Helmdon Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) ... Edited October 5, 2021 by Helmdon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmdon Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) ... Edited October 5, 2021 by Helmdon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, Downer said: which is which? The clue is the green painted cylinders as per Hornby advertising literature. Ray 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2021 Thanks for posting the images. I am happy that I have an example from the first issue. If that is a production sample it is unacceptable in terms of livery at any price. I shall not be making a purchase. Why is this happening time after time ? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said: The clue is the green painted cylinders as per Hornby advertising literature. Ray Thought so, but wanted to be sure. I hope - probably in vain - that 72004 will be a more accurate colour. If not…. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Downer said: Thought so, but wanted to be sure. I hope - probably in vain - that 72004 will be a more accurate colour. If not…. If 72004 is R3995 then the colours and footplate are identical with R3996. I haven't a picture because it is on its way back to the retailer because his packaging had lost out to Royal Mail. Cheers Ray 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said: If 72004 is R3995 then the colours and footplate are identical with R3996. I haven't a picture because it is on its way back to the retailer because his packaging had lost out to Royal Mail. Cheers Ray Thanks. A complete re-paint needed, which would of course involve re-lining. Has anyone at Hornby ever looked at a photograph of the real thing? It doesn’t seem likely. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmdon Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said: If 72004 is R3995 then the colours and footplate are identical with R3996. I haven't a picture because it is on its way back to the retailer because his packaging had lost out to Royal Mail. Cheers Ray FFS 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, Downer said: Thanks. A complete re-paint needed, which would of course involve re-lining. Has anyone at Hornby ever looked at a photograph of the real thing? It doesn’t seem likely. There are on Heritage Lines all over the UK steaming examples of BR green. There appears to be an ongoing disconnect between these,Hornby and Heljan ( 47XX) and the end provider in China. Drawing attention to it is akin to batting one’s head against a stone wall. Bachmann do it pretty well…as do others….. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said: Something to colour your thoughts! Reminds me of a 'Night Owl'. Hornby R3996 next to one that I made earlier. Sorry - just on the shade of green and the green running board surfaces, the entire production should have been rejected by Hornby! Unless Hornby get on top of the BR green issue, their market for such models will shrink to those of us who can and will repaint / reline our purchases. cJI. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said: Thanks for posting the images. I am happy that I have an example from the first issue. If that is a production sample it is unacceptable in terms of livery at any price. I shall not be making a purchase. Why is this happening time after time ? Somewhat disappointing to say the least on a model that we've had to wait literally ages to reappear into their range. Hornby have yet again ruined an otherwise fantastic loco with another poor rendition/interpretation of "Brunswick Green". This will only change and strike home in Margate, when potential purchasers vote with their wallets. Edited October 5, 2021 by Black 5 Bear 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 I presume the dodgy one is the Yellow lining version and Green Cylinders ? Strange because the ones for sale on ebay have two shades of Orange on Tender and Cab areas in a darker shade which looks correct ish, and a Bright Orange lining on the Footplate and Black cylinders. A milky shade of Green again as well. Hornby have a picture with Green Cylinders and two shades of Orange lining !! How can Hornby can have the nerve to try and sell them like this ? Most bizarre !! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, micklner said: I presume the dodgy one is the Yellow lining version and Green Cylinders ? Strange because the ones for sale on ebay have two shades of Orange on Tender and Cab areas in a darker shade which looks correct ish, and a Bright Orange lining on the Footplate and Black cylinders. A milky shade of Green again as well. Hornby have a picture with Green Cylinders and two shades of Orange lining !! How can Hornby can have the nerve to try and sell them like this ? Most bizarre !! Yes - but are the photos on Ebay the actual models that are on offer - or just photos of the last production batch harvested off the internet? CJI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2021 I didnt realise some Clans had green cylinders until it appeared in Hornby catalogue, but someone was able to confirm it was correct and since then I've acquired an excellent book "The last years of Carlisle Steam" . This shows Clan Stewart with green cylinders and to be honest seems a pretty bright green not unlike the Hornby one . Unfortunately you cant see if the running boards are green . What glares in the pic posted by Siler Sidelines (still love your blue poppy ballast , by the way) is the lining , which looks yellow . Indeed the loco looks like something they used to provide as a cheap trainset for Littlewoods in the 1970s . Looks like Hornby snatching defeat from the jaws of victory again . 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 There is a photo of Clan Stewart at Carlisle Kingmoor in late 1962, in pristine condition having recently had a major overhaul at Cowlairs, with green lined cylinders, which it is said, were applied at that time. If Hornby have done their research to get that accurate, as it seems to be unique, it's likely the running boards are correct. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2021 Maybe Hornby have used the same factory and there has been ‘some confusion’ 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Legend said: Looks like Hornby snatching defeat from the jaws of victory again . I just can't get over this cariacature! The Clan has - for whatever reason - been absent from Hornby's range for what seems like eons, creating what is undoubtedly a pent-up market; (members may recall that I was ridiculed in the Ebay Madness thread for paying 'silly money' for a Clan some time ago). Eventually, we are promised its return, and potential buyers have been bemoaning the delays in its delivery for ages. Finally, it appears on dealers shelves - as something that would not be out of place in the 'cheap tat' section of the Aliexpress toy section! What is it with Hornby - have they no control whatsoever over what comes out of China? Would it be too expensive to send out a product manager to China to inspect the finished product BEFORE it is shipped? ( .... and this question could be directed to many of the other producers, too)? This sort of junk comes out of China because far to many commissioners shrug their shoulders when specifications are ignored and accept sub-standard product. I know that China has a virtual monopoly on this kind of manufacturing, but surely the sanction of moving one's business elsewhere within China still remains? Despairingly, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, cctransuk said: (members may recall that I was ridiculed in the Ebay Madness thread for paying 'silly money' for a Clan some time ago). I do remember John - well done. It is a long time since I weathered a model but sometimes needs must. I wonder if you kept up with my Blog Posts? There were three Posts this summer about converting 'Britannieas and Clans' into models not produced by Hornby. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/25047-no-166-a-tale-of-two-Hornby-super-detail-‘britannias’-plus-a-clan-postscript/ Cheers Ray Edited October 5, 2021 by Silver Sidelines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2021 I have this on order at my local model shop, and am worried that refusing to accept this apparent travesty will be problematic for the retailer in question. Can anyone say how this works? Will he be able to return it to Hornby without incurring any penalty? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, Downer said: I have this on order at my local model shop, and am worried that refusing to accept this apparent travesty will be problematic for the retailer in question. Can anyone say how this works? Will he be able to return it to Hornby without incurring any penalty? I'm reliably informed that authorised dealers get a credit for returned items. These are then apparently returned to Hornby via courier. I can only see a model shop losing out financially if the item was posted out to you. As you describe it as local you're probably going to collect it from them. Better that than being stuck with something that isn't up to the mark and grates the eyes ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacol Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Just had a look at Clan MacDonald which arrived today and the colour green is pretty much the same as the A2/2 but the lining is a bit brighter. The cylinders are black and the running plate top is green. It is a very smooth runner. A couple of items were loose/fallen off. Top smokebox lamp iron. one of the steps under the smokebox and one sandpipe. The lubricators were both loose, hanging down. Carefully refitted them as I refitted the chassis to the body. Despite these issues I still like the model and I think it is better than the A2/2's. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Wacol said: Just had a look at Clan MacDonald which arrived today and the colour green is pretty much the same as the A2/2 but the lining is a bit brighter. The cylinders are black and the running plate top is green. It is a very smooth runner. A couple of items were loose/fallen off. Top smokebox lamp iron. one of the steps under the smokebox and one sandpipe. The lubricators were both loose, hanging down. Carefully refitted them as I refitted the chassis to the body. Despite these issues I still like the model and I think it is better than the A2/2's. I seem to remember that that the whistle is prone to damage on the Clans, and Britannias for that matter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, cctransuk said: What is it with Hornby - have they no control whatsoever over what comes out of China? Would it be too expensive to send out a product manager to China to inspect the finished product BEFORE it is shipped? ( .... and this question could be directed to many of the other producers, too)? John, I wonder if Covid prevented this? Although that doesn't mitigate it, other manufacturers have decorated samples shipped here for inspection and approval before production starts. This is such a shame for Hornby. I suspect many will just be happy with opportunity to buy one at a "realistic" price? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Well, just had news that mine has been dispatched. A little concerned about the livery, but I will reserve judgement until I see it in the flesh so to speak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted October 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2021 57 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said: I'm reliably informed that authorised dealers get a credit for returned items. These are then apparently returned to Hornby via courier. I can only see a model shop losing out financially if the item was posted out to you. As you describe it as local you're probably going to collect it from them. Better that than being stuck with something that isn't up to the mark and grates the eyes ! Thanks for that. I may well keep and weather it, but that’s nice to know. I’ve ordered Clan MacDonald to covert it into the Clan Stewart which spent a month in East Anglia in 1958 - keeping the black cylinders and early crest while changing the numbers and fixing a black-backed nameplate. All the pictures I’ve seen of that visit have the loco in filthy condition, so maybe some heavy weathering can cover up the hideous shade of green and overdone orange lining. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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