RMweb Premium dmsmith Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 3, 2009 As a relative newcomer to DCC, I have had some success with using Lenz Silver decoders in the small number of locos that I have. However, decoders from other sources are considerably cheaper. Given that I have followed the DCC route only for the improvement in slow-speed running that it provides, rather than because of the functions available, is there a significant advantage in paying more for something like a Lenz Silver Plus decoder, or might I be just as well off sticking to something cheaper like the Bachmann 36-553? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 Lenz decoders tend to work well with most locos out of the box. You might find that a 36-553 will work out of the box or possibly with some tweaking of CVs. On the other hand it might be horrible. They don't like older Bachmann 3 pole motors such as that fitted to the Crab in my experience. If you want to save some pennies why not consider a Lenz Standard which has less functions but the same motor control circuit (as far as I know). Other options include TCS which are particularly suited to Bachmann split chassis steamers (unlike Lenz Silver Minis oddly) Best bet is to say what locos you have and ask what other folks have fitted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dmsmith Posted November 3, 2009 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thank you for the really quick and helpful reply. I have just bought a couple of Bachmann Class 20s to run as a pair, so any difference in cost would be doubled! I am happy to spend some time tweaking CVs if necessary, but have to confess that this aspect of DCC doesn't interest me too much, so would be prepared to pay a slight premium for a decoder that works well, even if not quite perfectly, straight away. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 OK, not sure what I put in my 20, I'll whip the top off tonight if I can remember, it's either a Lenz Standard or a Bachmann 36-553. The class 20 is a very high quality mechanism so should be okay with a 36-553, but I'll check tonight. If four digit addessing is an issue to you make sure that your 36-553s are the later type - there's still a lot of 2 digit only ones on dealers shelves. Open up the box if you can and make sure the info sheet states that is accepts "short or long addressing" and the info sheet carries the version number "v2 11/07" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The Bachmann decoders I had tended to reset their address to 3 every so often and performance as well as noise levels weren't as good. TCS is a cheaper choice and their new chips now feature back-emf. There is however a benefit to standardising on one chip if you can. The Lenz range does tend to 'just work' without needing any CV tweaking. Zimo is another good make and although they used to always be more expensive than Lenz recent price changes have made them more competitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 There is however a benefit to standardising on one chip if you can. The Lenz range does tend to 'just work' without needing any CV tweaking. Zimo is another good make and although they used to always be more expensive than Lenz recent price changes have made them more competitive. agreed, although as I said before I've found Lenz Silver Minis to be very poor performers in Bachmann split chassis locos - TCS-M1s are much better suited "out of the box" and cost quite a bit less. I do tend to mix and match myself, always after a bargain and if I can use a ??9 Bachmann decoder or even a Hornby one and get away with it I will. My Hornby Stanier 8F runs on an original R8215 Hornby decoder and performance is flawless (although it does reset to address 03 when it receives a short - that's why this loco is always number 3 during an exhibition and I don;t have any other R8215s on the layout ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 While budget decoders offer a cost saving, don't expect to get the same level of performance or consistency from them, as from something like the Lenz Silver Plus. I use both the old Silver and Bachmann 36-553/554 and have got good results from both, but the 36-553 isn't always as smooth and can be a little noisy at times. Even though most decoders will run into the odd motor compatibility issue, I suspect the budget models are more likely to encounter these sort of problems. Judging from comments on this forum and others, that seems to be what others have experienced. As suggested by Redgate, try the Lenz Standard Plus. Same motor control (well I believe it is...?), but lacking a couple of functions....3 functions (or is it now 5 ?), as opposed to the 5 functions on the Silver Plus. The Standard Plus also lose's the ABC function. Both the Standard Plus and Silver Plus have Railcom, so if that matters it's a way of buying a cheaper decoder without losing the Railcom capability. If you are tempted by the Bachmann budget decoders, avoid the old 2-function model and stick to the 3-function models. These are made by ESU and have BEMF (switchable) for smoother running. Again, as Redgate says, watch out for old 2-digit address 36-553's left lying in stock and insist on the newer 4-digit address version. There's no such issue with the 36-554, which has always been a 4-digit address decoder. TCS get good reports, but I've no personal experience of them. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 Beware that some of the Bachmann decoders don't support advanced (cv19) consisting which may have a bearing on their suitability for use in class 20s. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-H Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi I have the Bachmann 21pin 3 function in my Bachmann class 20 and it runs as smooth as silk and the same for the class 24 as well I have also used their 8pin version in a number of locos without any problems BUT I also have a number of Bachmann Loco's (Ivatt 2, and standard 4MT's that ran like a puppy (Skipping and Jumping about) and the same with a Hornby Class 73) The fix with these is to remove the motor caps or if they are not easily accessable like on the Hornby Class 73 then turning off Back EMF also fixes it but with les realistic breaking as would be expected from turning the BEMF off. I also use a number of TCS, Digitrax and Lenz Decoders without any problems and also the Hornby decoder with the only issue being its habit of dropping wires at the drop of a hat. End of the day the Bachmann decoders 8 or 21 pin are only about ??9 so not much to lose if they dont perform, but a lot to save if they do. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 I said before I've found Lenz Silver Minis to be very poor performers in Bachmann split chassis locos - TCS-M1s are much better suited "out of the box" and cost quite a bit less. Hi Redgate Now you have me worried................ I am a relative newcomer to DCC ( and RR&Co) I started off with Lenz Silver, and they do indeed work flawlessly almost right out of the box, and then for cost reasons switched to a batch of TCS....M1s T1 and DPX..............I have to say I found them more erratic and requiring a lot more fiddling........so I came to the conclusion that I would standardise on Lenz and was just about to order 6 Silver minis to work through my Split Chassis Locos (left them to the last!!) 57xx and Manors.........should I rethink and go for M1s? I have to say I have only done a couple of split chassis a Mogul and a 57xx both with M1s...........the Mogul is fine but it did need some CV adjusting......and sadly I fried the 57xx Can you give more details of the problems with Lenz Silver Minis in Split Chassis? Many thanks Regards from a very sunny Vancouver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Worth looking at Zimo for a quality decoder. They can be found a little cheaper than the Lenz equivalents, have more features and most importantly offer excellent motor control with little need to adjust CVs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dmsmith Posted November 3, 2009 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. The obvious solution is indeed to try one of the newer Bachmann decoders. If I encounter problems, and lose patience in tweaking CVs, then it won't have been too much of a wasted investment, and I can try a Lenz standard. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 Just checked my 20 - Bachmann 36-553, no tweaks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 4, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi Redgate Now you have me worried................ I am a relative newcomer to DCC ( and RR&Co) I started off with Lenz Silver, and they do indeed work flawlessly almost right out of the box, and then for cost reasons switched to a batch of TCS....M1s T1 and DPX..............I have to say I found them more erratic and requiring a lot more fiddling........so I came to the conclusion that I would standardise on Lenz and was just about to order 6 Silver minis to work through my Split Chassis Locos (left them to the last!!) 57xx and Manors.........should I rethink and go for M1s? I have to say I have only done a couple of split chassis a Mogul and a 57xx both with M1s...........the Mogul is fine but it did need some CV adjusting......and sadly I fried the 57xx Can you give more details of the problems with Lenz Silver Minis in Split Chassis? Many thanks Regards from a very sunny Vancouver Hi John, my personal experiences - one very jerky runner even after extensive running in and another that just went pop. I find that TCS-M1s generally just drop in and go. Sometimes you need a good running in session and you always have the fallback option of disabling the BEMF and using the dither, which with some fine tuning really gives smooth running, but then the loco will slow down uphill etc ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 A great chip that is quite often overlooked is the ESU Lokpilot, overlooked due to its succesful sound chip cousin the Loksound. These can be picked up for a reasonable price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 A great chip that is quite often overlooked is the ESU Lokpilot, overlooked due to its succesful sound chip cousin the Loksound. These can be picked up for a reasonable price. There are two LokPilot decoders. The LokPilot Basic is the same decoder as the Bachmann 36-553/554. The more expensive LokPilot V3 is a different decoder, which I believe has the same motor control as the LokSound series. It comes in various versions for use on DCC, M?¤rklin?®-Motorola?® and Selectrix?® systems (choose the correct model carefully). It also has RailCom capability, which isn't on the current version of the LokSound decoder (I understand it's likely to be added on the next version). . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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