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Chaldron wagons in 4mm scale


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IIRC Chilton Ironworks produced a kit, although I doubt that its still available.

They also produced the book 'Private Owner Wagons of the North East - volume one - The Chaldrons' written by John Elliott (published in '94). Full of usefull drawings for scratchbuilders.

Hope that helps.

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IIRC Chilton Ironworks produced a kit, although I doubt that its still available.

They also produced the book 'Private Owner Wagons of the North East - volume one - The Chaldrons' written by John Elliott (published in '94). Full of usefull drawings for scratchbuilders.

Hope that helps.

 

I don't think there was a volume two, however instead they produced

 

Elliott, John & Charlton, Derek (1994) Backworth An illustrated history of the mines and railways. Publ. Chilton Iron Works, Tyne & Wear, 116 pages ISBN 09523672 1 1

 

This has a few more photographs of the chaldrons, but also is good for illustrating some of the smaller hoppers which developed from them. As well as a great deal about where these wagon types worked.

 

Sorry not easy to get this - the one on Abe books is more than £160 (not a typo!) Mines going straight into a cover!

 

Several of the Chaldron wagon book are also on Abe books, rather more reasonable £11 - 12 plus postage.

Paul Bartlett

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I don't think there was a volume two, however instead they produced

 

Elliott, John & Charlton, Derek (1994) Backworth An illustrated history of the mines and railways. Publ. Chilton Iron Works, Tyne & Wear, 116 pages ISBN 09523672 1 1

 

This has a few more photographs of the chaldrons, but also is good for illustrating some of the smaller hoppers which developed from them. As well as a great deal about where these wagon types worked.

 

Sorry not easy to get this - the one on Abe books is more than £160 (not a typo!) Mines going straight into a cover!

 

Several of the Chaldron wagon book are also on Abe books, rather more reasonable £11 - 12 plus postage.

Paul Bartlett

 

One here - £16.00 :)

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Hello all,

 

I know Chilton Iron Works did a kit in 4mmm, but it, (and they), seem to have disappeared around 2003. Someone must have the masters/original artwork for the etches somewhere? I don't fancy scratching building twenty of these vehicles, but if needs must, then needs must.

 

Once again, many thanks for all the replies.

 

Grant

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I was chatting about what happened to the Chiltern Ironworks range only last year, in fact the owner simply lost interest and retains the entire range of wagon and loco kits. Apparently he is not interested in selling them on, nor re-releasing them.

 

Bad news really as they were a useful range and you NEVER see them second hand.

 

Tony

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Hello all,

 

I know Chilton Iron Works did a kit in 4mmm, but it, (and they), seem to have disappeared around 2003. Someone must have the masters/original artwork for the etches somewhere? I don't fancy scratching building twenty of these vehicles, but if needs must, then needs must.

 

Once again, many thanks for all the replies.

 

Grant

Do they have to be in brass? If you scratch built one as a kit of parts, in any material you feel happy working in, I would be prepared to look at them with a view to casting them in resin. Twenty is an ideal run for one set of moulds and if more were needed you've still got the masters. A quick thought is separate sides and ends and a one piece solebar/bufferbeam/chassis with separate 'w' iron/axleboxes.

I'll be away from tomorrow until Friday but think about it and if you are interested get back to me.

 

Phil Traxson

Port Wynnstay Models

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Do they have to be in brass? If you scratch built one as a kit of parts, in any material you feel happy working in, I would be prepared to look at them with a view to casting them in resin. Twenty is an ideal run for one set of moulds and if more were needed you've still got the masters. A quick thought is separate sides and ends and a one piece solebar/bufferbeam/chassis with separate 'w' iron/axleboxes.

I'll be away from tomorrow until Friday but think about it and if you are interested get back to me.

 

Phil Traxson

Port Wynnstay Models

 

Hello Phil, whilst i'm not the best scratch-builder on the planet, I'll give considerable thought to you kind offer.

 

Grant

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I was chatting about what happened to the Chiltern Ironworks range only last year, in fact the owner simply lost interest and retains the entire range of wagon and loco kits. Apparently he is not interested in selling them on, nor re-releasing them.

 

Bad news really as they were a useful range and you NEVER see them second hand.

 

Tony

Bad news :( - seems downright selfish IMO

I don't see any other reason.

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They also produced the book 'Private Owner Wagons of the North East - volume one - The Chaldrons' written by John Elliott (published in '94). Full of usefull drawings for scratchbuilders.

Hope that helps.

 

Mine came today and is a mine of information sorry :blush:

 

 

Bad news :( - seems downright selfish IMO

I don't see any other reason.

 

Well said Kenton there are too many black holes that good kits are disapering into and nether come out again.

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How long will it be from making a master to having a kit availaible to buy?

In simplistic terms, if the masters are well made so that you can make moulds from them and the castings actually go together it's a bit longer than the rubber mould takes to cure and then the castings take to cure and pack. After that it's down to how long the post takes. The longest part is actually making the masters.

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Industrial,

 

How long will it be from making a master to having a kit availaible to buy?

 

Grant

 

If it is a plastic no masters is needed as it will be done as a drawing then cut out of metal. Once the runners and ejection pins have ben done production can start. In the case it will need a master to be scratch built to make the master. The tooling for the plastic kits will be more but the kits will cost less and the moulding tools will last for years.

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If it is a plastic no masters is needed as it will be done as a drawing then cut out of metal. Once the runners and ejection pins have ben done production can start. In the case it will need a master to be scratch built to make the master. The tooling for the plastic kits will be more but the kits will cost less and the moulding tools will last for years.

 

It's not quite as simple as you make out to make tooling for injection moulding plastic, and for low volume sales, which the chaldron will be, will almost certainly be uneconomic.

Just consider the quote for a wagon wheel centre to fit an available rim, which I needed, was over £300 and go from there, patternmaking is not cheap in any medium.

Just think how long it takes to research and scratchbuild one side, one end and the chassis of a basic wagon, which is what is needed for a simple wagon kit, and then multiply that by around £15 per hour and you will have a rough idea of the cost.

Remember you are paying for the skill of the patternmaker and the cost of the machines he is using, for simple plasticard masters this will only be a rule, square, knife and glue plus the research and ability to read(and probably make) and work to a drawing, still not cheap, but not as expensive as the thousands invested in machine tools for making injection moulding tools.

 

My offer to look at resin casting the kits still stands, but I will need some one to provide the patterns as I no longer have the time to do this. I think it would be best if the patternmaker and I met so that what he made was compatible with my production methods.

 

Phil Traxson

Port Wynnstay Models

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Remember you are paying for the skill of the patternmaker and the cost of the machines he is using, for simple plasticard masters this will only be a rule, square, knife and glue plus the research and ability to read(and probably make) and work to a drawing, still not cheap, but not as expensive as the thousands invested in machine tools for making injection moulding tools.

 

Please excuse the ignorance of the subject evidently displayed by this question:

 

Is it not possible to use "modern" laser cutting techniques in pattern making and would this not only be more accurate taken from a good CAD drawing but also possibly cheaper?

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Please excuse the ignorance of the subject evidently displayed by this question:

 

Is it not possible to use "modern" laser cutting techniques in pattern making and would this not only be more accurate taken from a good CAD drawing but also possibly cheaper?

Very accurate but again not cheap due to the cost of the machinery in the first place. Well worth investigating though.

 

Phil Traxson.

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not cheap due to the cost of the machinery in the first place.

Ah, but I wasn't proposing that the "pattern maker" or designer should invest in the laser equipment rather that the services of someone with the equipment could be used.

For someone only producing a small range of models the equipment would be really expensive by comparison.

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Ah, but I wasn't proposing that the "pattern maker" or designer should invest in the laser equipment rather that the services of someone with the equipment could be used.

For someone only producing a small range of models the equipment would be really expensive by comparison.

 

I was thinking along the same lines, even that ain't cheap though!

 

Phil T.

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