RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 3, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2010 I recently went to Sunderland for the day and drove up to Seaburn and along the coast just north of Sunderland saw a pub on the seafront with 2 coaches outside the pub. They were pullman coaches and what intrigued me was that they both had 12 wheel bogies which is unusual these days. Though they were in a dark brown livery they had no names or number visible. Does anyone know the Identity and possibly history of these two coaches. Thanks Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Can't help too much other than to provide a Streetview link - My link and say that the hotel's website mentions Rosalind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar Side Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Aparently PADUA and Rosalind: http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/PCP2008.pdf Ivan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 3, 2010 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2010 Thanks for that It's nice to find out what they are. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Hi Jamie. The late R.W.Kidner's book "Pullman Trains in Britain", ISBN 0 85361 531 4, Oakwood Press 1998, shows three Pullman cars preserved at the Pullman Lodge Hotel, Seaburn. PADUA Blt.1920, ROSALIND Blt.1921 & SAPPHIRE. (Kitchen 1st.) Blt.1910. The 1910 cars were 8-wheelers. PADUA (Kitchen 1st.) was re-modelled into Parlour (Brake ?) 3rd. No.99 in early B.R. days. ROSALIND (Kitchen 1st.) appeared differently (window sizes & arrangement) in B.R. days, than in Andy Y's link. It may have had its windows altered when converted to a Holiday Coach after being withdrawn and sold to B.R. Regards, Frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Going by that long list of surviving cars, not many Pullmans have ever been scrapped? Being mostly wooden I guess they wouldn't be worth much in that respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 3, 2010 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2010 Hi Jamie. The late R.W.Kidner's book "Pullman Trains in Britain", ISBN 0 85361 531 4, Oakwood Press 1998, shows three Pullman cars preserved at the Pullman Lodge Hotel, Seaburn. PADUA Blt.1920, ROSALIND Blt.1921 & SAPPHIRE. (Kitchen 1st.) Blt.1910. The 1910 cars were 8-wheelers. PADUA (Kitchen 1st.) was re-modelled into Parlour (Brake ?) 3rd. No.99 in early B.R. days. ROSALIND (Kitchen 1st.) appeared differently (window sizes & arrangement) in B.R. days, than in Andy Y's link. It may have had its windows altered when converted to a Holiday Coach after being withdrawn and sold to B.R. Regards, Frank. These two are definitely both 12 wheelers. It was the bogies that cought my attention as I drove past while trying not to get shouted at by the boss for looking at railway related things. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 These two are definitely both 12 wheelers. It was the bogies that cought my attention as I drove past while trying not to get shouted at by the boss for looking at railway related things. Jamie Yeah.... I was only pointing out that the third Pullman, 'SAPPHIRE', is an 8-wheeler. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 3, 2010 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2010 Yeah.... I was only pointing out that the third Pullman, 'SAPPHIRE', is an 8-wheeler. Regards. Sorry about that I' didn't read your post thoroughly. There were definitely only 2 so I wonder what happenned to the 3rd one. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Going by that long list of surviving cars, not many Pullmans have ever been scrapped? Being mostly wooden I guess they wouldn't be worth much in that respect. Sadly, those that were converted to Camping Coaches and put out to grass in sidings on the Southern Region in the mid sixties were torched where they stood, mostly during the Bournemouth electrification. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46011 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 I always thought there were three carriages, but apparently there are four. This website (if you scroll near the bottom of the page) has a recent trip to the Pullman Lodge Hotel, and if you click on this website and select the "Present Location" as "Seaburn", gives you the history of the four cars. I was tempted to go and photograph them after seen this thread, but they would just be repeating the photos from the first link. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Further to 46011 posting, there are indeed four coaches on site. Another 12 wheeler and a Mk 1. The two 12 wheelers at the front are as might be expected very faded and the underframes are home to many seabirds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Further to 46011 posting, there are indeed four coaches on site. Another 12 wheeler and a Mk 1. The two 12 wheelers at the front are as might be expected very faded and the underframes are home to many seabirds. Hi Judge Dread. Are you sure that the third Pullman (The one behind the two facing the road) is a 12-wheeler ?. I've got it down as being 'SAPPHIRE', one of the 1910-1913 batch, which were 8-wheelers. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Hi Judge Dread. Are you sure that the third Pullman (The one behind the two facing the road) is a 12-wheeler ?. I've got it down as being 'SAPPHIRE', one of the 1910-1913 batch, which were 8-wheelers. Regards. To be honest, no I'm not sure. The photographs in question were taken atleast two years ago and a view of the underframe of that coach is serverly limited from the outside and none existent from inside of the building. On the balance of probibility you will be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 To be honest, no I'm not sure. The photographs in question were taken atleast two years ago and a view of the underframe of that coach is serverly limited from the outside and none existent from inside of the building. On the balance of probibility you will be right. Cheers for that, J.D., and thanks for the pix., and the links Andy Y, Bar Side and 46011. As for the coaches' confirmed I.D., and histories, it may well pay some thirsty, passing (railway buff) traveller, to call in for a pint, and have a word with the Landlord. It's a bit (300 miles) out of my way though. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrob Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Ahh, i remember these coaches from my childhood. My gran lives round the corner from them, so next time im up there ill take a few pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 8, 2010 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2010 And if you do go there is a superb seafood shop just further north on the other side of the road. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mow Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I was thinking about a pub at Chingford, formerly known as The Horseless Carriage, which had Gwen - First class Pullman kitchen car for diners. I was quite surprised to read that it had been returned to working order and is now used on The VSOE Pullman set. http://www.orient-express.com/web/uktr/british_pullman_carriages.jsp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidnutter Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Apologies for dragging this up from the depths. But http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/sunderland-s-seafront-train-carriages-reopen-as-tea-rooms-1-6712871 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted July 6, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 6, 2014 Apologies for dragging this up from the depths. But http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/sunderland-s-seafront-train-carriages-reopen-as-tea-rooms-1-6712871 That's good new3s. I'll have to try and call in next time we go up to that area. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I thought 'Rosalind' rang a bell............. . My notes show I saw "Rosalind" in departmental service and numbered DW150431 at Cardiff, Canton on Saturday 31st July, 1971 . It was in company with "Car No.99" which was by then departmental DW150430 . Also on shed were two other Metro-Cammell cars, No.s 340 and 344 displaced from the Eastern Region . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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