Peterborough North

[davidw]

5 minutes ago, great northern said:

He was supported in his view by Mr Barnatt. I can't believe it, and when we get not one but two, and the W1 as well,I suspect that I have been in hibernation for three months, and woken up on April 1st.

 

I feel that the very least I can do is to support Hornby by purchasing at least one or two, if not more. Though of course I don't need any more. I fear that I may have recaught locoholism from that nice Mr Mortimore, who is obviously suffering from it at present.

Ditto

[Clive Mortimore]

1 minute ago, great northern said:

He was supported in his view by Mr Barnatt. I can't believe it, and when we get not one but two, and the W1 as well,I suspect that I have been in hibernation for three months, and woken up on April 1st.

 

I feel that the very least I can do is to support Hornby by purchasing at least one or two, if not more. Though of course I don't need any more. I fear that I may have recaught locoholism from that nice Mr Mortimore, who is obviously suffering from it at present.

Talking of which, and you might be able to advise me, I have taken delivery of a very handsome Britannia. It will become 70047, the one with no name. Well the advice I am after is regarding the rear pony truck wheels. I don't like the idea of flangeless wheels and they do supply a set of flanged wheels for "display purposes only". If I were to fit them would the loco be able to go round my 3 ft curves? What do you do regarding Hornby's flangeless trailing pony trucks on their pacifics?

[Oldddudders]

I have mentioned before that the subtleties of distinction among pacifics by Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn, while of enormous import to LNER et seq afficionadoes, is rather lost on many of us more remote from the faith. All we see are large, handsome locos that look the biz. These will sell.  

[great northern]

1 hour ago, bigwordsmith said:

 

Gosh - they're going to be busy - W1 and A2/2?

And A2/3 Peter, don't forget that one. Honeyway for you, I would think.

[great northern]

4 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Talking of which, and you might be able to advise me, I have taken delivery of a very handsome Britannia. It will become 70047, the one with no name. Well the advice I am after is regarding the rear pony truck wheels. I don't like the idea of flangeless wheels and they do supply a set of flanged wheels for "display purposes only". If I were to fit them would the loco be able to go round my 3 ft curves? What do you do regarding Hornby's flangeless trailing pony trucks on their pacifics?

I leave as is, Clive. I don't find the flangeless ones to be noticeable unless you look quite hard and up close.  Much better too when getting things on the rails, if you eyes are not what they were, like mine.  Far less stressful than trying to get a Bachmann A1's on track while still keeping the front bogie and driving wheels on there as well.

[great northern]

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I have mentioned before that the subtleties of distinction among pacifics by Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn, while of enormous import to LNER et seq afficionadoes, is rather lost on many of us more remote from the faith. All we see are large, handsome locos that look the biz. These will sell.  

One of the reasons this announcement is so amazing to me is that Hornby will also have to deal with the differences between individual locos. I'm about to remind myself of the differences between the A2/2s. Only six of them, but hardly any two were the same. A2/3s are less of a minefield, but there are still one or two traps for the unwary.

 

It just shows how far we have come that Hornby will even contemplate this. I remember Tony Wright telling me about his sales pitch to Simon Kohler quite a few years back. Apparently Simon was very taken by the evocative names, but became rapidly less enthusiastic when the detail differences were explained. I'm sure Tony will have had an advisory role in the making of this decision, so one can expect that Hornby are going to get these absolutely right.

 

I must say, Ian, that I'm not accustomed to seeing Thompson and handsome mentioned in the same paragraph though. And all of these look much less alike than those to be found on another railway too. I was going to add "so there", but I won't.

[thegreenhowards]

53 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Talking of which, and you might be able to advise me, I have taken delivery of a very handsome Britannia. It will become 70047, the one with no name. Well the advice I am after is regarding the rear pony truck wheels. I don't like the idea of flangeless wheels and they do supply a set of flanged wheels for "display purposes only". If I were to fit them would the loco be able to go round my 3 ft curves? What do you do regarding Hornby's flangeless trailing pony trucks on their pacifics?

Clive, I fit the flanged wheels and have no probs on Gresley Jn (min radius generally 36” with the odd 30” for curved points). I have to refit the unflanged wheels to run at my club which has a minimum radius of c.26”. This is a pain which means that many stay unflanged and as Gilbert says I don’t really notice and they’re easier to put on the track. 
 

Andy

[bigwordsmith]

Just been perusing Hornby's site ref the new models - Damn I'm going to have to spend some pennies this year!

 

I noticed on the pic of the A2/3 it seems to have an awfully big crack in the front fame between the wheels of the front bogie - shome mishtake surely?

 

 

[great northern]

5 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Just been perusing Hornby's site ref the new models - Damn I'm going to have to spend some pennies this year!

 

I noticed on the pic of the A2/3 it seems to have an awfully big crack in the front fame between the wheels of the front bogie - shome mishtake surely?

 

 

It does look like that Peter, I agree. However, as there is a bit in the middle which appears to be proud of the surface and casting a shadow, I think it may well be wiring of some kind.

[bigwordsmith]

6 minutes ago, great northern said:

It does look like that Peter, I agree. However, as there is a bit in the middle which appears to be proud of the surface and casting a shadow, I think it may well be wiring of some kind.

 

Well Spotted Gilbert, and Happy New Year

 

I Didn't see that until it got blown up by RMWeb - the original on the Hornby site which is much smaller than my screen grab looks broken - No doubt Mr.Kohler is anticipating a lot of sales on these. It's either a very astute or very risky move!

[Denbridge]

34 minutes ago, great northern said:

It does look like that Peter, I agree. However, as there is a bit in the middle which appears to be proud of the surface and casting a shadow, I think it may well be wiring of some kind.

Blowing the picture up,  it's a lubricating pipe. 

[great northern]

 I have dredged  what passes for my memory, and consulted some books, in order to see which of the six engines of A2/2 can be properly modelled from what Hornby are offering. Here is a rough chart showing the position in 1958.

 

60501. Rimmed chimney, Dia 118 boiler Flat cab front  New type tender. OK for 1952 through to withdrawal.

 

60502    As 60501

 

60503  Rimmed chimney  Dia 106A boiler original wedge front cab  Streamline tender

 

60504    As 60503

 

60505   No beading on chimney in 58,    Dia 117 boiler with dummy "banjo" dome  Flat front cab  Streamline tender.

 

60506 Both  plain and rimmed chimney on photos dated 58!  Dia 118 boiler  Flat front cab  Streamline tender.

 

 

Note 60505 has a rimmed chimney when on the scrap line in 1959!

 

So, 60503/4 are out altogether.  60502 should be possible from 60501.  60505 is interesting. Photos seem to show the dome slightly further forward than on Dia 118 boilers, so it may not be "right"  to change it to 60506.

60505/6 from 60501 would require at least a tender change.

 

I have probably only dipped a toe into the minefield.

[Denbridge]

Just now, great northern said:

 I have dredged  what passes for my memory, and consulted some books, in order to see which of the six engines of A2/2 can be properly modelled from what Hornby are offering. Here is a rough chart showing the position in 1958.

 

60501. Rimmed chimney, Dia 118 boiler Flat cab front  New type tender. OK for 1952 through to withdrawal.

 

60502    As 60501

 

60503  Rimmed chimney  Dia 106A boiler original wedge front cab  Streamline tender

 

60504    As 60503

 

60505   No beading on chimney in 58,    Dia 117 boiler with dummy "banjo" dome  Flat front cab  Streamline tender.

 

60506 Both  plain and rimmed chimney on photos dated 58!  Dia 118 boiler  Flat front cab  Streamline tender.

 

 

Note 60505 has a rimmed chimney when on the scrap line in 1959!

 

So, 60503/4 are out altogether.  60502 should be possible from 60501.  60505 is interesting. Photos seem to show the dome slightly further forward than on Dia 118 boilers, so it may not be "right"  to change it to 60506.

60505/6 from 60501 would require at least a tender change.

 

I have probably only dipped a toe into the minefield.

That surely depends on what extra tooling Hornby are going to use. They've shown in the past they can tool up to create many variables.

[31A]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Talking of which, and you might be able to advise me, I have taken delivery of a very handsome Britannia. It will become 70047, the one with no name. Well the advice I am after is regarding the rear pony truck wheels. I don't like the idea of flangeless wheels and they do supply a set of flanged wheels for "display purposes only". If I were to fit them would the loco be able to go round my 3 ft curves? What do you do regarding Hornby's flangeless trailing pony trucks on their pacifics?

 

I'm with Gilbert on this, I leave the flangeless ones in.  Partly because my locos have to be put on and off the rails in the fiddle yard quite frequently, which is much easier if they're effectively 4-6-0s.  For the Bachmann ones I have to use a Hornby Re-railer, which takes up space in the yard.  However I do think it's easier to get away with flangeless wheels on the Gresley Pacifics as the rear frames cover most of the trailing wheels.  I have got a Brit somewhere (it doesn't get out much - you've just reminded me of it) and I do remember thinking the flangeless wheels looked more odd on it, as more of the wheel is visible.

 

[bigwordsmith]

I put the flanges on my Brit, Clan and Duke, all get round Peco 75 medium

points with no problems 

[CUTLER2579]

1 hour ago, great northern said:

 I have dredged  what passes for my memory, and consulted some books, in order to see which of the six engines of A2/2 can be properly modelled from what Hornby are offering. Here is a rough chart showing the position in 1958.

 

60501. Rimmed chimney, Dia 118 boiler Flat cab front  New type tender. OK for 1952 through to withdrawal.

 

60502    As 60501

 

60503  Rimmed chimney  Dia 106A boiler original wedge front cab  Streamline tender

 

60504    As 60503

 

60505   No beading on chimney in 58,    Dia 117 boiler with dummy "banjo" dome  Flat front cab  Streamline tender.

 

60506 Both  plain and rimmed chimney on photos dated 58!  Dia 118 boiler  Flat front cab  Streamline tender.

 

 

Note 60505 has a rimmed chimney when on the scrap line in 1959!

 

So, 60503/4 are out altogether.  60502 should be possible from 60501.  60505 is interesting. Photos seem to show the dome slightly further forward than on Dia 118 boilers, so it may not be "right"  to change it to 60506.

60505/6 from 60501 would require at least a tender change.

 

I have probably only dipped a toe into the minefield.

 

Gilbert, I was under the impression that 60506 "The Wolf" was never fitted with a Rimmed Chimney. In fact I have an O gauge Model of it and was going to fit a new Rimmed Chimney when a learned friend told me it would be wrong as it never received one .

[great northern]

1 hour ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Gilbert, I was under the impression that 60506 "The Wolf" was never fitted with a Rimmed Chimney. In fact I have an O gauge Model of it and was going to fit a new Rimmed Chimney when a learned friend told me it would be wrong as it never received one .

That's what I thought Derek, but there is a photo on page153 of the Book of the A1 and A2 Pacifics by Coster, which shows it in the repair shop at New England with a chimney that looks like it has a definite rim. The photo above is also of the Wolf,  it clearly doesn't have one in that, and the two look quite different to my eyes.

[great northern]

3 hours ago, Denbridge said:

That surely depends on what extra tooling Hornby are going to use. They've shown in the past they can tool up to create many variables.

 Agreed, but what I'm saying is that 503/4 can't be correctly renumbered from the announced tooling, assuming Hornby will get it right, which I'm pretty sure they will.

 

Then there are the economics of the thing. This is, as others have said, a bit of a gamble anyway. How many people are likely to buy more than one?

[thegreenhowards]

6 hours ago, bigwordsmith said:

Damn I'm going to have to spend some pennies this year!

 

 

I suspect you can put your card away until next year. They’re saying Dec2020 and how often do they deliver on time?!

[great northern]

44 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

I suspect you can put your card away until next year. They’re saying Dec2020 and how often do they deliver on time?!

Hornby website earlier this evening, before it crashed, gave arrival as Winter 20/21 so next Spring is probably more realistic. Look on the bright side, before 0900 today we weren't really expecting to see any at all.

[Tony Wright]

Just to clarify a point or two on the A2/2s (having helped Hornby in a small way with the research on these models; and the A2/3s), the 'rimmed' chimney is the original, and the 'lipped' chimney is the one which they all eventually got; with the exception of 60506. 60505 only got it for the last few months of its life in 1959. The 'rimmed' chimneys were little more than double stovepipes, with just a strip of beading around the rim. I seem to recall reading that they were fabricated (I could have got this wrong), rather than cast, which the lipped chimneys were. The originals were better at smoke-lifting than the more aesthetically-pleasing lipped ones. 

 

During the research, Paul Isles (Hornby's designer) and I concluded that at any one time, no two A2/2s were exactly the same. Some of the differences were subtle - positions and style of sandbox fillers, and the shapes of vacuum exhaust ejectors for example. 

 

I should be seeing the 'proving' models before long (a real privilege) and I'll comment on Wright Writes as to what they look like exactly.

 

Regards to all,

 

Tony. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a further point

[great northern]

18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Just to clarify a point or two on the A2/2s (having helped Hornby in a small way with the research on these models; and the A2/3s), the 'rimmed' chimney is the original, and the 'lipped' chimney is the one which they all eventually got; with the exception of 60506. 60505 only got it for the last few months of its life in 1959. The 'rimmed' chimneys were little more than double stovepipes, with just a strip of beading around the rim. I seem to recall reading that they were fabricated (I could have got this wrong), rather than cast, which the lipped chimneys were. The originals were better at smoke-lifting than the more aesthetically-pleasing lipped ones. 

 

During the research, Paul Isles (Hornby's designer) and I concluded that at any one time, no two A2/2s were exactly the same. Some of the differences were subtle - positions and style of sandbox fillers, and the shapes of vacuum exhaust ejectors for example. 

 

I should be seeing the 'proving' models before long (a real privilege) and I'll comment on Wright Writes as to what they look like exactly.

 

Regards to all,

 

Tony. 

I hope I'm OK posting these so closely cropped. Is it just that the camera angle on the second one shows up the strip of beading you are referring to?  It looked so different to the first one when I compared them on the page.

 

 

 

This one looks to have a more flared shape, to my eye.

 

Thanks for the work you will no doubt have done in persuading Hornby to take a punt on these, though I know you have mixed feelings about it.

[great northern]

Now to tonight's photos at PN.  60508 again, same shot, but with some stronger light. What a difference!

 

 

 

D209 has travelled a little further.

 

 

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, great northern said:

I hope I'm OK posting these so closely cropped. Is it just that the camera angle on the second one shows up the strip of beading you are referring to?  It looked so different to the first one when I compared them on the page.

 

 

 

This one looks to have a more flared shape, to my eye.

 

Thanks for the work you will no doubt have done in persuading Hornby to take a punt on these, though I know you have mixed feelings about it.

 

Well - if anything indicates that 60506 had a cast, flared chimney at some point, that second photo does!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Woodcock29]

20 minutes ago, great northern said:

I hope I'm OK posting these so closely cropped. Is it just that the camera angle on the second one shows up the strip of beading you are referring to?  It looked so different to the first one when I compared them on the page.

 

 

 

This one looks to have a more flared shape, to my eye.

 

Thanks for the work you will no doubt have done in persuading Hornby to take a punt on these, though I know you have mixed feelings about it.

Hi Gilbert and others

I have had a very close look at the original photo as published in the book and I would say its actually only a rimmed chimney. The underside of the small rim is significantly darker than the rest of the chimney. The angle of the photo makes it look as though its flared more than it is and I only got this book recently at our last annual BRMA Convention in Canberra so its already proven useful despite the fact it doesn't really suit my pre-war period. But then you can never have too many books on eastern subjects!

 

Andrew