hmrspaul Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Hi folks, I am having a go at modelling a standard BR ferry van using the old Hornby model as a basis. I have heard it rumoured that the body moulding on this model is 1mm too narrow. However, I've found a scale drawing of the van in Don Rowland's "British Railways Wagons - the First Half Million" (Leopard - ISBN 0 7529 0378 0). From the dimensions provided in that, I've calculated that the external body width (excluding the doors), should be 30mm (in 4mm scale). The width of the body moulding agrees precisely with that dimension and therefore appears to be spot-on. Can anyone shed any light on the true situation? Thanks Karl:( Karl There are NO scale drawings in Dons book, they are BR weight diagrams. Dimensions given are usually accurate (the given dimensions on BR diagram of 4 wheel Flatrol WW is 4 inches out!). An accurate drawing from the wagon was published in Bartlett, Paul W. & Mann, T., (1984) Cross Channel Ferry Wagons used on BR. Model Railway Constructor Annual 1985 pp 18 - 29, edited by Leigh, Chris. Drawings - BR 20t tank diag. 1/ 304; Lowmac SF diag. 2/254 ; BR 20t ferry van diag. 1/227 . Lots of photos BR Ferry vans; diagram 1/227 of 1962 and conversions – 36 photographs http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/show_collection.php?id=60920 Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Bridge Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Hi Mark, Yes, it would appear that there are a pair at Chinnor. Thanks for the advice. Could always pursue as a last resort. Kind regards Karl If you have a problem with published data them get yourself along to a real example with your tape measure. There are several preserved! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Bridge Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Hi Paul, Thanks for your advice, will try and seek out a copy of the book. Have already been studying photos on your website - what a fantastic resource! Cheers Karl:D Karl There are NO scale drawings in Dons book, they are BR weight diagrams. Dimensions given are usually accurate (the given dimensions on BR diagram of 4 wheel Flatrol WW is 4 inches out!). An accurate drawing from the wagon was published in Bartlett, Paul W. & Mann, T., (1984) Cross Channel Ferry Wagons used on BR. Model Railway Constructor Annual 1985 pp 18 - 29, edited by Leigh, Chris. Drawings - BR 20t tank diag. 1/ 304; Lowmac SF diag. 2/254 ; BR 20t ferry van diag. 1/227 . With the risk of being taken to be a terrorist I think the advice to measure one (if you could find one) is not very helpful. B) Lots of photos BR Ferry vans; diagram 1/227 of 1962 and conversions – 36 photographs http://gallery6801.f...on.php?id=60920 Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Some discussion here. and here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/21940-ferry-wagons/page__p__217083__fromsearch__1#entry217083 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Topics merged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but recycling is all the rage, so.... Does anyone know if the Dapol-produced ex-airfix Interfrigo is flash free? I've seen a sugestion elsewhere that the moulds are a bit tired, and that I might be better looking for an older Airfix production - which is OK, as I'm probably not going to use all that much if anything from it. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The one I bought a couple of years ago was fine. The newer Dapol plastic is a bit soft and easily distorted, though; I prefer the Airfix brake van kits if I can find them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I recently built one of the Dapol ones, no real problems with flash. The worst Dapol kit I have built for flash was the Railbus model, but still not a real problem. I have painted it in a off white colour, and am pleased with how its turned out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2012 Keep in mind that the Airfix/Dapol Interfrigo wagon is 1:87 rather than 1:76. Other than that, a nice kit and aftermarket parts have been available to improve the ladders/walkways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Keep in mind that the Airfix/Dapol Interfrigo wagon is 1:87 rather than 1:76. Other than that, a nice kit and aftermarket parts have been available to improve the ladders/walkways. I'm very aware of the scale, I'm simply pondering if there is anything of value in the kit as a donor when I build a 4mm wagon. Apart from the Obsidian etch we have already discussed on this thread (but which I've still not seen), and the transfers and buffers available form Andy Hart, I'm not aware of any other detailing kits for these - if I build one I'll probably do my own etched bits. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I've been thinking about these vans for some time, and my conclusion was that this type was probably the closest match http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/32532-van-neg-n20-0011-ibefs-interfrigo-83-fs-809-2-572-9/ So with that in mind I ordered two Dapol interfrigo's from a supplier on ebay, and concluded that SFV6299 was probably what I was after - these vans seem to have been registered across multiple countries, which all have their own entry in the SFV book, however I believe that they were more or less the same, and this version of the diagram had rather better detail than the others. Taking the principle dimentions rescaled the drawing to 4mm and waited for the kits to arrive. They must have been delivered on Saturday, but despite being correctly adressed, they seem to have been delivered to a nearby road instead and sat on their doormat until they were hand delivered this afternoon. First job was to assess how much could be re-used, and I think the answer may just be the roof! The body side is too short, and its not tall enough either, the ends suffer the same lack of hight (but are the right width) however it might be easier to just start from sheet than try and graft an extension to the bottom. The door is too small to re-use, and the ladders and underframe too corse. Anyway the razor saw came out almost imeadiately. jon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) http://i321.photobuc...ms/MCS_9104.jpg http://www.trenomania.org/TMF-Estero/displayimage.php?pid=5541&fullsize=1 Jon Edited August 5, 2012 by jonhall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) The two parts of the roof were glued together and reinforced with a small sheet of 10thou plasticard, and with a strip of something thicker at the cantrail line, then once that had set, a skim of car body filler to even out the gaps last night. The sides were cut from 30thou, and the ends from 40thou, but then I discovered that I'd cut the sides too short, so I had to start again . The door apertures were scribed with a micromark scriber, using a door from the Dapol kit as a template to get the corner radius about right. Edited August 6, 2012 by jonhall 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruciethefish Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Looking most promising! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm a bit concerned that this photo http://www.trenomania.org/TMF-Estero/displayimage.php?pid=5541&fullsize=1 might actually show the doors sitting further back from the side of the wagon (which would explain why the roof has a little joggle in it) the other photo's are not really clear, but if anyone has more photo's of these types I would really like a look at them please? Thanks, Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm a bit concerned that this photo http://www.trenomani...5541&fullsize=1 might actually show the doors sitting further back from the side of the wagon (which would explain why the roof has a little joggle in it) the other photo's are not really clear, but if anyone has more photo's of these types I would really like a look at them please? Thanks, Jon There is a photo which amazingly is almost identical to the one you included earlier, taken in Rochester. It is 01 83 8090 008 in December 1982 by Bob Wallace, page 106 in Marshall A (1990) International ferry wagons 1st edition pub by Metro Enterprises Ltd, , Baildon, Shipley ISBN 0-947773-20-7. 144 pages There is a shadow around the door - I think it is set into the side. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) The b&w print is one of David Larkins - he seems to have given a load of not very well printed and ex-album photo's to the group restoring a Pecket at the Lavender line, and at 10p each I sorted all of the ferry wagons, and other 'interesting' wagons out and had no change from a ten pound note. A very similar veiw is in his Bradford Barton PO wagons working wagons vol1 book. I can't decide if I could get away with a 10thou sheet over the sides (just leaving the door area clear) would do the job, or if the whole lot needs to comne apart again. Jon Edited August 11, 2012 by jonhall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) link to another photo - one of my favourites http://www.flickr.co...els/3816531335/ http://www.flickr.co...tcwp/2220852453 http://www.rmweb.co...._25#entry502482 http://www.flickr.com/photos/46591720@N07/6074386384/ Edited August 7, 2012 by jonhall 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 link to another photo - one of my favourites http://www.flickr.co...els/3816531335/ http://www.flickr.co...tcwp/2220852453 http://www.rmweb.co...._25#entry502482 http://www.flickr.co...N07/6074386384/ Jon, very nice. That last one will give apoplexy to some of the H&S police on this site! It is a pity no details are given of date or place. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 There is a photo which amazingly is almost identical to the one you included earlier, taken in Rochester. It is 01 83 8090 008 in December 1982 by Bob Wallace, page 106 in Marshall A (1990) International ferry wagons 1st edition pub by Metro Enterprises Ltd, , Baildon, Shipley ISBN 0-947773-20-7. 144 pages There is a shadow around the door - I think it is set into the side. Paul Bartlett Another one at Rochester (from my gallery at http://www.rmweb.co....fs-809-2-572-9/ ) and I wonder if I bumped into Bob at some stage... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Another one at Rochester (from my gallery at http://www.rmweb.co....fs-809-2-572-9/ ) and I wonder if I bumped into Bob at some stage... Thanks for that EastWset Divide, I did link to that earlier, as its by far and away the most useful photo I have of these vans. This shows progress tonight The whole lot was dismantled, the door sections cut out, and mounted 30thou further back, and I've started to tweek the roof profile over the doors to improve the shape a bit - its looking a bit rough, so this might just become a prototype conversion. Jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Another one at Rochester (from my gallery at http://www.rmweb.co....fs-809-2-572-9/ ) and I wonder if I bumped into Bob at some stage... Yes that is the one I meant is very similar to the one published by Marshall. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) This evening has seen the cantrail attached, and something that hasn't happened for some years occured - I didn't have the right size plasticard in stock - I wanted 30x30thou, but had to settle for 30x40, as those who have seen my stock of plasticard will atest, an unlikely occurance. Having set the cantrail I used a little of my favourite plastic filler (Tipex, or in this case the WHSmiths equivilent) to even out the jiggle in the roof above the door. Final job for this evening (and not complete on both sides yet) was to start on the outside framing. Here too I didn't have the right size plasticard, but thats more to do with it not actually existing! Evergreen do not do a 60thou [ section, so I had to trim two of the legs off 60thou H section. Wich leaves the state of play shown below There won't be any progress tomorrow evening, as I have an Olympic Park ticket, and I have the horrible feeling that the '3 hour' upgrade on RM web tomorrow morning, may result in it being u/s until Monday or Tuesday.... see you on the other side. Jon Edited August 9, 2012 by jonhall 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Jon, very nice. That last one will give apoplexy to some of the H&S police on this site! It is a pity no details are given of date or place. Paul, I did wonder if that one might be at Hull (or nearby) in the late 70's or early 80's as a number of the other photo's in that set are in that area - I guess there would still have been fish traffic? Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Jon (and Paul), That shot with the small boy on the access ladder reminds me of the bit of Stratford LIFT which BR often used for the photos of ferry-wagons in their Data Sheets- it's the platform canopy that does it. The other Interfrigo in the background's an interesting one- it's one of the Transfesa fleet, hence the red stripe. After about the mid-1970s, the only fish traffic I've heard about was the run from Mallaig to Grimsby, which used the later type of Interfrigo with the 'Hawkesworth' ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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