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great northern

Peterborough North

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2 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Wasn’t the return empties of the Aberdeen in the middle of the day? That should give an excuse to read n the blue spots.

That's what I thought Andy, but I can't see it on the WTT.

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10 hours ago, great northern said:

That's what I thought Andy, but I can't see it on the WTT.

I’m sure I’ve seen a picture of it but I can’t locate it now and I can’t remember which year, so not much use - sorry! They must have gone back north, otherwise there’d have been a big pile of blue spots in King’s Cross!

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Gilbert,

 

I've done a bit more research on the Aberdeen return fish. This is a useful post from Brian Macdermott which claims a 1205 departure from King's Cross for the return. From other posts which prompted this it does seem to be missing from the WTT.

 

Andy

 

 

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53 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Gilbert,

 

I've done a bit more research on the Aberdeen return fish. This is a useful post from Brian Macdermott which claims a 1205 departure from King's Cross for the return. From other posts which prompted this it does seem to be missing from the WTT.

 

Andy

 

 

I think I remember Peter Coster mentioning it in one of the Books of the GN, and I think he said 1130 off KX, so that seems about right. Through PN some time between 1.30pm and 2.30pm looks good.

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Hello Gilbert and everyone

 

Trains Illustrated May and June 1958 contain a 2-part article entitled Day-Trip to Grimsby which might be useful.

 

The subjects of Fish Trains and Milk Trains are crying out for books to be written.

 

Brian

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4 hours ago, great northern said:

A quick question. Would a feature in a magazine concentrating on the kind of images I've been showing for the last few days be of interest? We are all used to the "normal" articles, very much train focused as they are. So, might something like this be worthwhile?

 

I'm interested in all aspects Gilbert but a magazine article focussing on the why's and wherefores of PNs buildings and some of the hidden corners would be very welcome.

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2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Gilbert and everyone

 

Trains Illustrated May and June 1958 contain a 2-part article entitled Day-Trip to Grimsby which might be useful.

 

The subjects of Fish Trains and Milk Trains are crying out for books to be written.

 

Brian

Hello Brian

 

I do have those two TIs. which are interesting, but I'm afraid don't help with this, as the blue spot vans were only used on the Scottish traffic, from what I have read.  I also found an article in an old Steam World magazine, but that didn't mention blue spot traffic at all, and frankly seemed a bit dodgy in parts anyway.

 

As Andy says, they must have been returned whence they came, and fairly regularly. Perhaps they were run as required, but even so I'd expect to find it in the WTT.

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1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Gilbert

 

It was more for those who might be interested in the articles.

 

Brian

My apologies Brian.

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On 07/11/2019 at 22:13, great northern said:

The lovely part of Lincolnshire in which you are so privileged to live, has, statistically one of the lowest annual rainfalls in the country. It's just that you happen to be getting a lot of it at once. My Dad was a drainage engineer, so I know that, you see.

Hi

 

From the weather station in my back garden about 3 miles from Clive as the crow flies. June 2019 was very wet but most of the time its not too bad.

 

Capture.PNG.82a8d247e96e4e4776ade61b3d79b78c.PNG

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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1 hour ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

From the weather station in my back garden about 3 miles from Clive as the crow flies. June 2019 was very wet but most of the time its not too bad.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/Capture.PNG.82a8d247e96e4e4776ade61b3d79b78c.PNG

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Yes but no but yes but no but....Paul lives uphill to me. The first contour line on an OS map of our area goes through the local Co-op and that is a good five miles inland. See we get the run off form where Paul lives, and the Wolds.

048a.jpg.1419a1fc4ba1316f52ccb42b1b547154.jpg

The overflowing dyke at the bottom of our land in June.

049a.jpg.7147b81275eb155b6b80c7d06bee0ad3.jpg

No I am not going any further and have the water go over me boots.

 

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My dad said that annual rainfall in Lincs was always between 18 and 24 inches per annum, which was far less than further west. However, I well remember that in the mid to late 50s he was often called out at night to flooding crises, including some in the city of Lincoln itself. They did a lot of work to remedy that, but the water then has to go somewhere else, and as there seems to be so much more of it now, problems abound.

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I spent my entire working trying to deal with all aspects of flooding, both river and tidal. I say trying because it is virtually an insoluble problem. Sort out one person's problem and you invariably make another worse. People are the real problem, trying to live and work where they shouldn't. I have had a house flooded so I know what people are going through.

 

Stephen

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It maybe looks better as a background; it seems to be the kind of background view that looks OK from different angles without the perspective being wrong, but it's a pity to lose the distinctive power station.  Would you be able to keep the power station view to the right and use the new picture to extend the backscene to the left?  Looking south from the real Peterborough station the lines rise to the Nene bridge which is effectively on the skyline; I don't think buildings to the south are really visible?  

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18 hours ago, StephenB said:

I spent my entire working trying to deal with all aspects of flooding, both river and tidal. I say trying because it is virtually an insoluble problem. Sort out one person's problem and you invariably make another worse. People are the real problem, trying to live and work where they shouldn't. I have had a house flooded so I know what people are going through.

 

Stephen

Stephen

 

I thoroughly agree. Living on a flood plane and excessive impermeable surfaces is asking for trouble. If you choose to live there, have a house that will float.

 

Lloyd

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Gilbert

 

New backscene looks better than nothing, and in that sense looks good. Losing the power station though is not realistic. I can't remember what could be seen in the distance beyond Crescent Bridge except for the power station, but after the river bridge it was embankment over Oundle Road and then, I think in cutting under London Road. I am inclined to agree with 31A.

 

Lloyd

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On 10/11/2019 at 11:48, BMacdermott said:

Hello Gilbert and everyone

 

Trains Illustrated May and June 1958 contain a 2-part article entitled Day-Trip to Grimsby which might be useful.

 

The subjects of Fish Trains and Milk Trains are crying out for books to be written.

 

Brian

David Larkin has written a couple of books on Non-Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock, which are worth looking out for. Volume 2, in particular, has a lot of photos of passenger-rated stock for fish and milk workings.

'Blue Spot' stock was drawn from BR-built vans , built to a BR design that was based on an earlier LNER type. All were fitted with roller-bearings. The fleet totalled some 500 vehicles. Next down the 'pecking order' were the LNER-designed 12'6" and 15' wheelbase Insulated Fish Vans, then the non-insulated stock. Right at the bottom were various minerals used to carry fish offal for cat food.

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Let's go back to the prototype, while remembering that in this area my layout is nowhere near being prototypically accurate. Here is a lovely photo, copyright of Andrew C Ingram, and not to be further reproduced please. In its own right, it is one of my very favourite PN images, but also very helpful in assessing what would/could be seen looking south.

 

This must, I think, have been taken from Crescent Bridge.

 

 

img20191112_10432845.jpg.5554c2039b6e6ed10b669611bd323abb.jpg

So, from right to left we have the chord down to East station, then the carriage sidings, and from this angle, behind them is the chute across to the power station. The power station itself is still off scene further left, so I think it would not be in view when looking under the bridge.

 

We also have to factor in my totally incorrect, but operationally vital, sharp curve, which means that the power station would be on the inside of that curve, not the outside. That's why I'm thinking that the end of the carriage sidings is as close as I can get to the real thing, possibly with the start of the chute positioned behind, and one or two brickworks chimneys, as in the image above. Then somehow a mist of steam across the whole thing would be even better. How to do it? Suggestions welcome.

 

Anyway, over to you again. This photo, incidentally, got Tony Wright very animated, as the fifth car in the Scotsman is a kitchen car, which is not shown in any of the official formations for the train. It is definitely summer of 58, we are agreed, so should my Scotsman include a RK?  I think not, as this may have been a one off, and I prefer to stick with the everyday.

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Gilbert

 

Looking at the photo of the prototype, from under Crescent bridge you would not see further than the carriage sidings/power station, due to the way the land lies, and most of the power station would be hidden, so only the chute to the power station might be visible. From the station area itself, I think you would see very little beyond Crescent Bridge as the bridge itself would be in the way. This would apply even more the nearer you were to Spital Bridge. How do you think a backscene with the power station chute at the extreme left end to compromise between its true position and the unprototype (but essential) curve on the main line, and fill the rest of the space with Nene Sidings, probably increased in number to balance the other compromise. You would only need sky above the sidings and chute, and I am sure that you can produce a suitable smoke effect from the brickworks not much further South that hung over that area.

 

At that end of the station, I was more familiar with River Lane, which ran down the down side of the line to the river, and was generally lower than track level. It was a favorite short cut of mine to the river bridge - except when the river flooded.

 

Thanks again for sharing this wonderful model, and so much information, with us.

 

Lloyd

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