RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2018 Ian, I take exception to that comment - for obvious reasons. The loco in question has just arrived, and is indeed in factory-fresh condition with just a couple of minor creases on the box end. I am not a collector, but I do want a Clan to run. I could build a kit, but my 'To do' pile already exceeds my life expectancy and the Hornby model looks good to my eyes. I have been watching, and occasionally bidding on Clans for a very long time, and came to the conclusion that if I was to get one I might as well bite the bullet and bid whatever was necessary on an unused one. If you really want something and can, at a pinch, afford the price, I see no reason to be branded a fool. Clearly, someone else was of the same opinion but was not prepared to spend quite as much as I was. There are many people who think nothing of paying what I regard as silly money having a kit built, and even more silly money on having it painted, and even more on having it weathered; presumably they are all fools? I pay the market price - ie. a tad more than someone else is prepared to pay - and then do my own detailing and painting. Yes - this foolishly priced model will have all the green bits resprayed and relined / lettered as 72006 with my own transfers - which are finer than Hornby's rendition. What value we place on acquiring our desired model is our own business - and we should not be subjected to ridicule for setting our personal priorities. Regards, John Isherwood. Take what you wish...I don't live in a parallel universe..and this strikes me as dual standards,when complaints are continually voiced about the ever rising cost of modelling we get this..in an age when costs of living in real terms mean that average households are struggling to make ends meet.What mystifies me is why you choose to take on the mantle of champion of such events.Well..good luck with that...exceptions inclusive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) Take what you wish...I don't live in a parallel universe..and this strikes me as dual standards,when complaints are continually voiced about the ever rising cost of modelling we get this..in an age when costs of living in real terms mean that average households are struggling to make ends meet.What mystifies me is why you choose to take on the mantle of champion of such events.Well..good luck with that...exceptions inclusive. Ian, That is the most opaque twaddle I have ever read !! Why would you suggest that I live in a parallel universe? When have you read a complaint from me about the rising costs of modelling? My wife and I struggled for decades to bring up two fine children on below-average wages, but we both paid into good pension schemes at a time when this was difficult, and are now reasonably comfortable - but by no means affluent. I am not sure which events you accuse me of taking on the mantle of champion - perhaps you could elucidate? What is your problem? I have politely explained why I chose to spend a moderate portion of my disposable income, though there is no obligation on me to do so; I didn't expect or deserve further abuse! Regards, John Isherwood. Edited April 7, 2018 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Hi Ian It was just a passing thought. Wonder what makes you propose that ?. There are other threads about about Hornby finances. Hornby have in the past spent a lot of time and effort (money) designing some good models. However I would say a lot of these models (the Clan included) are not for the mass market and are more suited to short runs as offered by the smaller companies such as Oxford Rail, DJModels and Dapol. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Ian, I take exception to that comment - for obvious reasons. If it had been anyone else, you might have branded them a fool. ...If you really want something and can, at a pinch, afford the price, I see no reason to be branded a fool. Clearly, someone else was of the same opinion but was not prepared to spend quite as much as I was..... ...or possibly was just shilling you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Ian, That is the most opaque twaddle I have ever read !! Why would you suggest that I live in a parallel universe? When have you read a complaint from me about the rising costs of modelling? My wife and I struggled for decades to bring up two fine children on below-average wages, but we both paid into good pension schemes at a time when this was difficult, and are now reasonably comfortable - but by no means affluent. I am not sure which events you accuse me of taking on the mantle of champion - perhaps you could elucidate? What is your problem? I have politely explained why I chose to spend a moderate portion of my disposable income, though there is no obligation on me to do so; I didn't expect or deserve further abuse! Regards, John Isherwood. Actually John I fully empathise with you, and agree with you, I had resolved to bid up to about £180 on this model which sounds as if it was as described and thus would be at the very top end of RTR quality, as well as being exceedingly rare in new un-meddled condition. I was put off by the £38 postage addition and other things which I choose to spend-on. I have recently paid £170-205 for two Clans and neither was in perfect condition, but they are a joy to behold and photograph and should I wish to sell the the financial loss might not be high. When I see the prices of 0 gauge models and think about the total spent on 00 models by me and many others, the prices for top quality as in your purchase are not unusual. I used to restore Jaguar cars and know people who spend a great deal more than me on a hobby, all power to you in deriving pleasure from what I consider to be a very fine model of a very interesting class of BR steam loco. 72000 even more so being the only one of three numbers made by Hornby from the 'Glasgow 5' withdrawn at the end of 1962. This was in fact a well-liked and competent class of engine with the right crew. best, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2018 Hi Ian It was just a passing thought. There are other threads about about Hornby finances. Hornby have in the past spent a lot of time and effort (money) designing some good models. However I would say a lot of these models (the Clan included) are not for the mass market and are more suited to short runs as offered by the smaller companies such as Oxford Rail, DJModels and Dapol. Ray From recent experience, it would seem that Hornby no longer regard themselves as especially "mass market" either. Production runs are clearly much smaller than they used to be. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 If it had been anyone else, you might have branded them a fool. ...or possibly was just shilling you. On what basis do you make that statement? Can you point to a single instance where I have called anyone a fool - or any similar derogatory description? NO - because I never have and never would. Read what I actually write, not what you put into my mouth. The bidding pattern clearly indicated that the seller was not shilling - he was the same seller that sold the other Clan for around half of what I paid. The bottom line is that two potential purchasers badly wanted that Clan - and were prepared to expend the necessary resources to get it; (one slightly more than the other). That is the way auctions work, and the seller was the beneficiary this time. It's apparently OK to boast here about the 'bargains' that have been acquired on Ebay, but if someone is prepared to say that, (on this occasion), they paid over the odds, certain (jealous?) members feel that they have the right to deride the purchaser. No-one has the right to tell me how to spend my money, and I would not presume to express an opinion on the rights of others to do so. Those who vociferously ridicule my actions only belittle themselves. .... and to further horrify you, I can advise that this afternoon I took a piercing saw, Dremel and milling cutters to the Clan, and cut / milled chunks out of the chassis in order to produce a prototypical swivelling trailing truck - shock, horror !! Regards, John Isherwood. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) " .... and to further horrify you, I can advise that this afternoon I took a piercing saw, Dremel and milling cutters to the Clan, and cut / milled chunks out of the chassis in order to produce a prototypical swivelling trailing truck - shock, horror !! Regards, John Isherwood. " Did exactly the same to mine - makes a great improvement on looks and running. Enjoy your purchase! Edited April 7, 2018 by Ben Alder 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) Thanks John Yes I had noticed the recent smaller production runs of shall I say 'high end' models. ... it would seem that Hornby no longer regard themselves as especially "mass market" either. Production runs are clearly much smaller than they used to be. My logic says that smaller production runs will need to be matched by a reduction in overheads and I was envisaging a situation where production and marketing of the 'high end' models was separated from the mass market.business. You could say that the necesary arrangements (with Oxford Rail) are already in place. Ray PS I am digressing and had better stop here - the thread is already in danger of morphing into the 'Good Buy from EBay' topic. Edited April 7, 2018 by Silver Sidelines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big James Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I did the same with a Hornby padstow. It was in mint condition and I’ve wanted one for years I had to pay a little bit more then I wanted to but sometimes it’s better to leap before you look. I want to clans to rename into hengist and horsa but they are quite a way down my purchasing list. Big james Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) Meanwhile on ebay.. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R2925X-BR-Clan-Class-Locomotive-Clan-Macgregor-72005/282910565093?hash=item41dec8a2e5:g:MaYAAOSwkMdaw5er I’m going to declare my hand here.. I’ve got 2 clans from 3 produced... the one above is the only one I haven’t got. As a fool, the most I’ve paid for 1 rtr non-brass loco was £500 (Roco 310). As a thrift the least I’ve paid for 1 rtr non-toy loco was £10 (Mainline class 42). I still have both and they still put smiles to my face. To add power to my handle I’ve £80+ of nectar card points vouchers to discount off my final bill as a starting point. Given I’ve beaten up a £150 47xx this weekend i’m not afraid to spend. (Though as a northerner i’m Too tight to part with it and it will look good as new very soon). I was given some gen on a Clan being dropped from the 2018 range at Warley by “someone who definitely knows”, in the presence of another rmwebber here, but knowing it’s all good for a future come back, means in all reality that’s probably tail end of 2019 at the earliest, and in all likelyhood another number.. who knows maybe 72006 with a yellow stripe, wouldn’t that be nice - for all except those wanting to renumber!), but even the awkward one will sell after a near decade hiatus. It’s a hobby, you live once, if all your family responsibilities are covered then why not. Don’t forget if it doesn’t work out... you can always put it back on ebay, similarly if personal circumstances change a model loco will give less devaluation than a nice TV or a second hand car ever will. The alternative is a taxi to London, food, drinks, bar and taxi home.. for pretty much the same change but nothing to show for it... So to cctrans.. best of luck to you, with your purchase, if it makes you happy then it’s worth it, don’t forget to show us the pictures to inspire those less as able to achieve excellent paint jobs when you’ve finished it ! - i’ll Be happy with this one if I just get it to the point of having the weathering off the front beam as suggested, and have a spare “as new” tender waiting for it should I win... my plan for it if it doesn’t clean up...who knows I might even consider it as a planned BR std 2-8-2 or even a BR std 2-8-0 :-) .. I’ve had the “2-8” chassis and some extra valve gear waiting to do such a fictional model for quite some time. Edited April 7, 2018 by adb968008 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the support, all - it's nice to know that not all RMweb members are jealous name-callers. It's very easy for certain members to post their sarcasm when they think that they don't know the person in question; but I don't think that they like it when they are 'called-out'! Regards, John Isherwood. Edited April 8, 2018 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the support, all - it's nice to know that not all RMweb members are jealous name-callers. It's very easy for certain members to post their sarcasm when they think that they don't know the person in question; but I don't think that they like it when they are 'called-out'! Regards, John Isherwood. Morning John I’ve just purchased a Hornby K1 and B1. First job I’ve done is carve off the cast Nem pocket, and hack around the coal separation piece for an early 1950s locomotive (K1). Both are having Gibson bogie wheels, and on the B1 I’ve already carved off the chimney ready to add a Dave Bradwell casting. The B1 I paid around £30-£40 more than the price it cost 5 years ago.....does it matter? No, because essentially we are modellers....the basic model is just the starting point like a kit would be. Best Wishes Tom Edited April 8, 2018 by 9793 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) To the outside world, most people would think anyone spending more than a tenner on a model train must be mad. Some people collect real name plates at £50k+ a pop ! For something of a scrap metal value of probably less than a model train. It’s all relative, value is down to perception, as long as you get what you want from it it’s giving value. Edited April 8, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffed 1 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Impressed that someone would pay so much for a member of a tiny loco class, but each to their own. I only ever saw one Clan, 72006 in (I think) 1964 when it had gone to Tyseley for wheel-turning. My brother had seen it from his school and dragged me over to see it in the early evening. I wasn't impressed,(I'd missed my tea), I remember thinking it was a Brit with a small chimney. Bizarrely, the local back to town was hauled by a Jubilee - must have been a running-in turn, also after wheel-turning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) Impressed that someone would pay so much for a member of a tiny loco class, but each to their own. I only ever saw one Clan, 72006 in (I think) 1964 when it had gone to Tyseley for wheel-turning. My brother had seen it from his school and dragged me over to see it in the early evening. I wasn't impressed,(I'd missed my tea), I remember thinking it was a Brit with a small chimney. Bizarrely, the local back to town was hauled by a Jubilee - must have been a running-in turn, also after wheel-turning. My model is now repainted and relined / numbered as 72006; just the final details to add, and then I'll post a photo. As I model the S&DJR in 1961, there is no justification whatsoever for a Clan - except that there are strong indications that some of the unbuilt second batch of Clans could have been allocated for traffic on the S&DJR. My story will be that 72006 has been sent down from Carlisle to undertake trials, prior to the (fictional) build of the second batch. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited April 16, 2018 by cctransuk 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 A Britannia did get as far as Bath Green Park once. Bearing in mind the limited impact of the WC/BB classes on the S&DJR I’d be surprised if the Clans would have been a success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 A Britannia did get as far as Bath Green Park once. Bearing in mind the limited impact of the WC/BB classes on the S&DJR I’d be surprised if the Clans would have been a success. I've got a photo of the Brit at BGP somewhere. I have to agree re the Clans - perhaps that's why, after testing 72006, they didn't build the second batch !?! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2018 If Clans had got to the S&D they would probably have been double headed on longer trains :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 If Clans had got to the S&D they would probably have been double headed on longer trains :-) .... as was virtually everything else - except the 9Fs, when they had proved that they didn't need help. Regards, John isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 My model is now repainted and relined / numbered as 72006; just the final details to add, and then I'll post a photo. As I model the S&DJR in 1961, there is no justification whatsoever for a Clan - except that there are strong indications that some of the unbuilt second batch of Clans could have been allocated for traffic on the S&DJR. My story will be that 72006 has been sent down from Carlisle to undertake trials, prior to the (fictional) build of the second batch. Regards, John Isherwood. No different to 72009 at 30A Stratford then? (Though they soon got shot of it!) Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 another for sale, 72005 looks tidy https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R2925-BR-4-6-2-CLAN-CLASS-6MT-LOCOMOTIVE-CLAN-MACGREGOR-72005/152982702626?epid=1864381076&hash=item239e7aca22:g:5RoAAOSwP25a0T9g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Having seen this thread, I'm tempted to sell mine. Not long after I got it, I managed to get a very nice Escap powered DJH one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted April 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2018 another for sale, 72005 looks tidy https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R2925-BR-4-6-2-CLAN-CLASS-6MT-LOCOMOTIVE-CLAN-MACGREGOR-72005/152982702626?epid=1864381076&hash=item239e7aca22:g:5RoAAOSwP25a0T9g Having seen this thread, I'm tempted to sell mine. Not long after I got it, I managed to get a very nice Escap powered DJH one. I think this thread may well be creating the market and driving the prices Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) I think this thread may well be creating the market and driving the prices Not really. It may be a combination of the threads on all the forums but not just one thread on one forum with just a few members taking part. Edited April 19, 2018 by Kim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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