere and feel of the Waverley area, and create a coherent whole which will announce to all who see it that is what it represents. Oh, and most important of all, will give you satisfaction and pleasure.

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"a recovering locoholic"

 

That phrase made my day.

 

I can see a new thread starting up: Locoholics Anonymous.  We all stand up one at a time, and confess to daft anachronistic loco purchases....

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I do like the Crescent Bridge and Great Northern Hotel models, immediately recognisable representations of these distinctive and still extant structures.

 

The illusion of reality is so subjective that I don't wish to comment on it, but once in a while you see a model which embodies its notional location. When I first saw Crumley and Little Wickhill, I knew immediately that it was representing the White Peak. This is one of those layouts, I think.

Edited by rockershovel
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"a recovering locoholic"

 

That phrase made my day.

 

I can see a new thread starting up: Locoholics Anonymous.  We all stand up one at a time, and confess to daft anachronistic loco purchases....

OK, I'll see when Wembley stadium is available.

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Brilliant. I looked at the A4, then read the bit about a Doncaster engine, and thought, "Ah..."

 

As for dust on it's front, surely they are dead flies.?

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I find not just the locos, but the make up of the trains fascinating. Descriptions of the rakes would be useful.

 Unfortunately I can't do much in the railway room just now, as I've been told not to put too much weight on my injured knee, which means crawling is not a good idea. I can't therefore take photos, but if it is of interest I can give a bit of detail about train formations, and the challenges of trying to replicate them.

 

For many years, I couldn't see a way to do it at all - the potential cost of all the necessary Gresley and Thompson catering cars, plus goodness knows how many MK1 BSO's seemed impossible. I cheated by using BSK's instead of BSO's, and MK1 RC's instead of LNER stock. I've gradually managed to make improvements, but it is a long process, and nowhere near complete. A couple of weeks ago I decided to tackle the Leeds services, and to get at least a couple of correct rakes running, so out came the official 1958 formation book.

 

I guess we are all used to rigid fixed train formations now, and have been for many years, but things were very different back in the 50's. During the period of my sequence, 0715 to 2200, there were 10 regular services to and from the West Riding. Three were named trains, White Rose, West Riding and Yorkshire Pullman, all of which had their own unique formations. I have now managed to do the first two, and the Yorkshire Pullman should be finished within a few months. I knew of course that I couldn't do all the rest, so there are two "ordinary" West Riding trains, one Up and one Down. Surely, I thought, there must be many similarities in their formations, thus making it possible to create two "typical" sets? Er..... no. Here are the Down trains. An Asterix denotes a MK1 vehicle.

 

0800 Leeds/Bradford/Hull.  BSO* SK* CK* CK* BG TSO* SO RF  BCK*  9 vehicles

 

1020 Leeds/Ripon/Bradford/Hull BCK* SO RK FO ( Triplet set) CK* BSO* TSO* BCK* TSO* BSK* CK* CK* BSO* 13 vehicles

 

1320 Leeds/Bradford  BCK* TSO* SO RU FO* BSO* CK* SK* CK* TSO* BCK*     11 vehicles

 

1605 Leeds/Bradford/York  BSO* CK* SK* SK* CK* BSO* BCK* TSO* SK* RB FK* BSK*    12 vehicles

 

1820 Leeds/Halifax/Hull  BCK* TSO* TSO* FO* RF RSP BSO* BG TSO* BCK* CK* BSO*   12 vehicles

 

 I've left out the trains that ran as required, or only on certain days of the week, as I have another cunning plan to deal with them. Now, you might think that the Up trains would have the same formations, and some did, but others were split on arrival, and a completely different formation came back Up.

 

I can't really go above 11 vehicles, because anything longer doesn't look right proportionately, but it might be possible to just take out one vehicle, or so one might think. But look closely, and what do you take out? I'm very surprised how few SK's there are in any of these trains. And where are these hoped for similar formations? I can't find any. So far, I've settled on the 1320 Down, as it has the same catering cars as my current train, and the Up service, the 0750 from Leeds, had exactly the same formation. Only one BSO in it too, which helps. The Up train I am still pondering. My current formation has Thompson catering cars, one of them a Kitchen car, which doesn't really belong in any of the 1958 sets. I have Triplet sets, but they are in Newcastle sets, most of which had them.

 

If this is of any interest, I can post the Up formations too, or anything else that might be of interest, but I think this is quite enough for now.

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Great fun isn't it? We have similar issues with the pre-war scene and Jonathan is doing a magnificent job in filling the gaps to enable us to recreate representative formations that (hopefully) at least go some way to capturing the flavour of these distinctive trains.

 

post-16151-0-06619300-1431534032.jpg

 

Take this set in the making, for example. This will represent the 5.50pm departure from King's Cross and looks to be broadly equivalent of your 1820. The formation from behind the loco is:

BCK (Lincoln) / BTK ('R')TO RF SFO (Leeds) / BFK TK BTK (Harrogate) / BCK (Halifax)

 

It should be:

BCK (Halifax) / BTK TK RTP RF SFO (Leeds) / BFK TK BTK (Harrogate) / BFK TK BTK (Bradford) /BCK (Lincoln)

 

So we've dropped one of the 3-coach through portions (as they are identical) and lost the TK in the main portion to get it down to a manageable train length. Also swopped the designation of the BCKs round - the Lincoln coach is shunted off at Grantham and it's simpler (from an exhibition point of view) doing it from the front.

 

And yes, different formation in the reverse direction - if you can even trace the equivalent reverse working, as all portions and through coaches did different things anyway! The lengths the LNER / BR(E) (and no doubt other companies / regions) went to tailor each train service to meet established / evolving travel needs is at times breathtaking.

 

So yes, I empathise - virtually impossible to truly replicate all the exact formations but great fun trying!

Edited by LNER4479
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 Unfortunately I can't do much in the railway room just now, as I've been told not to put too much weight on my injured knee, which means crawling is not a good idea. I can't therefore take photos, but if it is of interest I can give a bit of detail about train formations, and the challenges of trying to replicate them.

 

For many years, I couldn't see a way to do it at all - the potential cost of all the necessary Gresley and Thompson catering cars, plus goodness knows how many MK1 BSO's seemed impossible. I cheated by using BSK's instead of BSO's, and MK1 RC's instead of LNER stock. I've gradually managed to make improvements, but it is a long process, and nowhere near complete. A couple of weeks ago I decided to tackle the Leeds services, and to get at least a couple of correct rakes running, so out came the official 1958 formation book.

 

I guess we are all used to rigid fixed train formations now, and have been for many years, but things were very different back in the 50's. During the period of my sequence, 0715 to 2200, there were 10 regular services to and from the West Riding. Three were named trains, White Rose, West Riding and Yorkshire Pullman, all of which had their own unique formations. I have now managed to do the first two, and the Yorkshire Pullman should be finished within a few months. I knew of course that I couldn't do all the rest, so there are two "ordinary" West Riding trains, one Up and one Down. Surely, I thought, there must be many similarities in their formations, thus making it possible to create two "typical" sets? Er..... no. Here are the Down trains. An Asterix denotes a MK1 vehicle.

 

0800 Leeds/Bradford/Hull.  BSO* SK* CK* CK* BG TSO* SO RF  BCK*  9 vehicles

 

1020 Leeds/Ripon/Bradford/Hull BCK* SO RK FO ( Triplet set) CK* BSO* TSO* BCK* TSO* BSK* CK* CK* BSO* 13 vehicles

 

1320 Leeds/Bradford  BCK* TSO* SO RU FO* BSO* CK* SK* CK* TSO* BCK*     11 vehicles

 

1605 Leeds/Bradford/York  BSO* CK* SK* SK* CK* BSO* BCK* TSO* SK* RB FK* BSK*    12 vehicles

 

1820 Leeds/Halifax/Hull  BCK* TSO* TSO* FO* RF RSP BSO* BG TSO* BCK* CK* BSO*   12 vehicles

 

 I've left out the trains that ran as required, or only on certain days of the week, as I have another cunning plan to deal with them. Now, you might think that the Up trains would have the same formations, and some did, but others were split on arrival, and a completely different formation came back Up.

 

I can't really go above 11 vehicles, because anything longer doesn't look right proportionately, but it might be possible to just take out one vehicle, or so one might think. But look closely, and what do you take out? I'm very surprised how few SK's there are in any of these trains. And where are these hoped for similar formations? I can't find any. So far, I've settled on the 1320 Down, as it has the same catering cars as my current train, and the Up service, the 0750 from Leeds, had exactly the same formation. Only one BSO in it too, which helps. The Up train I am still pondering. My current formation has Thompson catering cars, one of them a Kitchen car, which doesn't really belong in any of the 1958 sets. I have Triplet sets, but they are in Newcastle sets, most of which had them.

 

If this is of any interest, I can post the Up formations too, or anything else that might be of interest, but I think this is quite enough for now.

 

That is most useful. I'm surprised by the BG's in the  middle of the train - presumably where rakes were split.

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oh and the BSO's !!!! I've one at the moment a resided SO I liked the cut and shut that Tim did. Also I've surprised by the number of Mk1's. Still patiently awaiting retooled Thompson's 

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One way or another, this hadn't been a good week so far. Painful knee, which on Tuesday caused me to have to walk off the Brabazon course at the Belfry after nine holes. That's the Ryder Cup course by the way, and a special opportunity which doesn't come along very often. On the way, the sheer brilliance of West Midlands road markings and signage had resulted in my being directed onto the M6 toll, and having to pay £4 for the dubious privilege of driving along it for about three quarters of a mile before I could get off again. :ireful: A couple of days before, a "gentleman" in a new looking Merc with personalised plates chose to make an emergency stop right in front of me, on an open road with no other traffic or hazard in sight. Presumably he hoped I would run into the back of him. Somehow I didn't, and managed to swerve round him. Apparently I still have quite fast reactions. Looked in my mirror, and he just sat and smirked at me. He looked to be a rather large "gentleman", so I did not stop to remonstrate with him, let alone ask for his name. No point in calling the police of course, even if I had a mobile phone, which I don't.

 

BUT, then today my faith in human nature and life generally has been restored by the arrival of our good friend Mallard 60022, aka Phil, about whom no jokes will be made today. Some time ago, Phil offered to make something for me, and today it arrived.

post-98-0-52834100-1431618286_thumb.jpg

post-98-0-74334600-1431619089_thumb.jpg

post-98-0-67194600-1431619114_thumb.jpg

This he says is a gift. I'm not at all sure what I've done to deserve it. He has been very self critical about the building process, though I can't see why he should be, and it is among his first attempts at painting coaches - something he was a bit scared of trying. I can't think why. Lovely, isn't it? I shall now have a go at lining, numbering, glazing and creating interiors, plus roof and underframe weathering, then it will go back to Phil to add a few more bits and complete it. And that wasn't all.

post-98-0-37176400-1431618877_thumb.jpg

post-98-0-61874800-1431618898_thumb.jpg

 

Phil is another who has attended the TW school of coach bashing, far more successfully than I, as you can see, and he has turned a Hornby BCK donor into this three compartment brake. Again, I shall have a go at lining glazing and numbering, plus roof painting and underframe weathering, before returning it to him for finishing touches. And so, I feel much better about life now - many thanks Phil.

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Blooming eck -  t'Duck actually does build things- there's proof!

 

I tek it all back!

 

Damn smart job

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