prestwin wagons

[Dan Griffin]

hi im after some info on prestwin wagons (the Dapol kit wagon or wrenn one), what id like to know is,

 

when was the last of these withdrawn from service?

 

what did they carry?

 

were they all painted bauxite?

 

were the unloaded the same was as presflo's, using air?

 

what was their main area of operation or were they pretty much country wide?

 

and are there any decent colour images online some place?

 

thanks in advance.

 

dan

[Mark Forrest]

 

and are there any decent colour images online some place?

 

 

Last question first - try Paul Bartlett's site, specifically:

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c53669.html

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c56832.html

and

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c50309.html

 

Cheers

[Fat Controller]

hi im after some info on prestwin wagons (the Dapol kit wagon or wrenn one), what id like to know is,

 

when was the last of these withdrawn from service?

 

what did they carry?

 

were they all painted bauxite?

 

were the unloaded the same was as presflo's, using air?

 

what was their main area of operation or were they pretty much country wide?

 

and are there any decent colour images online some place?

 

thanks in advance.

 

dan

Last things first- Paul Bartlett's the man as usual:-

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c50309.html

They were always painted bauxite, but received an extra coat of paint, so kept their colour better than some.

Traffic carried was fine powder of various types (but not cement), including lime, glass-making sand.

Unloading was by air, as with the Presflos.

Amongst places they operated from were Whitehaven, Peak Forest, Chelford and Oakamoor.

I think the last went in 1978 or thereabout. It was unusual to see more than a handful in a train, unlike the Presflos.

[Pennine MC]

Traffic carried was fine powder of various types (but not cement), including lime, glass-making sand.

Added to that a couple of more unusual ones, alumina from Burntisland to somewhere in Essex and slate powder from Wadebridge, in conjunction with the recently oft-mentioned Slate Presflos. I also had sight of a print that Dave Larkin had acquired of one marked 'Dried Hydrate', I dunno what it is but it sounds a bit contradictory They were also used for soda ash from Cheshire along with the airslide-modified grain hoppers - there's a pic in the Janes 40s volume of a broadside of a train including these and I think that use might have lasted into the 80s

[Fat Controller]

Added to that a couple of more unusual ones, alumina from Burntisland to somewhere in Essex and slate powder from Wadebridge, in conjunction with the recently oft-mentioned Slate Presflos. I also had sight of a print that Dave Larkin had acquired of one marked 'Dried Hydrate', I dunno what it is but it sounds a bit contradictory They were also used for soda ash from Cheshire along with the airslide-modified grain hoppers - there's a pic in the Janes 40s volume of a broadside of a train including these and I think that use might have lasted into the 80s

I suspect 'dried hydrate' might be 'slaked' (hydrated) lime, which has been dried to allow it to flow more easily.

I'd always thought that the modified grain hoppers were for lime traffic from Dowlow or Hindlow?

A lot of the lime traffic wasn't for industrial use, I believe, but for use in water treatment plants- presumably in those where the water running into reservoirs is relatively acidic.

[Pennine MC]

I'd always thought that the modified grain hoppers were for lime traffic from Dowlow or Hindlow?

 

Having checked the caption, TBH that might be an incorrect assumption on my part Brian. The shot is described as 'southbound freight at Golborne Jcn'; the location is AFAIK near Warrington but in terms of traffic flow determination, I suppose it's pretty inconclusive

[beast66606]

Having checked the caption, TBH that might be an incorrect assumption on my part Brian. The shot is described as 'southbound freight at Golborne Jcn'; the location is AFAIK near Warrington but in terms of traffic flow determination, I suppose it's pretty inconclusive

 

Golborne was were the line towards the Liverpool/Manchester "Chat Moss" left the WCML, routes to both Liverpool/Manchester available, so it could be heading towards Warrington (on the main) or it could be taking the Chat Moss towards Manchester and the Peaks (district!) I don't have the pic so I can't add any more info I'm afraid.

 

(There is a slim chance it could also take Golborne -> Lowton -> Earlestown -> Winwick and back onto the WCML)

[hmrspaul]

Last question first - try Paul Bartlett's site, specifically:

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c53669.html

 

Cheers

This collection is NOT of the Airfix kit. The diagram 277 photos are all dated, so late 1983 sees us measuring and recording the last of them. Unfortunately the 274 went unrecorded in detail.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Dan Griffin]

thanks guys. i have seen a few images in books dated 1981. that'll do me. i fancy building a few so my excuse is that BR kept hold of a few due to problems with the new wagons.

[flyingsignalman]

Added to that a couple of more unusual ones, alumina from Burntisland to somewhere in Essex and slate powder from Wadebridge, in conjunction with the recently oft-mentioned Slate Presflos. I also had sight of a print that Dave Larkin had acquired of one marked 'Dried Hydrate', I dunno what it is but it sounds a bit contradictory They were also used for soda ash from Cheshire along with the airslide-modified grain hoppers - there's a pic in the Janes 40s volume of a broadside of a train including these and I think that use might have lasted into the 80s

 

Lever's at Port Sunlight received these wagons (and the modified grain hoppers) from Whitehaven until mid 1980 at least. I moved from Hooton box then so I lost touch with the joint line for 5 years (they may have lasted until late 1981).

[40044]

There were about half a dozen Prestwins sat in the scrapyard next to St Helens Junction station in the mid 1980s.

 

Sodium Tripolyphosphate from Corkickle to Port Sunlight and Warrington was one traffic flow until replaced by PCAs.

[Pennine MC]

Thanks chaps, sounds like the Port Sunlight run is what the 40's on then. Looking at the pic won't help with routeing, it's a broadside of loco and first three wagons with no other tracks visible. BTW it's dated 1980, either April or May IIRC

[flyingsignalman]

Here are a few pics with prestwins in them.

 

This is from the box at Port Sunlight and shows the wagons waiting for collection by the afternoon T18 trip to Ellesmere Port. It was taken 20/3/1978 and it was raining. The grain wagons were from Silcocks (inside Levers work) and brought in grain for animal feed products. The train in the foreground has 24 081 leading a Cl25 on empty wagons for Birkenhead.

 

The second, taken 7/3/1980, shows 25 169 on T18 to E/Port passing Hooton, all the wagons including the grain hopper were from Levers.

All the cars in the background were from Vauxhall's; the two sidings at the rear were known as the Car Sidings and car trains for Scotland were loaded there. The coach is an ex LMS coach and was a mess coach. The wagon in front of it was used for loading the top deck of the double-deck car wagons. Car trains had run until about 1973/4 and a trial had been done to restart them but it came to nothing while I was there.

The hut by the right of the loco was for a policeman to stand in when the royal train had spent the night (occupied) in the car sidings a few months previously.

 

The last shows 40 106, also at Hooton with the morning trip to Levers. It was taken between May 1979 and September 1980 but I didn't record the date.

[BernardTPM]

The different heights certainly show up well in the photos; the early batch must have lasted almost as long as the later ones.

[flyingsignalman]

Thanks chaps, sounds like the Port Sunlight run is what the 40's on then. Looking at the pic won't help with routeing, it's a broadside of loco and first three wagons with no other tracks visible. BTW it's dated 1980, either April or May IIRC

 

The wagons for Port Sunlight would have been detached at Warrington Arpley (if the train didn't terminate there) and put on a train to Ellesmere Port, from where, they would be sent on the local trip working to Port Sunlight.

[davefreight]

The wagons for Port Sunlight would have been detached at Warrington Arpley (if the train didn't terminate there) and put on a train to Ellesmere Port, from where, they would be sent on the local trip working to Port Sunlight.

 

Loved the photos of the Port Sunlight trip, have you any more!

 

Some info :

 

Pool 3713 Marchon Whitehaven to Port Sunlight. Chemicals. Various dates 1975 and 1976

 

B 885611/13/15/18/24/27/36/41/57/58/89/708 all coded CGP

 

Sodium tripolyphosphate from Albright & Wilson, Corkickle to Lever Bros., Port Sunlight and Lever Bros., Warrington Bank Quay

 

On May 17, 1976 pool breakdown showed eight wagons loaded en route to Port Sunlight with one loaded at Warrington and the rest empty at Corkickle.

 

As far as I know STPP was the only traffic for these air-assisted grain although they may have been tested in other traffics. All were stored oou by Feb. 1981.

 

Pool 3097 Marchon Whitehaven to various. Chemicals. Various dates 1975-1981.

 

B 873001/5/6/16/19/23/196/375/78/81/82/86/89/96/99/404/5/7/14/18/19/720/21/29/31/36/41/42/44/46/48/53/55-57/59-61/63/66/67 all 41 coded CQV

 

Sodium tripolyphosphate from Albright & Wilson, Corkickle to Lever Bros., Port Sunlight and Lever Bros., Warrington Bank Quay. These wagons were also occasionally used to supply Procter & Gamble at West Thurrock although that flow was largely carried in Covhops until being taken over by the bogie powder wagons CL 84701 and PR 11300-12 in 1972.

 

At the start of 1975 130 of the 131 Prestwins were still allocated to traffic pools (all bar the prototype) with 41 in alumina traffic from Burntisland; 34 in lime traffic from Hindlow; 37 in STPP from Corkickle; and 18 with sand from Congleton. By Feb 1981 only 79 still in traffic - 10 in alumina from Burntisland; 28 in Lime from Hindlow; 41 STPP from Corkickle.

 

Would be interested if anybody could identify the customer in Essex which an earlier poster mentioned as receiving alumina from Burntisland as the only customers I have are BTP, Grimsby; B Aluminum, Warrington (this had ceased prior to 1975); and Newport Lliswerry.

 

If modelling worth remembering that these vehicles often retained their old branding after transfer to a different working - for instance several that had previously been in soda ash from Northwich were still so lettered some years after being moved to the STPP flow.

 

In earlier years they were used for several other loads - my list of commodities carried by the Prestwins (some only trials) and not necessarily exhaustive:

 

Basic slag, Calcined hydrate of alumina, China clay, Flour, Fullers earth, Ground limestone, Ground silica, Polymer powders, Pyrophosphates, Salt, Soda ash, sodium perborate, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Starch, Slate powder.

 

David R

[40044]

Would be interested if anybody could identify the customer in Essex which an earlier poster mentioned as receiving alumina from Burntisland as the only customers I have are BTP, Grimsby; B Aluminum, Warrington (this had ceased prior to 1975); and Newport Lliswerry.

 

Only a guess, but LaFarge Aluminous Cement at Purfleet?

[Fat Controller]

I had a look at my very early copy of 'Baker' to see if there was anywhere in Essex that might have taken alumina from Burntisland, but there was nothing really obvious. Two possibilities come to mind:-

Might it have been used in the manufacture of high-alumina cement, in which case the cement plants around Thurrock and Greys could be a destination?

Could it have been intended for Norton Abrasives at Welwyn Garden City? Not Essex, I know, but relatively close.

[Pennine MC]

Would be interested if anybody could identify the customer in Essex which an earlier poster mentioned as receiving alumina from Burntisland

I think it's in a letter to MRJ, possibly from Don Rowland and following a letter from Dave Larkin, itself following the random publication of a pic of one of the LNER wooden alumina hops. Of course, can I hell as find it now...

[Mark Saunders]

I had a look at my very early copy of 'Baker' to see if there was anywhere in Essex that might have taken alumina from Burntisland, but there was nothing really obvious. Two possibilities come to mind:-

Might it have been used in the manufacture of high-alumina cement, in which case the cement plants around Thurrock and Greys could be a destination?

Could it have been intended for Norton Abrasives at Welwyn Garden City? Not Essex, I know, but relatively close.

 

Lafarge at Grays may have been the customer, they were still taking alumina by road in the late 80's/ early 90's.

 

Mark Saunders

[davefreight]

Lafarge at Grays may have been the customer, they were still taking alumina by road in the late 80's/ early 90's.

 

Mark Saunders

 

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I'll do a bit of digging into the cement works.

 

David R

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Could it have been intended for Norton Abrasives at Welwyn Garden City? ...

There are several other possible destination industries, some served by the industrial spur East, which was the stub of the old Hertford branch. The roofing materials manufacturer (whose name escapes me) and the ICI plastics division research base are other possible destinations. Nortons typically got their deliveries in sheeted open hoppers, then covered hoppers. Definitely saw the occasional one in WGC yard in the 1960s (which is why I was so pleased to have fortuitously acquired one of the old H-D models that I was yattering about earlier this month).

[Dave777]

Interesting variations on the 'bauxite' theme in that first photo that Keith posted...

[StaffsOatcake]

The ones used from Oakamoor to Port Sunlight carried industrial fine grade sand/powder (referred to as flour) for use in cleaning product such as Vim and various other products

[NormalforFife]

Hi there,

 

A qualification on the allocation of 'Prestwin' hoppers on the British Aluminium Burntisland traffic; although nominally allocated to the "alumina" pool, it is my understanding that these wagons were only used for transporting Dried Hydrate of Alumina, (abbreviated to "Dried Hydrate" in common usage). This product only became available from BACo's Burntisland works after 1972, (however, it was formerly produced by them at Newport, South Wales). Dried Hydrate contained no free moisture, but still retained water in chemical combination. Alumina proper contained no water and was produced by firing alumina hydrate at high temperature in a kiln. While the hydrate was transported in 'Prestwins', alumina was transported in 'Presflo' wagons, (or grain hoppers). I have no idea, however, as to whether some design attribute of these different wagon types dictated this pattern of usage. In both instances, the wagons were top loaded by gravity from overhead bunkers.

 

Regards,

David B