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TCS programming with LENZ


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HELLO ALL

 

I have been trying to program a TCS FL4 decoder on my lenz system but nothing will happen, just go's into error. Has anybody been able to do this, probably straight forward, if you have please let me know.

 

Many thanks

Bondy

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It is most likely that you are having the problem described in the thread on the DCC questions forum here about the Farish 150. Sorry I can't link to this at present as the link button appears to be more than this primitive mobile connection can cope with! Ignore any solutions relating to the motor circuit as the FL4 doesn't have one.

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HELLO ALL

 

I have been trying to program a TCS FL4 decoder on my lenz system but nothing will happen, just go's into error. Has anybody been able to do this, probably straight forward, if you have please let me know.

 

Many thanks

Bondy

 

I would assume the error message is error 02.

 

Try a 100ohm resistor connected to one of the function wires and the blue common wire on decoder.

 

Much easier to do if decoder is programed in a decoder tester before fitting to rolling stock etc.

 

IMHO a decoder tester is must have in any DCC operators kit.

 

Sunny

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I would assume the error message is error 02.

 

Try a 100ohm resistor connected to one of the function wires and the blue common wire on decoder.

 

Much easier to do if decoder is programed in a decoder tester before fitting to rolling stock etc.

 

IMHO a decoder tester is must have in any DCC operators kit.

 

I agree on likely diagnosis.

 

Decoder tester = two LEDs and a couple of resistors, plus some screw terminals. Anything more sophisticated is fine, but hardly necessary.

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It should work if you connect the 100 ohm resistor between the blue wire and one of the function wires you aren't using for the lights. Either remove it when you finish or, if you want to leave it in place, you need to change the CVs so that function wire is NEVER activated.

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It should work if you connect the 100 ohm resistor between the blue wire and one of the function wires you aren't using for the lights. Either remove it when you finish or, if you want to leave it in place, you need to change the CVs so that function wire is NEVER activated.

 

 

Cheers for info Edwin

 

So i can change a cv that will allow to program, without hooking up the blue wire. I am currently using all 4 functions, so do i disconnect one then, and connect a resisitor??

 

bondy

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Cheers for info Edwin

 

So i can change a cv that will allow to program, without hooking up the blue wire. I am currently using all 4 functions, so do i disconnect one then, and connect a resisitor??

 

bondy

 

If you are using all the function wires already then there is no need to change any CVs apart from the ones you need to make your functions operate on the right buttons. Simply add the resistor in parallel with, or instead of, whatever is between the blue wire and any of the function wires, whichever is easiest to get at. However you have to remove the resistor when you finish programming and put it back if you ever want to program again. Also do not leave the function with the resistor turned on for more than a second or so or the resistor will overheat.

 

I think the FL2 decoder mentioned by BromsMods has a special circuit to avoid this problem. However it also only has two functions.

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hello all

 

Still no joy with this problem, the decoder has all the functions used, and a resister is connected between the blue wire and a express models lighting board. But when i try to program the decoder I get an error message er02. Not sure what the problem is, any more ideas? I think i will disconnect the lighting board and see waht happens from there.

 

bondy

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If you are getting error 02 it should only stop programming in page mode from working - in all other programming methods the error message will only be displayed once the programming has already been completed. If you are using page mode try changing to direct mode instead, or set the address using one of the other programming methods and then use 'programming on the main' to change the rest of the CVs.

 

 

 

 

Suzie x

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello

 

I have now removed the decoder from the lighting board and connected a 100 ohm resistor between the blue wire and one of the functions. However when I try to read a cv on the lenz sysytem I get an error code, ER02. Which i cant understand at all?? Any ideas?

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Could be of course that either the decoder isn't working or there is a problem between the decoder and the track - the sort of problem error 2 is intended to detect! The last FL4s I bought had a black and white wire which should be decoder ground - if you have one of those it is worth checking whether there is about 12Vdc between that and the blue, otherwise look for a smaller DC voltage between the blue and each of the two rails. If these are OK your track connections are all right. Also you could try a decoder reset to get it into a known state, and see if any of the lights respond to functions f2 upwards on address 3, which I think is the default mapping for a FL4.

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hello all

 

Still no joy with this problem, the decoder has all the functions used, and a resister is connected between the blue wire and a express models lighting board. But when i try to program the decoder I get an error message er02. Not sure what the problem is, any more ideas? I think i will disconnect the lighting board and see waht happens from there.

 

bondy

 

Hi

Express Models replacement light circuits/boards normally have the required resistors on the circuit board - one for each function output = 4. The blue common wire normally connects directly to the original circuit wiring, without any resistors . A TCS FL4 being a 4 function only decoder[/u] ? really needs to programmed etc prior to fitting. As once fitted/working any second "function only" decoder becomes invisible to the command station, it only sees/reads the main motor drive one.

I'd suggest you disconnect the FL4 from the Ex Models circuit board/wires and start again.

To programme the FL4: Connect the Red + Black wires to the track - programming track ?. Then temporarily connect a 1K resistor between the BLUE common wire and ONE of the function output wires ie Green/Purple/Brown/Pink. This will provide a load - but not enough to trip the Lenz cut-out - ie error etc etc) Select "Direct" then ADR in programming mode - Check/Set the required address, (NOTE: If you can't read or set the address there could be a problem with the decoder ?) select CV then map the functions to the required buttons etc, then remove the 1K resistor. Re-connect it up to the Ex models wiring as per the instructions supplied, fit and test - job done.

As for expensive decoder testers, jury's still out ? but if you feel you need one, make up your own basic (rough & ready) one for a fraction of the cost - see below

Hope this is of some help

Ken

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? To programme the FL4: Connect the Red + Black wires to the track - programming track ?. Then temporarily connect a 1K resistor between the BLUE common wire and ONE of the function output wires ie Green/Purple/Brown/Pink. This will provide a load - but not enough to trip the Lenz cut-out? 

 

1K is too large a resistor - it will draw less than 20mA when you will need 60mA to guarantee acknowledgement. If you need to read the decoder use 100R as the temporary resistor.

 

 

There really is no need to add the temporary resistor though if you do not need to read and are not using page mode programming.

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1K is too large a resistor - it will draw less than 20mA when you will need 60mA to guarantee acknowledgement. If you need to read the decoder use 100R as the temporary resistor.

 

 

There really is no need to add the temporary resistor though if you do not need to read and are not using page mode programming.

 

Hi Suzie

Thanks for pointing out my typo error - yes it should be a 100ohm not a 1kohm resistor used. However as the FL4 is a function only decoder with NO motor drive, this temporary resistor connection across one function wire and blue(common) as a load is necessary to programme using (direct mode on programming track) it prior to fitting/using for the first time, otherwise the the command station can't read it. www.tcsdcc.com is an excellent website with all the necessary information and more if needed.

Ken

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Thanks again for replies.

 

I have now removed the chip from the ex. models lighting board, and connected a 100 ohm resistor to one of the function wires.....however the with the chip connected to the programming track it still will not read cv1, still get ER2, does this mean that the decoder is faulty???

 

bondy

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Bondy, Once you have finished wiring it all in, did you actually check it was working by putting it on the track and checking that the lights worked, when using address 3 ? I know some will say it's a bit dangerous, but if you have wired everything correctly then it's one way of checking the decoder works. I have used a lot of FL4's and find them extremely good, but are a pain to program the address. So I usually put a bulb across the blue and first output wire and attach the red and black wires to my program track. Then program CV1 using the CV program mode, rather than the Direct mode, not sure if you understand that, but I use a Lenz LH100 for programming if that helps.

 

I've done about 8 158 units with Express Lights and have never had a problem with programming them, but I always get an Err2 feedback initially, but they do program if you program in CV mode. It will look like they do not but it will work. So solder it all back together, check everything is correct, then program it in CV mode and then put it on the track and give it a try. E-mail me direct if you are still having problems.

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... a load is necessary to programme using (direct mode on programming track) it prior to fitting/using for the first time, otherwise the the command station can't read it.

The title of this thread is programming with Lenz. I have programmed function decoders with Lenz and there is no requirement to read a decoder (TCS or otherwise) when programming in direct mode any more than there is when programming on the main. The Error 2 can just be ignored when programming on the program track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bondy, Once you have finished wiring it all in, did you actually check it was working by putting it on the track and checking that the lights worked, when using address 3 ? I know some will say it's a bit dangerous, but if you have wired everything correctly then it's one way of checking the decoder works. I have used a lot of FL4's and find them extremely good, but are a pain to program the address. So I usually put a bulb across the blue and first output wire and attach the red and black wires to my program track. Then program CV1 using the CV program mode, rather than the Direct mode, not sure if you understand that, but I use a Lenz LH100 for programming if that helps.

 

I've done about 8 158 units with Express Lights and have never had a problem with programming them, but I always get an Err2 feedback initially, but they do program if you program in CV mode. It will look like they do not but it will work. So solder it all back together, check everything is correct, then program it in CV mode and then put it on the track and give it a try. E-mail me direct if you are still having problems.

 

Hey Tony

 

Thanks for the advice with this problem, I have now removed the FL4 from the lighting board and tried program direct on my programming track, but still i get ER02 all the time. I havent tried in CV mode but will give it a go. I take it you dont bother with the 100ohm resistor then?

 

Bondy

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Hey Tony

 

Thanks for the advice with this problem, I have now removed the FL4 from the lighting board and tried program direct on my programming track, but still i get ER02 all the time. I havent tried in CV mode but will give it a go. I take it you dont bother with the 100ohm resistor then?

 

Bondy

 

Hi Bondy

It would appear your still having problems ? . See below for the manu FL4 programming instructions from the TCS web-site. Hopefully this will be of some help in solving this problem for you.

 

Programming FL4's

 

>> We suggest that when trying to program an FL4 on the programming track you connect a 100 ohm resistor between one of the function wires and the blue wire and that you also have no light bulbs or LEDs connected to any of the function wires. To achieve this, it is probably best if you program your FL4s using alligator leads before you install it into the locomotive or car and before you have any light bulbs hooked up to it. This protects you from having to unsolder the lights from the decoder in order to program it. Of course this is only for programming on the programming track, the decoder will program fine on the main track no matter what, so the only thing that you have to program before you install it is the address, everything else can be programmed on the main in ops mode. If you would like a more detailed reason for why this is continue reading.

 

>> When a command station reads back CVs on the programming track it first sends out a packet of information that the decoder must respond to so that the command station knows that there is a decoder actually there. According to NMRA standard the response from the decoder must be a minimum of 60mA, so the way decoders send that response is they send a short burst of electricity to the motor, the command station senses the rise of current on the track and then reads back the CV. The problem, however, is that the FL4 does not have a motor circuit so we have to use the function leads to raise the current on the programming track and most bulbs or LEDs draw anywhere from 10-30 mA of current, which is only 1/6 to 1/2 of the current needed. This, of course, is not enough current for the command station to recognize, so you cannot read back CVs on the programming track using bulbs or LEDs. As a way to get around this, we suggest attaching a 100 ohm resister between a function lead and the blue wire, which is the positive common. At a track voltage of 12 volts a 100 ohm resistor would be drawing 120 mA of current, which is two times the amount necessary for a command station to recognize a decoder on the track. The problem, however, is that command stations also have a maximum current allowed on the programming track, and that maximum current is not regulated by NMRA standards. So if you have a 100 ohm resistor connected to a function lead and you also have bulbs or LEDs on other function leads you may then be drawing too much current and then you will also not be able to read back CVs. This is why we suggest that you program on the programming track with only a 100 ohm resistor connected to one function lead, and nothing else hooked up to the decoder.

 

Regards

Ken

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Hi Bondy

It would appear your still having problems ? . See below for the manu FL4 programming instructions from the TCS web-site. Hopefully this will be of some help in solving this problem for you.

 

Programming FL4's

 

>> We suggest that when trying to program an FL4 on the programming track you connect a 100 ohm resistor between one of the function wires and the blue wire and that you also have no light bulbs or LEDs connected to any of the function wires. To achieve this, it is probably best if you program your FL4s using alligator leads before you install it into the locomotive or car and before you have any light bulbs hooked up to it. This protects you from having to unsolder the lights from the decoder in order to program it. Of course this is only for programming on the programming track, the decoder will program fine on the main track no matter what, so the only thing that you have to program before you install it is the address, everything else can be programmed on the main in ops mode. If you would like a more detailed reason for why this is continue reading.

 

>> When a command station reads back CVs on the programming track it first sends out a packet of information that the decoder must respond to so that the command station knows that there is a decoder actually there. According to NMRA standard the response from the decoder must be a minimum of 60mA, so the way decoders send that response is they send a short burst of electricity to the motor, the command station senses the rise of current on the track and then reads back the CV. The problem, however, is that the FL4 does not have a motor circuit so we have to use the function leads to raise the current on the programming track and most bulbs or LEDs draw anywhere from 10-30 mA of current, which is only 1/6 to 1/2 of the current needed. This, of course, is not enough current for the command station to recognize, so you cannot read back CVs on the programming track using bulbs or LEDs. As a way to get around this, we suggest attaching a 100 ohm resister between a function lead and the blue wire, which is the positive common. At a track voltage of 12 volts a 100 ohm resistor would be drawing 120 mA of current, which is two times the amount necessary for a command station to recognize a decoder on the track. The problem, however, is that command stations also have a maximum current allowed on the programming track, and that maximum current is not regulated by NMRA standards. So if you have a 100 ohm resistor connected to a function lead and you also have bulbs or LEDs on other function leads you may then be drawing too much current and then you will also not be able to read back CVs. This is why we suggest that you program on the programming track with only a 100 ohm resistor connected to one function lead, and nothing else hooked up to the decoder.

 

Regards

Ken

 

ken

 

I have finally got it to work, programming in direct mode!! The lights all work, but F1 does not switch the marker lights on until the direction toggle switch is moved in one direction, is this correct can it be changed? Also when i try to put on the marker lights and one of the headlamps, the lights flash off and on, and sometimes even the tail lights light up!! Is this an overload problem? Or is there a Cv that requires changing?

 

Also how do you normally set up your 158 units, this is a three car set with 2xFL4's, do you use individual adresses for each one....etc?

 

many thanks for the help

 

bondy

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I've an idea that when the loco is completely new to the command station, it is set to neither direction. As soon as you select a direction it is remembered even if the command station is turned off and on again (but not if it is reset). So hopefully you won't have the direcdtion problem again.

 

I'd programme both FL4s to the same address.

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