SteveBedding Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 Thanks to everyone for your kind words and encouragement; at this stage I’m still in my comfort zone – when the layout eventually gets to the later stages (scenery, track laying, rolling stock etc), that’s where I shall be facing the really steep learning curve! Now that the excessive overindulgence of the weekend has settled, I can move on with the really important tasks (the ironing will just have to wait a bit longer!) The Assembly Jig Having dodged yet more showers, I can see some tangible progress being made! The assembly jig, which will be used to ensure all of the boards are built to exactly/approximately/almost (delete as appropriate ) the same size, is now finished! Finished 1200mm x 675mm assembly jig The jig was built in four stages: Firstly one or two pieces of 50mm sq PSE were screwed to a length of ply to produce 2 side and 2 end pieces. Then one ‘long’ and one ‘short’ (side and end) were glued and screwed to form two right-angled ‘L’ shaped halves of the jig. Once the glue had cured, the 2 halves were brought together and joined; a diagonal brace was fitted to prevent distortion. The PSE blocks were trimmed back from the corners to allow access to the outside of the joints and holes drilled in the ‘floor’ under the joint position to allow any excess glue to drip away. Lastly, the ‘rough bits’ around the edges and under-side were all sanded as I so hate getting splinters! One learning point here - contact adhesive is very good, but it is a real pig when you are trying to accurately align joints! Next time I'll stick with normal wood glue when setting/adjusting precisely angled joints! Drainage hole for excess glue So far I can say that I was feeling quite pleased with myself – and not a little smug ! But now for the moment of truth… Well b%$^&r me! It actually is square…..!!!! I know that despite having planned out exactly what I wanted to achieve, it still gives a warm fuzzy feeling when it actually works! B) Now that the jig is complete, I can start to assemble the actual baseboards - but that will have to wait... Steve 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 The Assembly Jig - Continued OK. I know that starting assembly of the baseboards is going to have to wait for a while; I don’t like gluing when there is too much ‘damp’ in the air, and at the moment, it is more like a few bubbles in a river! That said, I couldn’t wait to see if the jig actually worked – yes, it measures up ok, is square, and has been set level, but does it actually work? Board 2 is central/key to the layout, so a dry-run was called for… Looking good so far - the ends and sides fit snugly and all seems to be ‘true’… Still good… …the track-bed supports/cross members all fit in the right places… …and finally the track-bed resting on top (this still needs 6mm to be trimmed off both ends). Steve 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 With baseboards looking this neat I can't wait to see what comes next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Hi Steve, I will be watching this one with interest as I live in Calne as well. We had Black Dog halt running last week, although I think it is the only time a class 45/1 has ever been down the Calne Branch! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted August 30, 2010 Author Share Posted August 30, 2010 Building the Supports/Legs Hi all, thanks for the interest More steady progress this week. The frames of the three boards have been glued together using the jig – this was a very slow process as I allowed the full 24 hours for the glue to cure before moving on to the next board. Since this took up the hole of the middle of the garage, there wasn’t much space to do anything else ! With the frames under way, I started to look at the supports for the layout – big questions such as how and what height for the track needed to be considered. Having previously helped Mitziblue with ‘driving’ his layout ‘Witney Euston (Old RMweb - 1/3 down the page for the legs...)’, I was very impressed with the plywood sheet method used – simple, light, and very easy to assemble on the move. It was also suggested that the height of the track be set to 1000mm; similar to ‘Witney’, Missy’s ‘Highclere’ (old RMweb), and the Oxford 2mm Area Group’s WSI layouts. The reasoning behind this diversion to ensure that when fixing the track-bed to the frames, I got the height/level constant... However, as with everything I make, I ‘over-engineered’ the solution. An important criteria was to reuse whatever was available in the garage/wood store; since I didn’t have sufficient spare sheets of ply available, the design was revised to use ply ‘planks’ and PSE bracing. By using off-cuts of ply and PSE, the jig was reused to hold the ‘uprights’ during construction – this ensured that they were square and the correct width to fit the baseboard frames. Frame assembly gig 'packed' to build support uprights... Details of 'packing' (6mm ply and 18mm PSE)between jig and 'vertical' beam of the the upright... ...and in true Blue Peter tradition, here's one I prepared earlier... They just need their 'feet' and locating pillars fitted and then I can test them on the boards... ...well (late) lunch break is over, can't waste the sunshine any more, I hope to have the cross braces finished by the end of the day Steve 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted August 30, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2010 Steve - nice work - I am going for 1200mm to track level (same as Kris of Avonwick) as it has been suggested that 2FS is better appreciated from a higher viewpoint due to its smaller scale - all down to personal choice of course though - the plywood legs as used by Mark and Missy is certainly a very neat solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitziblue Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Nice job with the legs Steve the extra timber up the sides will take out the wip which mine suffer with when using on only one board. This does dissapear when all the legs are set up however. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted August 30, 2010 Author Share Posted August 30, 2010 Cutting the horizontal 'planks' took longer than expected and so I didn't get as far as hoped... However, the first one does fit and things are starting to look promising As to the height, having built one set of 'legs' at 1000mm track height, it shouldn't be too difficult to knock-up a second set of 'uprights' at 1200mm and re-use the original horizontal planks - but I'll cross that bridge if/when I get to it. For the moment, 1000mm is probably better for me for ease of access during construction - since I'm a 'short-a$%e', I need every bit of help I can get 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted September 1, 2010 Author Share Posted September 1, 2010 Great, the server's back up and everything is looking good - congratulations Andy! Building the Supports/Legs (Continued) A lot of work but very little to show – except for an awful lot of splinters in my hands (Note to self – must remember to sand off the blood stains later! ) The uprights are now finished with the locating pillars attached and the adjustable feet have been temporarily inserted; these will need to be removed when the uprights are varnished. Completed ‘upright’ support – only another 3 to go… The horizontal braces were roughed-out and the interlocking notches cut, the intention is to strengthen the ends to minimise risk of splitting the plywood in use. Detail of ‘interlocking’ joint (open)… …and ‘interlocking’ joint (closed) – I just happened to have some ‘spare’ adjustable feet from a previous layout I built for my father With the main parts of the centre support (for board 2) completed, I just had to give it all a trial fit; still need to fit the ‘receiving sockets’ on the base board, but with the careful application of a few clamps, nothing is impossible… First test fit – and very pleasingly, it all worked ! I still need to add the vertical reinforcing braces at either end of the horizontal planks, these will press up against the inside edge of the uprights and will add to the rigidity of the completed structure. The next stage will to get the cross members and scenic supports in place for board 2 - this will allow me to 'finalise' the centre section of the supports and give an exact datum to build the 'extensions' outwards that will support boards 1 & 3. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Building the Supports/Legs (Finished – Well Almost…) “No plan survives first contact with the enemy†and so went my anticipated work on the legs over the past few days... I had anticipated that the extensions about the centre ‘block’ (board 2) would require that the boards (1&3) be roughly assembled to accurately place the outside legs. However, by chance, the 125mm x 6mm ply ‘planks’ that I had saved for this purpose had been cut to 4ft (1220mm) rather than the 1200mm that I had ‘standardised’ on. This placed the positioning of the locating pillars on the uprights sufficiently clear of any cross pieces to remove the need to work on the boards The horizontal braces for the centre section have been completed; vertical strips now connect the upper and lower horizontals, and the ends outside of the interlock have been doubled up (I ‘cross-grained’ the ply for added strength). When assembled, this has given far grater rigidity than I had anticipated, even without the addition of the extension pieces… The centre sections, with the doubled-up ends and vertical strips ‘lock’ with the uprights to form a fixed joint; the horizontal ‘planks’ which support the extensions to either side act as wedges that hold the centre section joints in place. The completed ‘support system’ – it takes less than 5 minutes to assemble and can be comfortably carried by one person Well I have probably now finished constructing the legs/supports for the layout; other than painting/varnishing them and some minor cosmetic ‘fettling’ (and I think I have a cunning plan to make clip-on ‘extensions’ to raise the track height to 1200mm – thanks Pete for the suggestion ), I can crack on with the boards themselves… ...PS - One final thought as I look at the completed structure - I could add shelves that could be used to hold the command station, power supplies, stock boxes, tool kit, coffee cup, lunch box (including an bacon sarnie!) etc 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitziblue Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Fantastic work Steve If my aprentice dosn't work out do you fancy a job Now the woodwork is done do we pester Mike for that mini point building workshop Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Thanks for the job offer Mark - who know's in 18 months I may take you up on it Psst.... Don't tell SWMBO, but I've ordered the first instalment of Easitrac Trackwork - Some Thoughts I have previously built a small 2mm test track using the traditional (basic) method of soldering rails to PCB sleepers in 120ft (240mm) lengths. This was fine for a starting point; the absence of chairs isn't really noticeable in 2mm scale, but with the advent of Easitrac, there is now no excuse for this omission. I have therefore decided to go down this route, but, rather than use the milled turnout bases, I'm going to use individual ABS sleeper strips. This is not an indication of any skill of mine, but rather a judgement of economics, since I need 14 turnouts on the layout... ...however, when it all goes 'Pete Tong' I'll probably have to revert to the milled bases. Before this happens I must finish the boards and there are some cosmetic changes to the Templot plan that need to be made... So much to do and so little time - now that the summer holidays are over, and the kids are back to schools, I can't use the excuse of 'child minding' so much to get to work from home! Oh well, I suppose work, pays for the trains, so I can't complain... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrimsjulie Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Well Swmbo has just read the posts!!!! Well the photos look fantastic and I must admit it looks bigger than what I expected!!! I must admit I am missing not being there to help even if it was to make the coffees and bacon butties!! But someone has to do all these different jobs to pay for the easitrack that you have already ordered!!! It really looks great though and I will be glad when you give me something to do xx 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 6, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 6, 2010 Well Swmbo has just read the posts!!!! You've been rumbled Steve...In the same way, I too have to watch my Facebook posts since I added my wife as a friend...I made sure the mother-in-law friend request got rejected though The support structure looks great - really sturdy and as you say, room for some shelving perhaps. Glad you have a plan too for the 1200mm high option, although as you said, it's probably easier to do day to day work on the layout at the height it is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 With interruptions such as having to go off on a 3-day training course, and an essential visit to TINGS, very little time has been available for working on the railway. Fortunately, the next steps could be done in small blocks… Having been rumbled by SWMBO on ordering the Easitrac, I felt that some appeasement was most definitely in order. In most cases this would involve combinations of flowers, chocolates, or in extremis, a world cruise – however, SWMBO is very particular and this time I was able to dig myself out of the hole with a well timed Farish 61xx in GWR livery (who knows, it may even migrate from N to 2mm at a later date… ) I quite glad I didn't find too many bargains at TINGS - otherwise it would probably have cost me an Ixion Manor Building the Baseboards With the legs/supports completed, attention now turned to the actual baseboards; the logic behind building the legs first was to ensure that the track bed could aligned and levelled across the boards when they were set on their stands. The first step was to fix each of the cross braces. Previously I have fitted softwood blocks at each corner but having looked at other layouts I decided to try using ‘hot glue’. This turned out to be extremely quick and easy and simply involved clamping the brace in the required position and squirting the glue down the joint; allowing to cool; remove the clamp, and then doing other side… …sounds simple enough, doesn’t it? As with everything, there is of course a ‘however’… I did say this was quick and easy – I’ll caveat that claim by saying it is a skill and needs practice. My first attempts, whilst structurally sound were abysmal to look at! (They also included several burnt fingers ! ) Fortunately, once set, it is quite straightforward to cut out the glue and sand down the joint before doing it again By redoing one side of the ‘T-joint’ before the other and allowing it to set, it wasn’t necessary to re-clamp the cross piece, and so it was quicker the second time round . Several lessons learnt: 1. Let the glue get properly hot before trying to use it… 2. You cannot wet your finger enough before trying to smooth the glue… 3. Only make one attempt to smooth the joint – repetitive attempts only makes a mess. Let it dry, cut it out, and try again… 4. Keep a large bowl of water close to hand… 5. Always remember, ‘hot glue’ is HOT ! … You may have guessed that the early attempts were not too successful, messy, and painful ! Once the cross braces were done, it was a simple (there’s that word again) matter of fitting the 3mm ply ‘floor’ for the scenic foam that covers the bulk of the layout. It is easier to attach the foam to a flat surface (ie the thin sheet ply) rather than the edge of the frame pieces; additionally, this extra surface adds further rigidity to the structure for very little additional weight. Lastly, this surface acts as the ‘floor’ for the baseboards that will rest upon the uprights. Putting it all together, we get… It all fits and lines up as anticipated (hoped…). Board 3 is yet to be done, but I don’t anticipate any issues with this as it is supposedly the simple one. The track beds are currently being primed underneath before being fitted. I intend stick a simplified Templot printout (mirror image) on the underside and this is best done before the track bed is fully fixed down. Also, I’m going to put copper tape (for track/signal busses) the length of the track bed before it is fixed; this should simplify the wiring. In the process of fitting it all together, it became very apparent that in all of my measuring and cutting, I had omitted to allow any tolerance in fitting the boards to the uprights – whilst they fitted, it is extremely tight and if/when painted or varnished it would become too much of an interference fit. I have a view with respect to carpentry that there isn’t anything that cannot be solved by the application of filler and/or a belt sander and this is certainly a case in point . At the next opportunity, I’ll ‘fettle’ the uprights to give a little slack easing assembly – better too tight than too loose at this point! The next step will be to set the track beds on boards 1 & 2, so I'd better get cracking on... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 Track Bed Underside Lots of time and effort with very little progress to show for it! (…and no excuses to give… ). Work has been focused on the track bed for board 2, the track plan and copper tape needed to be fitted to the board before it was fixed to the full framework; this was so that the drawing and electrical connections could run the full length of the baseboard without interruptions/breaks. The underside was primed and sanded; I can strongly recommend the B&Q ‘grey’ water-based primer – this is easy to use (like any normal emulsion), very thick, quick drying and sands off to a nice finish. I have used the ‘white’ primer before but found that this does not have the same degree of ability as a ‘filler’ as does the ‘grey’. The mirror image of the Templot plan was fixed to the now smooth underside with normal Spray Mount and allowed to dry. And now a message from our sponsor – use of the dining room for modelling purposes is by kind permission of SWMBO When dry, the whole of the underside was given a very thin coat of satin varnish to fix the track plan in place. Although the Templot printout (from an ink jet printer) had had over 4 hours to dry, applying the varnish did cause the ink to run in a couple of places. It also caused minor ‘bubbling’ in the surface, but as this is for the underside and only indicative of the track above this was acceptable . (When it comes to fixing the track plan to the upper surface (to lay the actual track to) I need to think of a better way to fix it down ) The track power lines were applied using a mixture of 10mm and 6mm copper tape; the 10mm strips are primarily for the main supply distribution and the additional 6mm strips are to provide ‘local’ links to minimise the droppers from the rails themselves. The track bed was frequently ‘sanity checked’ against the overall plan for the board to make sure that it was going right… …never assume, check! I'm quite happy with how this has worked in principle; I now need to carry out the same process for boards 1 and 3. Then with all 3 boards structurally completed, I can sand the top surfaces true across the length of the layout before fitting the cork track underlay... ...There's certainly no shortage of jobs to keep me out of mischief 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted September 19, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2010 Very cunning printing the track plan and sticking it on upside down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 Thanks for the observation; I'm afraid I can't claim any originality to the idea - I saw it on a thread a couple of weeks ago and thought that it was a brilliant idea (I'm not proud, I'll plagiarise anything... ). However, it does have it's down sides - you really have to be 110% certain that the track plan is finalised! Because it sits between the track be plank and the cross braces, it is not practically feasible to 'amend' once its fitted I was OK with board 2, but I still have some revisions to do around the By-Products Factory private sidings before I can commit to board 1 - basically can I get away with an A5 point (nominal 18") or have to stick with an A6 which gets in the way of the roadway across to the main station sidings... Its a tough call but I hope to have got it sorted in the next day or so. Then, it's full speed ahead for board 1... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 20, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2010 (edited) And now a message from our sponsor – use of the dining room for modelling purposes is by kind permission of SWMBO :lol: Good progress Steve - look forward to see the track going down...presume you are going the easitrac route, turnouts included? EDIT - Doh - reread the thread again and it answered my question...that's what comes from reading posts on the iPhone...the iPad would solve that one... Edited September 20, 2010 by bcnPete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted September 20, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2010 I was OK with board 2, but I still have some revisions to do around the By-Products Factory private sidings before I can commit to board 1 - basically can I get away with an A5 point (nominal 18") or have to stick with an A6 which gets in the way of the roadway across to the main station sidings... Its a tough call but I hope to have got it sorted in the next day or so. Then, it's full speed ahead for board 1... I have used B7's which feel reasonable tight for bogie stock, so given this I feel that the A6 is the way to go. The A5 would be be very tight. I think that it will be visually more consistent with the rest of the layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrimsjulie Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Track Bed Underside Lots of time and effort with very little progress to show for it! (…and no excuses to give… ). Work has been focused on the track bed for board 2, the track plan and copper tape needed to be fitted to the board before it was fixed to the full framework; this was so that the drawing and electrical connections could run the full length of the baseboard without interruptions/breaks. The underside was primed and sanded; I can strongly recommend the B&Q ‘grey’ water-based primer – this is easy to use (like any normal emulsion), very thick, quick drying and sands off to a nice finish. I have used the ‘white’ primer before but found that this does not have the same degree of ability as a ‘filler’ as does the ‘grey’. The mirror image of the Templot plan was fixed to the now smooth underside with normal Spray Mount and allowed to dry. And now a message from our sponsor – use of the dining room for modelling purposes is by kind permission of SWMBO When dry, the whole of the underside was given a very thin coat of satin varnish to fix the track plan in place. Although the Templot printout (from an ink jet printer) had had over 4 hours to dry, applying the varnish did cause the ink to run in a couple of places. It also caused minor ‘bubbling’ in the surface, but as this is for the underside and only indicative of the track above this was acceptable . (When it comes to fixing the track plan to the upper surface (to lay the actual track to) I need to think of a better way to fix it down ) The track power lines were applied using a mixture of 10mm and 6mm copper tape; the 10mm strips are primarily for the main supply distribution and the additional 6mm strips are to provide ‘local’ links to minimise the droppers from the rails themselves. The track bed was frequently ‘sanity checked’ against the overall plan for the board to make sure that it was going right… …never assume, check! I'm quite happy with how this has worked in principle; I now need to carry out the same process for boards 1 and 3. Then with all 3 boards structurally completed, I can sand the top surfaces true across the length of the layout before fitting the cork track underlay... ...There's certainly no shortage of jobs to keep me out of mischief Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrimsjulie Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Well SWMBO actually saw all the progress being made on 'Smoky Bacon' at the weekend for the first time in 6 weeks!! :rolleyes:Well someone has to earn all the pennies so that the 'Copper tape and easitrack' can be bought!!. I was very impressed with what I had seen and wished I could be of more help..I am just waiting for the scenery to be started then hopefully I will be able to do some even if I am away!! I must admit I am pleased to be able to log in again and to be able to make my comments!! Many thanks Andy for your help and assistance it this..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 (It's a good job that SWMBO approves of this and even better that she wants to get involved is the scenic side of things - I feel that Father Christmas may well be bring her an electrostatic grass thingy... ) Kris Thanks for your comment - I have aimed to use A6/A7 as much as possible but given my compromise on overall length (14.5' squeezed into 10'), I had anticipated that there would probably have to be some hard choices around the Harris' factory area. The considerations are: 1. Traffic to coal sidings would normally be 4-wheel (9' - 12' wheelbase) RCH/PO coal wagons, 2. Traffic to Harris' factory would normally be 4-wheel (9' - 12' wheelbase) standard box vans/MINKs, but could include 4-wheel 29' SYPHON C, 40' bogie SYPHON F, or even 1 off 50' SYPHON G, 3. The 'run around' at the end of the 2 Harris sidings should normally cope with a small 6-coupled loco, typically a 57xx (or if I wanted to cover the whole spectrum a BR Class 03 ), 4. There was an access road/track (probably just compacted ballast/cinders) across the entrance to the private sidings that allowed vehicle access from the station entrance to the sidings on the south-side of the goods area. I wanted the start of the first 'point' to be as close to the fence-line as possible, but given the curves into the factory building, this had to be set back a bit further towards the loading dock - net result is that the access road crosses directly over the point! I had elected to accept a minimum radius of 18" within the privates sidings (not unreasonable?) and so A5 would have matched this. The problem with this is that whilst the point is closer to the fence-line, it means that that the road/track crosses over more than 75% of the switch blades! If an A6 point is used, The start of the point comes right back to the end of the loading dock, BUT, the road/track only crosses about 30% of the switch blades. To me this is better from an 'engineering' perspective, but I'm not 100% happy with the accuracy to the prototype . That said, if I was to follow the OS plan directly (the GWR 40' plan doesn't cover this area ) I would have used a 12" minimum radius and A4 points!!! In drafting this reply, I think I've actually answered my own question, I knew from the start that there were going to have to be compromises, any form of compression will have its disadvantages! I think that the best option will be to use the A6 option, but I'll sit on the fence a little longer before committing to allow any 'experts', 'rivet counters', or anyone who can provide some guidance... Cheers (Now, breaks over, back on my head...) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Steve, Wow - you don't hang around, do you?! It was nice to meet at TINGS the other weekend. I can't claim to be an expert or a rivet counter, but if you use the A5 turnout, quite a lot of the moveable parts of the turnout blades will be in the roadway, and I think this will be difficult to make look right, let alone get to work reliably. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted September 20, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2010 Looks like the OS map is inaccurate given the sharpness of the turn that is shown on the map. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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