Peterborough North

[great northern]

I do hope we see more of that A5, Gilbert!

 

Very nice.

It has appeared before, but many pages ago. The problem with my sequence is that individual locos appear very infrequently. The A5 is rostered for just two duties out of 374, and it takes me a long time to work through the whole sequence. And then of course, I don't photograph every movement. Anyway, to redress the balance, here is a portrait of a handsome old lady.

She was built for me about 15 years ago from the Craftsman kit by one of Norman Wisenden's builders, I can't remember his name I'm afraid. 69808 is a loco with particular significance for me, as she was shedded at either Lincoln or Boston for most of the 50s, and I saw her regularly. My uncle drove her often when she was at Boston, and I will certainly have "cabbed" her when he took me round 40F on a Sunday, though I don't think I ever got to ride on her.

 

While doing this one, I remembered that I had seen a photo of her at PN, and found it on the Peterborough Images web site. It is reproduced below with the kind permission of the site owner.

 

then I tried to recreate it, not very succesfully.

That porter insisted on edging into shot, and all the passengers cleared off. I'm not sure what lens the photographer of the original used, but it seems to have elongated the roof - the model is not that far out, Peter  Leyland and I took considerable trouble to get it right. Unfortunately my shot shows up the biggest failing of the Craftsman kit, namely the smokebox door, which is far too bulbous. From other angles though it looks very good.

 

While scrolling through the Peterborough Images site looking for the A5, I also found this, and realised that I do have 43067, so I set about trying to recreate that one as well.

This just didn't work, even though I went against my usual policy, and erased things that didn't appear on the original, the water tower in particular. I never seem to be able to get the contrast right in b&w shots either. Still, I must bear in mind the constraints that the camera imposes, as well as my own failings.

[coachmann]

In 1958 or 59, I was working in Manchester and heard about a BR model railway exhibition in Hyde so I toddled off to London Road station looking forward to a ride behind an A5. I saw one waiting to move off light engine somewhere but our train was a DMU! That's life. Those GC tanks always looked larger than equivalent engines. There was so much going on at that time in the north west and things we took for granted were gone before we blinked an eye.

 

Regarding the real and model photos, you need to go wide-angle to capture the perspective. Use the cameras back screen on which to compose your shot....It's more useful than the viewfinder on these occasions.

Edited June 19, 2015 by coachmann

[Anotheran]

I think that last one is closer than you are saying. Your viewpoint is a couple of scale feet too high and I suspect needs to move about three scale feet to the left (both probably impossible due to the dimensions of the camera). The loco I think should also be about a scale foot further forwards. Other than that you're missing the bicycle and the driver

 

Adding all the above you get a total of about 28 mm, a bike and a bloke's head. If I get anywhere near that close when I'm at that stage I'll be delighted!

[Mallard60022]

One very helpful thing I've noticed in that Pig pic is the telegraphg pole behind the box. Shows the J shaped Insulator supports. I hoping my Express Models order for these pieces will arrive soon. 

Quackers.

[Alister_G]

Some more great photos Gilbert.

 

Re your first reproduction, I think you (the camera) are too close to the station, you could have done with moving back about 3 inches, and the loco could have come forward an inch. Your second attempt is spot on for camera position, just the loco is too far back again.

 

But that said, the fact that you can get so close to recreating the prototype shots just shows how good a model your layout is. By the time Phil's filled up the background with telegraph poles and wires, you'll never know the difference

 

Good stuff!

 

Al.

[Mallard60022]

Some more great photos Gilbert.

 

But that said, the fact that you can get so close to recreating the prototype shots just shows how good a model your layout is. By the time Phil's filled up the background with telegraph poles and wires, you'll never know the difference

 

Good stuff!

 

Al.

Not a good idea to hold one's breath mate. I've mentioned this before, however the parts (and finished products/modified) from Express Models may well be given some screen time. I have some samples destined for SJish to show G next week.

I'd also like to thank the RMWebber who has kindly been in touch with me and has provided excellent advice on the 'real' layout of these TPs. That advice has been invaluable.

Like so many other modelling things, the detail is in the smaller items that just make a scene. Bit like the 'theatre set' effect. With luck, Gilbert and I will be able to work with some compromise. One thing is certain, Gilbert's weathering of the things will be excellent. I do hope he has studied the amount of birdy doo required to set the things off  

Quackers. 

[great northern]

Not a good idea to hold one's breath mate. I've mentioned this before, however the parts (and finished products/modified) from Express Models may well be given some screen time. I have some samples destined for SJish to show G next week.

I'd also like to thank the RMWebber who has kindly been in touch with me and has provided excellent advice on the 'real' layout of these TPs. That advice has been invaluable.

Like so many other modelling things, the detail is in the smaller items that just make a scene. Bit like the 'theatre set' effect. With luck, Gilbert and I will be able to work with some compromise. One thing is certain, Gilbert's weathering of the things will be excellent. I do hope he has studied the amount of birdy doo required to set the things off

Quackers. 

Indeed I have Phil. Having taken the necessary precautions against infection with bird flu,( full hazard proof overalls, gloves and mask), I ventured forth and measured a dropping left by a fat wood pigeon. The tape was of course sterilised immediately after so doing. I found that the said dropping was no more than half an inch in length. In 4mm scale that is statistically insignificant, and more or less invisible. But wait, I then thought, consider the impact of 1000 pigeons dumping in the same spot over a period of time. That would certainly cause a more visible mark. But then of course one must also factor in the effects of rainfall and general weathering by wind and sun.

 

By this time, I was having horrible memories about those O level maths questions regarding half filled baths with taps left running and plugs which don't fit properly. I never could work those out, nor could I see why I should need to do so. After all, faced with such a situation, one would just turn off the tap and put the plug in properly. All of which means quite simply that there will be no **** on those poles.

[bigwordsmith]

That Flying Pig looks very smart Gilbert

re pigeon poop in telegraph poles, a little dab of pale grey paint will do the job nicely

[JeffP]

 

 

By this time, I was having horrible memories about those O level maths questions regarding half filled baths with taps left running and plugs which don't fit properly. I never could work those out, nor could I see why I should need to do so. After all, faced with such a situation, one would just turn off the tap and put the plug in properly.

 

Ah, yes...the era of maths for the OCD: "Let's see what's happening instead of doing something about it......."

 

Nowadays, odds on the answer will be somewhere on the page if you can be bothered to search for it.

[great northern]

Some more great photos Gilbert.

 

Re your first reproduction, I think you (the camera) are too close to the station, you could have done with moving back about 3 inches, and the loco could have come forward an inch. Your second attempt is spot on for camera position, just the loco is too far back again.

 

But that said, the fact that you can get so close to recreating the prototype shots just shows how good a model your layout is. By the time Phil's filled up the background with telegraph poles and wires, you'll never know the difference

 

Good stuff!

 

Al.

Hi Al,

 

I shifted the camera about a fair bit when trying to do these, but unfortunately what tends to happen is that a slightly different position improves some things, but causes other problems instead. I still have a coach waiting for you to pick it up dear chap, why not come and get it, then you can see the situation first hand!

[great northern]

Something remarkable has occurred. No, not a cure for locoholism, but at last a result at golf. Winner of my Division, four under nett 67, and handicap down by two shots.   And all that in a round which contained three full blooded shanks. If you don't know what one of those is, I can assure you you don't want to either. At last the graph which has showed nothing but a steady increase for the last four years has been reversed.   This may seem very trivial to non golfers, but it has made me feel very good this morning.

[bigwordsmith]

Well Done Gilbert - maybe you should give ole' Tiger some lessons!

[coachmann]

Sunday morning doodle....

 

[bigwordsmith]

Amazingly close Larry - speaks volusmes about PN's quality

[great northern]

Sunday morning doodle....

 

WEB Peterborough rebuild.jpgWEB Peterborough 1.jpg

Witchcraft, that's what it is   How did you move that loco Larry?  The power isn't even switched on, I've been up and checked.

[coachmann]

Witchcraft, that's what it is   How did you move that loco Larry?  The power isn't even switched on, I've been up and checked.

To do what I really wanted to do with your picture required Coral Draw but I no longer have it. I moved your loco by cutting it out and stretching it slightly. The starting point is your camera needs to be lower down to capture the perspective of the real photo and you need to shoot using a wider angle

[Baby Deltic]

Not for long though Mike. The Kings Cross suburban timetable was in such chaos that by late 59 Brush 2's were being drafted in and by mid 60 when I next went to London they had more or less taken over, about 35 of them at Finsbury park by then. All the D5300 series had gone to Scotland, the D6100's were probably still hidden under tarpaulins in New England yards, and most of the baby deltics had brewed themselves up pretty thoroughly.

The refurbished Baby Deltics were probably the best of the bunch by the mid to late 60s. The Brush 2's were having to be re-engined. Had they been a smaller class they would have been extinct by the early 70s like the BD's.

[jrg1]

The Brush 2s were heavier than the 90xx Deltics, and half the power.  They can be traced back to the early fifties, and a design produced by Brush for Ceylon-obsolete by the early sixties, and adhesion problems plus an unreliable Mirrlees engine made them a rather dubious investment.  Re-engining improved reliability, but they were still second rate.  The BDs were extensively rebuilt, and consequently performed well, but frankly having a high speed, high performance sophisticated engine in that application was rather an indulgence.  I think when rebuilt, they should have had a class 20 medium speed engine fitted-achieving some commonality with an exceptionally reliable and common locomotive class.

As for the class 21s, and North British main line diesels generally, it was a shame to see a great company remembered in terms of duds.

[Mallard60022]

I quite liked the '31's. I suppose that's because they were workaday machines. I never really saw the Deltics in daily service as I still lived down west, but have to say I admired them (and that lovely sound) whilst they were at speed. Watching them leaving Kings Cross, despite the exhaust) did not quite ever match up to the sight of the big Pacifics doing that.

Personally I believe the whole transition from steam to 'other traction' was a complete load of ill planned, and ill conceived nonsense. I will go no further as this has been dicussed for ever. 

However, I do have a smart little green and white Brush 2 with sound that, when rewheeled to OO, could get an outing on PN if requested.

Quackers.

[great northern]

Even at my advanced age, I can learn something new about myself. I am an eccentric. Now, I've never thought of myself in that way, but apparently I am.........and what's more, so are all of you who read this. Who says so? A Radio Times reviewer, a journalist. Well, if he or she says so, it must be right, mustn't it?  There was a programme tonight about sheds, garden type, owned by people our diligent journo describes in this way :-" Brits have always taken a peculiar pride in their nation of eccentrics, from trainspotters to twitchers, model railway enthusiasts to stargazers." So there it is, eccentric we all are, presumably as we don't share the same interests as this ******. I didn't think my contempt for our wonderful media to get any deeper, but it does. You notice he gets trainspotters in there as well, but no mention of anoraks or badges. Perhaps he ran out of space. Plenty between his ears though.

 

Here endeth the rant.

[coachmann]

Even at my advanced age, I can learn something new about myself. I am an eccentric. Now, I've never thought of myself in that way, but apparently I am.........and what's more, so are all of you who read this. Who says so? A Radio Times reviewer, a journalist. Well, if he or she says so, it must be right, mustn't it?  There was a programme tonight about sheds, garden type, owned by people our diligent journo describes in this way :-" Brits have always taken a peculiar pride in their nation of eccentrics, from trainspotters to twitchers, model railway enthusiasts to stargazers." So there it is, eccentric we all are, presumably as we don't share the same interests as this ******. I didn't think my contempt for our wonderful media to get any deeper, but it does. You notice he gets trainspotters in there as well, but no mention of anoraks or badges. Perhaps he ran out of space. Plenty between his ears though.

 

Here endeth the rant.

TV types are in the entertainment business but people have let them think they are vitally important. They are now't but hacks, nothing more nothing less.

[jrg1]

I quite liked the '31's. I suppose that's because they were workaday machines. I never really saw the Deltics in daily service as I still lived down west, but have to say I admired them (and that lovely sound) whilst they were at speed. Watching them leaving Kings Cross, despite the exhaust) did not quite ever match up to the sight of the big Pacifics doing that.

Personally I believe the whole transition from steam to 'other traction' was a complete load of ill planned, and ill conceived nonsense. I will go no further as this has been dicussed for ever. 

However, I do have a smart little green and white Brush 2 with sound that, when rewheeled to OO, could get an outing on PN if requested.

Quackers.

As an aside regarding the modernisation programme, a rail engineer pointed out to me that BR could have built under licence the New South Wales Government Railways diesel classes-all easily adapted to the BR loading gauges, with the same ALCO engine differing only in cylinder numbers to give a range of output, and all models proven in far harsher operating conditions.  Far less expensive, Far more reliable, far easier to maintain.

Instead, the situation was reached whereby the likes of the class 22 had to have a heavy overhaul at Swindon BEFORE entering service, and we had the sight of class 28s being towed to the scrapyard by steam engines.  Apparently, the modernisation was regarded as an opportunity for British companies to profit, and not let the USA dominate.  Fast forward to the class 58, and GEC offering to install a more reliable American engine, and fast forward further to the class 66 and variants.  In retrospect, a shambles.  

[Mallard60022]

Even at my advanced age, I can learn something new about myself. I am an eccentric. Now, I've never thought of myself in that way, but apparently I am.........and what's more, so are all of you who read this. Who says so? A Radio Times reviewer, a journalist. Well, if he or she says so, it must be right, mustn't it?  There was a programme tonight about sheds, garden type, owned by people our diligent journo describes in this way :-" Brits have always taken a peculiar pride in their nation of eccentrics, from trainspotters to twitchers, model railway enthusiasts to stargazers." So there it is, eccentric we all are, presumably as we don't share the same interests as this ******. I didn't think my contempt for our wonderful media to get any deeper, but it does. You notice he gets trainspotters in there as well, but no mention of anoraks or badges. Perhaps he ran out of space. Plenty between his ears though.

 

Here endeth the rant.

I started watching it but it wasn't about 66s so I threw the TV out of the window.

Quackers.

[joppyuk1]

TV types are in the entertainment business but people have let them think they are vitally important. They are now't but hacks, nothing more nothing less.

I musn't say too much, MrsJ likes George. I can't say I liked the model railway, too crowded for my liking, Can't wait till the garden railway one turns up in a later episode. 

[Fat Controller]

As an aside regarding the modernisation programme, a rail engineer pointed out to me that BR could have built under licence the New South Wales Government Railways diesel classes-all easily adapted to the BR loading gauges, with the same ALCO engine differing only in cylinder numbers to give a range of output, and all models proven in far harsher operating conditions.  Far less expensive, Far more reliable, far easier to maintain.

Instead, the situation was reached whereby the likes of the class 22 had to have a heavy overhaul at Swindon BEFORE entering service, and we had the sight of class 28s being towed to the scrapyard by steam engines.  Apparently, the modernisation was regarded as an opportunity for British companies to profit, and not let the USA dominate.  Fast forward to the class 58, and GEC offering to install a more reliable American engine, and fast forward further to the class 66 and variants.  In retrospect, a shambles.  

There was the minor problem of a lack of foreign exchange to fund imports post WW2, a situation which lasted into the 1960s, and a perceived need to support British engineering for strategic reasons. Britain was not the only country in this position; France also opted for home-produced diesels against imports from North America, despite the success of the 1-4-1R steam locos and Baldwin A1A-A1A diesels that had been supplied as part of Marshall Aid.