Steam Loco Recognition

[Joe 90]

Is there a book available that deals with steam locomotive recognition similar to the modern day Traction Recognition by Colin Marsden.

[AMJ]

I have a book at home that is of a similar format that was produced by David & Charles IIRC listing All of the loco classes giving brief details of number ranges and quantity built (with photos). I have one book that has LMS group and a large volume that has the big 4 and standard

 

Or this might be of interest http://www.amazon.co...8/dp/0860935930

[bike2steam]

Is there a book available that deals with steam locomotive recognition similar to the modern day Traction Recognition by Colin Marsden.

 

Being a steam only enthusiast I don't know the Marsden book. In the 1960's,70's, and 80's H.C. Casserley's book 'Steam Locomotives Of British Railways' was published in great quantity by both Hamlyn, and the RBC. Still many copies can be found secondhand for a couple of quid each, and very useful.

 

As this;-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Steam-Locomotives-British-Railways-H-C-Casserley-/330397446095?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item4ced38efcf

but you can get cheaper off Amazon.

[DaveF]

If you want details of earlier locos Ian Allan published a series of 4 books under the general title "Locomotives at the Grouping"

1 Great Western

2 Southern

3 LMS

4 LNER

 

Basically a list of classes, main dimensions, numbers, photographs of sample classes as existed in 1923.

 

Sample ISBN for the LMS volume 07110 0554 0 (1974 edition) I think they have been out of print for a long time but are quite cheap second hand.

 

There was also an Observer's book, Railway Locomotives of Britain. I think this has run to many editions, with different locos! Again available second hand quite cheaply, but check the edition and what is in it.

 

I regularly use both the above.

 

I think Ian Allan also published a book "The Last Steam Locomotives of British Railways", photographs by Ransome Wallis which was mainly loco portraits.

 

If you want more details of steam locos of specific companies many have been published, eg Great Central Locos Vol 1 & 2, I think published by Irwell, An Illustrated Review of Midland Locos Vol 1,2,3,4 by Essery and Jenkinson published by Wild Swan, Midland Locomotives Vol 1-4 by Summerson, published by Irwell, etc etc!

 

David

 

PS There are also a lot of recent books, some are sometimes available in outlets such as "The Works" detailing preserved steam locos.

 

David

[bike2steam]

 

There was also an Observer's book, Railway Locomotives of Britain. I think this has run to many editions, with different locos! Again available second hand quite cheaply, but check the edition and what is in it.

 

 

 

Also by H.C. but just a 'toned down' version of the title I mentioned earlier, which is about the best for concise info.

[Buhar]

Really there ain't no such animal. There were so many types, designers moved company and brought their their style with them (eg either Drummond) or else the company's established style carried on (Lambie and McIntosh on the Caley). Then there were variations within a class that might be indetectable, such as number of superheater tubes or a 500 gallons bigger tender and those that changed the whole look of the loco (belpaire fireboxes, domed boilers, wholesale rebuilding).

 

Just look on here or read one of the detailing features in the model railway press to see how hard it is to be sure what a loco looked like at any particular time. The locospotter type books give a good overview and official class designations, but in many cases you really need to be really familiar with a class to be able to look at a photo and identify the subject. Of course the big names and distinctive designs are straightforward but beyond that you need to keep reading and looking at photos to build up your knowledge.

[coachmann]

Those of us interested in steam have been collecting together books since the 1950s. If I were to cost them out today they would cost a fortune, so getting all the info together about steam locos is no quick or easy task.

 

For LNER locos, a decent starting point is the compact series of RCTS books. Shame nothing similar was done for the other Big Four companies and the absorbed companies.

[Joe 90]

Many thanks to everyone who replied to my request and I can now appreciate the difficulty in compiling such a book.

I shall certainly take a look at the suggested books and see if they fit my requirements.

I am mainly concerned with steam locos that ran in the southern region, mainly on the Waterloo to Portsmouth line.

Also being a newcomer to the railway hobby it would be nice to see the differences between the classes.

 

Many thanks once again.

[Nick Holliday]

Those of us interested in steam have been collecting together books since the 1950s. If I were to cost them out today they would cost a fortune, so getting all the info together about steam locos is no quick or easy task.

 

For LNER locos, a decent starting point is the compact series of RCTS books. Shame nothing similar was done for the other Big Four companies and the absorbed companies.

The RCTS also published a complete series covering the GWR locomotives, together with all those from the absorbed companies that made it into GWR ownership. They also covered even more comprehensively the four Southern pre-group companies and the SR/BR locos too, all to the same format. They have also dealt with the Highland Railway and Great Northern in great detail, more recently, in a larger size and I believe are working through the LMS - I know they have already done the diesels.

There is also a Locomotive Compendium (Southern) that came out in May, but I have no idea what it contains.

[coachmann]

Mant thanks for this info Nick. I had no idea the RCTS had published to much work and it does make me wonder if they have been widely publicised, or perhaps I'm buying the wrong type of magazines....

 

Larry G.

[Nick Holliday]

Larry

 

The problem is that they were published some time ago, before the LNER series really got off the ground. The GWR volumes, apart from the final statistical analysis, came out betweeen 1952 and the early sixties, although some were reprinted in the 1970's, and the various Southern books appeared from the mid-sixties to 1975, although the three SECR ones were enlarged and reprinted in the eighties. As you say, you really need to have been buying books over the last fifty years or so, or have a deep ebay pocket.

[bike2steam]

All true enough, but as i read it, the original question was for a book on general steam loco (BR) recognition, not necessarily detailed super info, just to outline each basic class for as little expense as possible.

[The Stationmaster]

All true enough, but as i read it, the original question was for a book on general steam loco (BR) recognition, not necessarily detailed super info, just to outline each basic class for as little expense as possible.

 

In which case I would go for the Casserley volume mentioned above as it is organised by company.

 

The Ransome-Wallis book is also good but is organised by wheel arrangement which might make it a little easier to use if you are starting from knowing nothing more about a loco than an uncaptioned picture and the wheel arrangement.

[Joe 90]

I have been looking at the various books suggested by you all but I can't seem to find the books that RCTS published as Nick mentioned. I don't suppose anyone would have the titles of these books so I could investigate further?

 

Also a big thankyou to you all for answering my plea.

[Nick Holliday]

If you go to the RCTS website around here http://www.rcts.org.uk/shop/publications/archive.htm they list the various publications they have produced over the years. Many have been out of print for thirty years or so, so are hard to get hold of, but do appear occasionally on ebay and in Midland Counties second hand lists, to name but one secnd-hand book seller. They are offering some bargains at the moment - the wonderful GNR locos as a four volume set for less than I paid for one volume, for example.

As others have said, I would go for the H C Casserley volume of British Railways locomotives, if yuo can find it, as there are photos of every class that survived until 1948. It was a revelation to me when I first got hold of it - it is almost impossible to conceive of the variety of locos then in service, and the number of pre-grouping survivors. A bit let down by the quality of the reproduction of the numerous photos, but it is comprehensive and you get all the numbering, plus one or two gems like the 4-5-0 Manor that never got off the drawing board.

[Oldddudders]

Many thanks to everyone who replied to my request and I can now appreciate the difficulty in compiling such a book.

I shall certainly take a look at the suggested books and see if they fit my requirements.

I am mainly concerned with steam locos that ran in the southern region, mainly on the Waterloo to Portsmouth line.

Also being a newcomer to the railway hobby it would be nice to see the differences between the classes.

 

Many thanks once again.

I think your search may become slightly easier - and cheaper! - now we know the era and locale for which you need more info. The Portsmouth Direct became an electric railway on July 4th 1937, and thereafter only freight services would normally have been steam-worked over the route between Woking and Havant. However, the Waterloo - Woking section continued seeing steam traction for another 30 years, until July 9th 1967, these being the West of England and Bournemouth and Weymouth services. There was also a steam shed at Guildford, which I suspect closed on 3rd January 1965, when the Tonbridge - Reading route converted to diesel multiple units. The RCTS books already mentioned are pretty comprehensive in their detail - I only have Bradley's three volumes on LBSCR, but he also wrote the LSWR equivalents, I think - but the Ian Allan pair of "Locomotives at the Grouping No 1 Southern Railway" and "BR Steam Locomotives From Nationalisation to Modernisation No 2 Southern Region" should give you all the locos in question - with one exception, the BR Standard classes (locos with 5-figure numbers starting with 7, 8 or 9) some of which were quite common in the area from the early '50s onwards. I think the Internet can probably supply you with pics & details of the latter classes.

[Nick Holliday]

To add to Old Dudders list, you might find J H Russell's A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives tome of interest. Although well out of print, it was a favourite with the Railway Book Club and often appears second hand. It is a substantial volume and, if it were currently available, would set you back over £30 or more. The only down-side is that it doesn't cover the BR Standards.

[craigwelsh]

The RCTS booklets do turn up sometimes, I found:

Part 8 - Modern Passenger Classes

Part 11 - Rail Motor Vehicles and Internal Combustion Locomotives

 

in a bookshop in York after Scalefour North for £4 each and i'd already got Part 7 - Dean‘s Larger Tender Engines for a couple of £2 at a show once.

http://www.rcts.org.uk/shop/publications/archive_series.htm

 

It would have been easier if i'd been born before the 80s though!

[The Stationmaster]

The RCTS booklets do turn up sometimes, I found:

Part 8 - Modern Passenger Classes

Part 11 - Rail Motor Vehicles and Internal Combustion Locomotives

 

in a bookshop in York after Scalefour North for £4 each and i'd already got Part 7 - Dean‘s Larger Tender Engines for a couple of £2 at a show once.

http://www.rcts.org.uk/shop/publications/archive_series.htm

 

It would have been easier if i'd been born before the 80s though!

 

Or not - I only bothered with a couple of parts back then but, after a reasonable find in a bookshop have set out to complete the series and now need only Parts 4 & 12 and only have one part (No.1) in duplicate. A few months back I saw a complete set going for £145 in good condition but you have to be very committed GW to go for something like that if you're starting from scratch.

[EddieB]

Or not - I only bothered with a couple of parts back then but, after a reasonable find in a bookshop have set out to complete the series and now need only Parts 4 & 12 and only have one part (No.1) in duplicate. A few months back I saw a complete set going for £145 in good condition but you have to be very committed GW to go for something like that if you're starting from scratch.

 

I've recently managed to complete sets of the RCTS Great Western, LNER and Southern series - but probably paying a little over the odds for the final copies. Best places to look are the second-hand bookshops at major preserved lines, whose copies may not be pristine (though sometimes are) but usually sold at a good price. Don't forget to check with RCTS sales (as a previous message advised) which still has a few editions available new at far better prices than you'll find on abebooks (or similar), specialist railway booksellers or expect to pay on eBay.