prestwin wagons

[davefreight]

Thanks for the extra info David B.

[AJCT]

I've raised this one on another thread but it didn't prompt any response, so I'll try again here: published pics of Waverley Route freights in the 1960s sometimes feature a few Prestwins (or Presflos) in the consist - does anyone know what traffic they conveyed, and where from and to?

 

Alasdair

[John Tomlinson]

Hi there,

 

A qualification on the allocation of 'Prestwin' hoppers on the British Aluminium Burntisland traffic; although nominally allocated to the "alumina" pool, it is my understanding that these wagons were only used for transporting Dried Hydrate of Alumina, (abbreviated to "Dried Hydrate" in common usage). This product only became available from BACo's Burntisland works after 1972, (however, it was formerly produced by them at Newport, South Wales). Dried Hydrate contained no free moisture, but still retained water in chemical combination. Alumina proper contained no water and was produced by firing alumina hydrate at high temperature in a kiln. While the hydrate was transported in 'Prestwins', alumina was transported in 'Presflo' wagons, (or grain hoppers). I have no idea, however, as to whether some design attribute of these different wagon types dictated this pattern of usage. In both instances, the wagons were top loaded by gravity from overhead bunkers.

 

Regards,

David B

 

BACo Prestwins.jpg

I'm just completing an Airfix/ Dapol kit of one of these.

 

This is a really useful photo, as  it confirms that the clasp brakes on each side were not linked with a yoke, and hence no safety loops either. I've looked through Paul Bartlett's pictures which show the same, and yet that the brakes on the shorter Prestwin variant were so fitted. Yet another pitfall for the unwary modeller, and out with the cutters to snip the ones I'd already made!

 

Can anyone explain why the later type were not linked by a yoke?

 

I wonder as well if anyone knows what the difference in height was between the early and later variants. The tanks look to be identical with the difference simply in the height of the base, in which case this would be quite a simple conversion ( if anything ever is!) from the existing kit.

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

Edited June 23, 2015 by John Tomlinson

[Fat Controller]

I've raised this one on another thread but it didn't prompt any response, so I'll try again here: published pics of Waverley Route freights in the 1960s sometimes feature a few Prestwins (or Presflos) in the consist - does anyone know what traffic they conveyed, and where from and to?

 

Alasdair

Whilst the most likely use is for alumina from Burntisland to somewhere down south, or sand for the glass industry around Stirling, I saw a photo of one on someone's Fotopic site at Camden shed, presumably carrying loco sand. It's the only time I've ever seen this in the UK, though I have seen similar wagons being so used at various locations on the Continent.

[hmrspaul]

 

Can anyone explain why the later type were not linked by a yoke?

 

John.

The early ones had a fairly standard type of clasp brake arrangement with a central actuator working on the yokes to work each brake. Because when the silos were dropped between the frames it was no longer possible to have a central linkage to work the brakes as there was no room. Instead there were linkages down behind the axleguards. I must admit I don't remember the details from measuring B873755. The Airfix kit is remarkably good for a 50 plus year old model, with the underneath of the silos modelled accurately. But they didn't do the brake linkages - but then no one did in those days.

 

Paul

[John Tomlinson]

The early ones had a fairly standard type of clasp brake arrangement with a central actuator working on the yokes to work each brake. Because when the silos were dropped between the frames it was no longer possible to have a central linkage to work the brakes as there was no room. Instead there were linkages down behind the axleguards. I must admit I don't remember the details from measuring B873755. The Airfix kit is remarkably good for a 50 plus year old model, with the underneath of the silos modelled accurately. But they didn't do the brake linkages - but then no one did in those days.

 

Paul

That is really helpful - thank you.

 

I realised that the inner yokes I'd already fitted actually went right across the base of the hoppers, which didn't seem quite convincing! The linkages you mention behind the axleguards do make sense looking again at photos, although in 4mm there isn't a lot to show - with my level of detailing anyway. By contrast the yokes and safety straps on the first tall batch are very visible and would be worth including if I ever do a conversion.

 

As ever your photos have been an invaluable record.

 

John.

[Guest 40-something]

As an aside to this thread, how accurate is the Wrenn/Hornby Prestwin bodywise? (ignoring the moulded pipework etc)

[BernardTPM]

Pretty accurate and some very nice detail for its age (circa 1960/61 IIRC). The chassis is pretty basic though.

[Fat Controller]

Pretty accurate and some very nice detail for its age (circa 1960/61 IIRC). The chassis is pretty basic though.

I wonder what one of these bodies would look like on a Red Panda 10' underframe? I know the axleguards are wrong...

[26power]

From Ernie Brack's Flickr site, a colour view including a couple of Prestwins.  Perhaps this an appropriate thread for other decent pictures, given the announced Bachmann model?   (Couldn't find a specific thread for that model yet, and assuming this is the version they are producing!)

 

Shap Wells 92076 on Up Goods 06/08/66: https://flic.kr/p/293ibYz

[Richard_A]

Was there any workings in South Wales which used these wagons?

[26power]

This post is the end result of a member modelling one of the ones not represented by the Airfix etc. kit and might be of interest: 

 

[br2975]

23 hours ago, rka said:

Was there any workings in South Wales which used these wagons?

Yes, to Newport (Lliswerry - near East Usk Jct.)

I believe it was traffic for Alcan / British Aluminium at Rogerstone.

As I'm over 1,000 miles from my books at present, I'm unable to go into greater detail.

[hmrspaul]

On 13/08/2010 at 22:45, Mark Forrest said:

 

Last question first - try Paul Bartlett's site, specifically:

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c53669.html

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c56832.html

and

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c50309.html

 

Cheers

Was that really only 2010!

Now viewable as

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brprestwin 

 

With the grain van conversion for hydrated lime in https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgp

 

Paul

[Gibbo675]

On 25/06/2015 at 17:59, Fat Controller said:

I wonder what one of these bodies would look like on a Red Panda 10' underframe? I know the axleguards are wrong...

Hi Brian,

 

Not quite the answer you are looking for but close, these are my Dublo / Wrenn bodied Prestwins which I mounted upon an altered Parkside chassis with home made brake gear and some Genesis small Oleo buffers. The ladders are a bit chunky and have one rung too few but I'm happy with them, the transfers are by Railtech.

 

You may well be correct that the Red Panda chassis would be a better choice than the Parkside kit. I would add that the Wrenn / Dublo has a more accurate representation of the pipework on top of the wagon for the particular wagon, diagram 274, than the Airfix / Dapol kit, diagram 277, as they are slightly different having looked at Paul Bartlett's site.

 

Shewing the plain and discharge side.

 

Finished wagons with transfers applied and the Airfix / Dapol kit for comparison.

 

Gibbo.

[Fat Controller]

On 13/06/2019 at 08:43, br2975 said:

Yes, to Newport (Lliswerry - near East Usk Jct.)

I believe it was traffic for Alcan / British Aluminium at Rogerstone.

As I'm over 1,000 miles from my books at present, I'm unable to go into greater detail.

An earlier post on this thread suggests the traffic may have been alumina hydrate from Rogerstone.

[rodent279]

On 17/08/2010 at 12:26, davefreight said:

Would be interested if anybody could identify the customer in Essex which an earlier poster mentioned as receiving alumina from Burntisland as the only customers I have are BTP, Grimsby; B Aluminum, Warrington (this had ceased prior to 1975); and Newport Lliswerry.

Could the Essex customer be Pilkington, in Harlow? They had a glass factory there, I used to work opposite it. 

[peterfgf]

Perhaps Accurascale could think about producing these.

Peterfgf

[45568]

On 15/06/2019 at 22:34, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Brian,

 

Not quite the answer you are looking for but close, these are my Dublo / Wrenn bodied Prestwins which I mounted upon an altered Parkside chassis with home made brake gear and some Genesis small Oleo buffers. The ladders are a bit chunky and have one rung too few but I'm happy with them, the transfers are by Railtech.

 

You may well be correct that the Red Panda chassis would be a better choice than the Parkside kit. I would add that the Wrenn / Dublo has a more accurate representation of the pipework on top of the wagon for the particular wagon, diagram 274, than the Airfix / Dapol kit, diagram 277, as they are slightly different having looked at Paul Bartlett's site.

 

Shewing the plain and discharge side.

 

Finished wagons with transfers applied and the Airfix / Dapol kit for comparison.

 

Gibbo.

This is a project that I am currently planning to undertake! I have obtained three H/D prestwins and intend to cut down the current Dapol 12' Prestwin kit chassis to 10'6" for the underframe. I had intended to use the silo bases from the kit on the shorter underframe; however reading the above it seems the extra height of the early prestwin is due to the discharge being above the underframe, is my thinking this correct?

 I also have two original Airfix kits for the later batch for comparison.

Any other thoughts, ideas or information gratefully received!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[Gibbo675]

3 hours ago, 45568 said:

This is a project that I am currently planning to undertake! I have obtained three H/D prestwins and intend to cut down the current Dapol 12' Prestwin kit chassis to 10'6" for the underframe. I had intended to use the silo bases from the kit on the shorter underframe; however reading the above it seems the extra height of the early prestwin is due to the discharge being above the underframe, is my thinking this correct?

 I also have two original Airfix kits for the later batch for comparison.

Any other thoughts, ideas or information gratefully received!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

Hi Peter,

 

Apart from the height that the silo tanks are mounted all the tank dimensions I would guess to be the same, they are within half a millimeter of each other in the H/D body and the Airfix kit. It would seem that the tanks were mounted higher on the short wheelbase wagons to clear the axles which would have been foul of the bottoms of the tanks on those chassis. I'm no expert by the way, I worked from photographs.

 

I would say that it would be better to use the Parkside chassis kits as the base, the chassis I used is the LNER clasp brake chassis kit PA35 which required slight modification to the axle boxes and brake gear.

 

One thing to not is that the pipework details between the types is slightly different so unless you have the H/D pipework It might be best to build the Airfix ones as they are and have six altogether

 

Here is how I did my conversion on the first page of my thread:

 

 

As mentioned Cambridge Custom transfers produce sheet BL48, Railtec transfers also do sets for Prestwin tanks, in 4mm scale they are 6770, 6771 and 6772.

 

Good luck with your project,

 

Gibbo.

[45568]

Thanks for the reply Gibbo, some food for thought there! I'll have a look at the Dapol chassis when the kits arrive, the dublo items are in the UK awaiting pickup/posting along with lots of other goodies, I am lucky that I have an address and nice person who will save my UK EBay purchases and post them in bulk/or wife/I collect them if we are visiting. It avoids the expensive mess EBay have made of posting overseas.

Thanks again and all the best for 2020,

Cheers from OZ,

Peter C.

[Fat Controller]

11 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Could the Essex customer be Pilkington, in Harlow? They had a glass factory there, I used to work opposite it. 

ISTR hearing about regular flow of Prestwins with alumia (or similar) to an abrasives firm near Welwyn Garden City; if I find any more, I'll post here.

[bescotbeast]

On 22/08/2010 at 18:39, StaffsOatcake said:

The ones used from Oakamoor to Port Sunlight carried industrial fine grade sand/powder (referred to as flour) for use in cleaning product such as Vim and various other products

So far I've only managed to find a glimpse of a Prestwin in 1965 on this video at 04:01

  I've never managed to find any pictures anywhere showing Prestwins at Oakamoor.

Edited November 13, 2021 by bescotbeast

[rodent279]

On 03/09/2018 at 13:20, 26power said:

From Ernie Brack's Flickr site, a colour view including a couple of Prestwins.  Perhaps this an appropriate thread for other decent pictures, given the announced Bachmann model?   (Couldn't find a specific thread for that model yet, and assuming this is the version they are producing!)

 

Shap Wells 92076 on Up Goods 06/08/66: https://flic.kr/p/293ibYz

So that answers a question:-did Prestwins and Presflos have the same discharge mechanism, and could they been seen together in the same train?

[Mark Saunders]

On 13/11/2021 at 19:28, rodent279 said:

So that answers a question:-did Prestwins and Presflos have the same discharge mechanism, and could they been seen together in the same train?

Not sure about the mechanism but the discharge was at a higher pressure!