Jump to content
 

First all blue BR diesels


NeilMac

Recommended Posts

May 1980, 47 170 County of Norfolk

 

Sorry chap, thats quite wrong - it was 56 036 in July 1978, see http://www.rmweb.co....t=35120&start=0

 

 

So the number of complete years during which every locomotive in service on BR was painted standard Rail Blue would seem to be zero!

 

Geoff Endacott

 

Indeed Geoff, there was Never a time on BR when every loco was painted standard rail blue (it just seemed like it!). I certainly remember seeing green diesels (at least 40 106 & 40 122) even into the very early eighties by which time the Large Logo 47's, 50's and 56's were rolling out all over the place.

So, by the time BR finally got rid of or repainted all the Green locos into rail blue, they were also very busy with the large logos, soon to be followed by the Railfreight grey and the Inter-City Executive liveries and of course in 1985, we got even more variation due to GWR150!

For me after '85, it started to get silly as we went into the late eighties and i lost interest rather (i couldn't keep up!).

Cheers,

John.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are all of course quite right, there never was a period of solely B.R. plain blue. I grouped large logo in with plain blue as the body colour was the same but I must admit that the grey roof and yellow cabs (amongst other things) really does class it as a separate livery.

 

I'd completely forgotten about 40106 and she wasn't withdrawn until after the 58s started to come out. So even if you count large logo as part of rail blue it still turns out that not all the fleet was painted blue at the same time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I seem to recall 40106 was THE green celebrity as it stayed in green longest and was then repainted green. 40122 (and 55002) were repainted green after wearing blue. All the 55s got blue early and being a small class.... To further narrow the OP, which was the first class to be all repainted into rail blue (the 50s being delivered in it)?

 

And surely the 74s don't count as they were rebuilt 71s?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It has to be one of those enthusiasts pub quiz answers for pedants though. If your modelling between 1974 & 1979 what wasn't rail blue was in the vast minority! Inside the ScR, it would've been rare to see anything that wasn't 'standard' rail blue throughout those years......those that existed were either in scrap lines or outwith the ScR were small in number and well known about. If any of us owned a fleet the size of BRs, I doubt we would have repainted our stock as quick as they did.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Indeed Geoff, there was Never a time on BR when every loco was painted standard rail blue (it just seemed like it!).

 

For me after '85, it started to get silly as we went into the late eighties and i lost interest rather (i couldn't keep up!).

 

You and me both, John!!!

 

This has turned into a fascinating thread... the Era considered to be the most boring of all turns out to have had a great deal of variety after all...!!!

Personally I would consider the Pre-TOPS '70s to be the 'pure' BR Blue Era, since all (most?) the DMUs & EMus were painted solid blue too. Later on in the '70s Units ("Bugs" as we called 'em) became Blue/Grey like coaching stock, and also there was the White/Blue Stripe PTE livery...

Link to post
Share on other sites

For modelling purposes one could standardise on all stock being in rail blue from 1973/4 ish to about 1982 without it looking wrong. It is not a rule that "the unusual will be modelled". Trouble is in that time period all locomotives were renumbered, followed by the loss of headcodes being displayed, and the various other alterations to locos and stock that will date them.

For a layout to look good in my mind is for there needs to be a strict rule regarding the running of stock of the same time period. This does not mean that all blue layout is not possible, if like me you think all locos and coaches should be contemporary with each other, then be careful that you do not double head your pre TOPS numbered loco with one displaying dominoes not a headcode.

 

You need them with TOPS codes then 0000 (or frequently other unofficial codes - Westerns usually carried the loco number, some of the 47's carried their number in the class (in fact 47 365 was running in Green with a 3.65 headcode for a while post TOPS ending !), then domino then plated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Strictly speaking you could say that a "pure" BR Blue Era never existed. Certainly some Class 20s were still green in 1979 and that was the year that APT-P started trials on the West Coast Main Line wearing what became Inter City Executive Livery.

 

Probably the nearest period to all locos wearing B.R. blue is from late 1979 when the last Class 20s were repainted to late 1982 when the first 58 emerged in Railfreight grey. That's only three years.:icon_wow:

 

And two of those years included a TOPS listed loco still in black until 1981 (01 002)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to that last post, 01 002 still bore the earlier BR crest until the end. 01 001 may well have done also but was officially withdrawn and was being used as a "Christmas tree" to keep 01 002 going. (Both locos were based on the physically isolated Holyhead breakwater line).

Link to post
Share on other sites

You and me both, John!!!

 

This has turned into a fascinating thread... the Era considered to be the most boring of all turns out to have had a great deal of variety after all...!!!

Personally I would consider the Pre-TOPS '70s to be the 'pure' BR Blue Era, since all (most?) the DMUs & EMus were painted solid blue too. Later on in the '70s Units ("Bugs" as we called 'em) became Blue/Grey like coaching stock, and also there was the White/Blue Stripe PTE livery...

 

well that makes 3 of us I think it got confusing and too colourfull for me I think it came to a head when the sector pools came in WNXX,ICXX,INXX,THIX,TRAX,CRAP,DROS,CRUD and the imortal saying you cant use our shiney intercity liveried class 47 on your smelly old oil tanks.

 

it really made my day when our 87 broke down on the foot of Rugby's flyover with a smart intercity liveried train what did we get to rescue us the most delapidated class 31's you have ever seen,one ran out of fuel at Kilsby tunnel not 5 miles into the journey leaving 1 locomotive to pull 1 dead electric, 1 dead diesel a DVT and 9 coaches mega thrash.

 

sorry if I have gone off topic.

 

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

You need them with TOPS codes then 0000 (or frequently other unofficial codes - Westerns usually carried the loco number, some of the 47's carried their number in the class (in fact 47 365 was running in Green with a 3.65 headcode for a while post TOPS ending !), then domino then plated.

 

This was carried over to class 50s too, quite a few of them carried their number minus a zero during their early days on the WR.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

First diesel class to be REPAINTED blue in its entirety was the deltics by November 1969. The 45s were all done by January 1970.

 

Not that many classes had every member in rail blue due to accidents etc.

 

For example, scrapped green were

 

20014, 24090/2, 24136, 5278 and 7605, 5383, , 6502/76, 1562, 1671, 1734, 1908, D322, 40039, D6983, no less than 13 hymeks, D800 (and several others in maroon).

 

The only classes of which every single member appeared in rail blue are 07, 09, 26, 31, 44, 45, 46, 50, 52, 53 and 55

 

 

As has been said there was no point at which the whole BR fleet was rail blue. Large logo came in with 56036 (and yes it did run in normal rail blue, I have at least one photo) in July 1978 at which point there were the two black 01s, green 03382, about six dozen green 08s, a bout a dozen 20s, 40106 and 47256 in green.

 

Closest we came to totality was probably June 1980 when the last green 08, 934 went blue and bar 40106 and the class 15 CHUs there were no other green locos in service and just 56036 in large logo as far as I am aware. I stand to be corrected on large logo locos at the time as Im unsure when 50s started to appear, outside my area really!

 

At that time all DMUs and EMUs and all coaching stock was in rail blue or refurbished white, none remained in the old green/maroon unless we include some dumped 504s at croxley green and the derby maroon set.

 

NOT including that, does anyone know what the very last mark 1 coach to run in maroon was? I know the last few but not the very last.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A nice round up there Russell wink.gif

 

First 50 into large logo livery was 50 023, it came out of Doncaster around the 10th August 1980... which, going by your post, means the 'totality' of BR Blue coverage lasted less than two months!

 

[ I don't know if you're aware Russell but there's an interesting tale concerning 56 036's large logo repaint in Anthony Gregory's book 'Life On The Leicester Line' ]

 

Cheers, Nidge wink.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Max Stafford

As far as I know, the first large logo schemes appeared about Jan 1980, in connection with the 'Rocket 150' commemorations.With the last 20s repainted to blue about April or May,it appears that green and ll may just, just overlap.

 

Dave.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I know, the first large logo schemes appeared about Jan 1980, in connection with the 'Rocket 150' commemorations.With the last 20s repainted to blue about April or May,it appears that green and ll may just, just overlap.

 

Dave.

Hmmm, you know what, I think the man's right: 86215 wasn't it: "Sans Pareil" being named for the occasion?

 

I see posts totals have made a comeback, next time out, I'm at 666 !!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it even shorter than that? When did large logo blue first appear?

 

Geoff Endacott

 

You are forgetting 40106 remained in green throughout its career until withdrawal in 1983, by which time the large logo was well and truly becoming standardised only to followed by various shades of grey.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the number of complete years during which every locomotive in service on BR was painted standard Rail Blue would seem to be zero!

 

Geoff Endacott

 

The class 28 survivor was still lurking around in BR green (not bought for preservation until the 1980s) as were some class 15s as train heat units. Do they count to spoil things further?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Still think it's a bit of an exaggeration - take a typical year of the period I mentioned (1974-78) say 1976 and give the numbers of those locomotives that were not in standard rail blue - out of the entire fleet.....

 

 

Actually you'd be surprised. I've dug out my ICRS newsletters which meticulously recorded the green to blue conversion.

In April 1976 they published what was thought to be a list of locos still in Green

Class 01 - 2 (actually black)

Class 03 - 3

Class 08 - 83(!)

Class 13 - 1

Class 20 - 46

Class 24 - 3

Class 25 - 3

Class 37 - 6

Class 40 - 7

Class 47 - 18

 

PWM shunters -2

 

Admittedly they were becoming rarer but in 1974/5 they were by no means uncommon especially 47s and 20s.

If anyone wants the list of locos involved I'd be happy to post- (it'll take a bit of typing though!)

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Sorry chap, thats quite wrong - it was 56 036 in July 1978, see http://www.rmweb.co....t=35120&start=0

 

 

 

 

Indeed Geoff, there was Never a time on BR when every loco was painted standard rail blue (it just seemed like it!). I certainly remember seeing green diesels (at least 40 106 & 40 122) even into the very early eighties by which time the Large Logo 47's, 50's and 56's were rolling out all over the place.

So, by the time BR finally got rid of or repainted all the Green locos into rail blue, they were also very busy with the large logos, soon to be followed by the Railfreight grey and the Inter-City Executive liveries and of course in 1985, we got even more variation due to GWR150!

For me after '85, it started to get silly as we went into the late eighties and i lost interest rather (i couldn't keep up!).

Cheers,

John.

 

Although I'm switching pedant mode on the first real variation to (end?) BR blue were the Stratford duffs with silver roofs and adorned with union jacks for the 1977 Silver jubilee- 47 163/4 and for a short while allegedly 47 162.

http://www.brushtype4.co.uk/bt4_liveries.php?s_liv=99

 

It caused quite a stir at the time. However its quite right that 56 036 was first in large logo- remember quite a shock seeing her with large numbers at Coalville in Sept 1978.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually you'd be surprised. I've dug out my ICRS newsletters which meticulously recorded the green to blue conversion.

 

 

...

 

If anyone wants the list of locos involved I'd be happy to post- (it'll take a bit of typing though!)

 

 

 

Save your fingers Neil, you'd be very hard put to improve on Russell Saxton's master list, here

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Save your fingers Neil, you'd be very hard put to improve on Russell Saxton's master list, here

 

 

Indeed it would be pointless repeating Russell's hard work Ian - however the ICRS records are useful for a particular year - April 1976 had a major update.

Russell's records are lists of locos that made it to TOPS in Green (i.e. 1974). I was surprised that almost a quarter of the 20 fleet were still in green in 1976 and a tenth of the 08 fleet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Indeed it would be pointless repeating Russell's hard work Ian - however the ICRS records are useful for a particular year - April 1976 had a major update.

Russell's records are lists of locos that made it to TOPS in Green (i.e. 1974). I was surprised that almost a quarter of the 20 fleet were still in green in 1976 and a tenth of the 08 fleet.

 

Actually i would be very interested to see the ICRS stuff Ian. Any chance you can post it up? If not is it possible to send it off list?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...