Hatfield : Part the Second

[Kallaroonian]

I have various photos to post but once again I am running out of time this evening.

 

Just to set you expectations I suppose the two key topics are that a) the down track has been laid from the tunnel to more or less the station entrance and B) many challenges have arisen that have delayed progress.

 

With regard to a) this work involved getting the gradient correct over an 8m length and this was quite time-consuming

 

With regard to B) I have found that the styrofoam boards need a little extra rigidity in the station area and this has necessitated rebating an aluminium spar into their undersides. I have also found that building the bridge from one support area to another has been very time consuming indeed.

 

On the plus side the use of the styrofoam boards with the closed cell foam trackbed is proving to be very easy to work with.

 

I will post the photos in the next couple of days

 

rgds

[Kallaroonian]

Here are some photos then. I should lower your expectations before reading on because although I've made progress there really isn't that much to see.

 

Apart from the general issue of finding time to keep things moving along there have also been some specific issues : constructing the incline, difficulties building a bridging section between two support types, a need to reinforce the styrofoam and a decision to sort of seal the styrofoam with undercoat have all slowed things down to varying degrees.

 

Support struts

 

Point motor cut-out - it is so easy to mark-up point locations and cut holes or pass cable through the styrofoam. For dropper cables I'm simply using a meat skewer that can easily been driven through the foam

 

This shot shows all of the construction methods/issues at work. The gradient portion of the line is built out of composite baseboards made from styrofoam encased in thinnish plywood. These boards are very rigid and very light. The station portion of the line needed a levelling mechanism and this is built into the main spars that are then located via glued support stays and the whole lot mounted on top of some IKEA shelving units. The biggest difficulty to date has been building the bridge - both literal and cosmetic - between the two sections. The station section is comprised of sheets of styrofoam laid on the primary spars and overlapping by virtue of the T&G built into the styrofoam sheets

 

Start of the bridge section. The bridge is made from aluminium spars that location in slots on either side of the abyss. 3mm aluminium sheets is then used to form a deck and the whole lot is finished off with the closed cell foam I am using for underlay and the cosmetic Peco bridge girder sides

 

Bridge Deck

 

A low shot taken from where the track will emerge from the tunnel before climbing and circling back to the station at the higher level. The two down tracks are laid but I have run out of track and the up lines are pending a further track order. White Knight A3 and Airfix Brush 2 on the tracks for test purposes. Pleased to report that 8 carriage trains get up the incline OK.There is some super elevation on these tracks.

 

A shot of part of the incline

 

A view of the southern station throat roughly laid out with XtrkCAD 1:1 sheets

 

The finished bridge

 

The finished bridge in situ

 

The most recent shot showing the current overall status - two boards have underlay at the southern end of the station and two further boards have been positioned in the foreground so that now about 2/3 of the station is cut and ready for further work.

 

The next steps include :

- order further track and lay remaining lines on the inclined section

- install main power cable and connect dropper cables on the inclined section

- cut remaining station sections

- add reinforcing spars to further station sections, secure main support spars

- start to lay the station track

- possibly get the DCC unit and hook-up the points on the incline to test

 

 

 

Rgds

[McC]

Really starting to come together - you can get a feel for the finished item

 

Love the bridge work - looks great!

[davidw]

That's a manificent space you've got. How big is it?

[davidw]

There has been some progress with the initial baseboards – see here http://www.rmweb.co....__gopid__471183

 

I have also been running some gradient tests and it was a slightly sorry outcome. The tests were run with two of the boards providing a 3.7m running length and propped up to achieve different inclines. I then ran some traction tests using various available locos and a varying number of coaches.

 

Here's the little bloke with the old H&M Duette helping out :

 

 

The original layout plan called for a 15cm rise over about 8.5m which is a 1.8% gradient. I’ve now decided I need to revisit that because the results from the steam locos were fairly poor.

 

The following results show the number of carriages that the loco could pull up gradients of 1.8%, 1.5% and 1%. A small amount of wheel slip was allowable given that it depended how you drove the train but anything above minimal was considered a fail

 

30yr old Flying Scotsman : 5, 5, 6-

Bachmann 9F : 9-, X, X

Bachmann 08 : 6, 6, 8-

Hornby A3 White Knight : 6, 7-, 8-

Bachmann Cl20 : 9, X, X

Bachmann Deltic : 9+, X, X

Heljan Lion : 9+, X, X

Bachmann V2 : not tested, 6, 7-

30 yr old Airfix 31 : not tested, not tested, 9

 

 

A result like 7- indicates it just managed 7 coaches but the wheel slip was not really acceptable.

 

The goal was 8 coaches so the conclusion is that really the steam locos other than 9F can’t meet the goal. I thought White Knight was a distinct let-down.

 

So I am now expecting to design to a 1% gradient and make other arrangements regarding the reduced hand of God access for the storage areas

 

The other thing I will want to look at is weighting the steam locos. Has anyone tried this?

 

 

Just catching up with this have you thoght of trying bullfrog snot? www.bullfrogsnot.com

[Kallaroonian]

The actual results on the gradient as built have been ok so I think I should be able to run 8 coach trains without major trouble.

 

If you refer to the pdf track plans on pg 1 the max length is about 10m with the station about 8m long. The width of the visible area is a little under 3m but aroudn the storage tracks - if this ever gets buitl - it's about 7m.

[Kallaroonian]

Work continues rather slowly because I've been ill - a peculiar double vision episode thet they still can't diagnose followed by severe food poisoning last week, 2012 can only get better,

 

I'm hitting a few snags as well primarily with regard to my ability to reach all parts of the layout. I though I had this figured out but off the plan and in Real Life I find this is not the case.It looks like I may need to create a removable section or two and in any event it is going to change the order in which I complete work.

 

I realised that to be confident about the approach angle of the bridge I would have to lay out all of the planning sheets for the entire length of the station. It does give a very good sense of what the finished model will look and if the site would let me post the photo I'd put it up here. Unfortunately it won't....I'll try again separately in a moment

 

I have also hit a snag with an angled joist. Take a look at this photo :

 

 

There is a single track in the yard that will barely clear the joist as planned but a judicious move of the turntable (represented here in cardboard) would enable the track to squeeze by as shown. An alternative would be to have that line run the other side of the joist, however this is an area where I may need to make the boards more narrow and so there is a reasonable chance this option is a non starter.

 

I'd like to ask for some creative thinking. If the track did run around the back of the joist I would need to disguise the joist as a building - what plausible tallish building might sit within the tracks in the loco yard? An ash plant or huge colaer is out of keeping with the model so we can't go there.

 

Alternatively if the track squeezes by between joist and turntable what sort of building might be located hard up against the edge of the yard but with the option to be potentially outside the yard itself.

 

thanks

[Kallaroonian]

Well it keeps saying :

 

Error No file was selected for upload

 

It uploaded the other one above so ....??

[Kallaroonian]

Here's that view of the trackplan all laid out on the temporary basedboards

 

[LNERGE]

Wow. Looking good.

[Kallaroonian]

Greetings and Happy Easter to all.

 

Some progress has been made recently. I've laid the four tracks up from the tunnel area and got quite a long way through the process of completing the Southern station throat and bridge area :

 

 

 

I've also got myself an ESU DCC controller and am busy learning how to set all of that up. Arguably a bit premature but it's always good to be able to keep multiple work fronts open. I can now keep progressing either baseboard work, track laying, wiring or DCC set-up depending on my mood (or more likely an inconvenient reality preventing something else)

 

Rgds

[Kallaroonian]

Just a tiny bit of visible progress. I thought I would post a couple of pics

 

The first entrance track to the station fixed in place, along with the bay platform track. I'm using those track spacer tools which are really invaluable. I'm putting a lot of effort into getting the first track through an area as perfect as possible and then the spacers will align the others

 

Another photo to show how convenient it is using the closed cell foam an styrofoam as the track base. Need a hole through the board - a screwdriver will do it with a hand-push. Need to run some cables along - easy to cut a trench in the closed cell foam with a knife

 

I've sprayed part of the four track section ahead of rusty-railing the side and then ballasting. This look is quite motivating; for the first time I feel like I'm building a model railway

 

The other thing I have done is hook up the DCC controller and test a couple of locos.... which means that at least "some" wiring is done.

 

Generally a poor year so far primarily due to a family bereavement back in the UK. I should be able to get back to the project a bit more now. The next steps comprise multiple work fronts - more wiring, more track-laying in the station throat, more baseboard work and ballasting of the main line approaches

 

rgds

[Kallaroonian]

Greetings once again.

 

I have a few more progress photos to share. Not a tremendous amount of progress although this has a lot to do with "matters arising" as described below.

 

 

 

A view of the south station throat with the track laid and in position. One of the two matters arising that have slowed down progress is the fact I realised I can't reach the scenic area and backscene to the left side of this photo. I have been experimenting with making one of the boards removable but it's not really a realistic proposition. The only solution is to complete the platform, backscene and basic scenics in this area first which is not a job I had envisaged at this stage

 

 

The second and far more significant delay stems from the nature of the styrofoam baseboards. In the 4 track areas shown in previous posts the foam is encased in ply to form a rigid composite structure. However in the main station area this was not possible in the same way and I found that the boards were not quite rigid enough to bridge the support spans. Worse still three of the boards were slightly thicker than the rest. This picture is a worst case example of one of those boards showing the alu strut reinforcements (fitted to all of the station boards) and the 2mm routed areas required to ensure the thicker board tops all aligned

 

 

Future fiddle yard exit showing the curve leading to the 4 track running area and the reverse loop route

 

 

Pending wiring. What was that? DCC is easier to wire. Hmmmmmm

 

 

And I've been experimenting with track colouring and ballasting. The tracks are sprayed with Tamiya Nato brown to improve and provide some variance in the sleeper colour and the track sides are Rusty Rails dark brown. The ballast is a 1:1:1 blend of Woodlands Scenics grey blend medium, grey blend fine and dark brown fine. This will be further treated with a rusty oily brown wash to recreate that brown tinged look

 

rgds

[Kallaroonian]

A little update.

 

Progress has been slightly accelerated by me having more time due to getting laid off : - ( ....

 

..... but slowed down 1) by delaying buying necessary items for the same reason 2) by a family visit to us here downunder 3) primarily, numerous unexpected difficulties

 

I have now completed all of the station baseboards and mapped out the main line route across those boards. I viewed this as critical to getting the "right look" and once complete will enable me to use track spacing gadgets to more quickly lay the parallel lines. A major delay here was realising the styrofoam boards are not adequately self-supporting and I have therefore had to reinforce everything. I also found that one batch was not the same thickness as another and had to rout a groove in some boards ....!! a really excellent day that one .....

 

You can also see the laser level in one of the photos. I strongly recommend this if you have a large layout and are addressing any alignment issues be they board or track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've realised there is one part of the station that needs to be largely completed before progressing because elements of it will otherwise be out of my reach. This has been a significant delaying issue but the scenery, platform and backscene are now progressing (latter due to artistic abilities of my mum)

 

 

Part of the main lines are now ballasted (not the best photo)

 

 

I have hooked up one switchpilot to the ECoS. One of the problems was my using a prototype circuit for switching frog polarities. It uses DIL latching relays but of course being a prototype built on a veroboard meant that the scope for mis-wiring was huge and in the end very real.

 

 

I am thinking of getting the circults translated onto a small run of PCBs to improve matters for the future. Also wondering whether others would be interested if I obtained a larger batch run ??? I'm expecting it will be cheaper and arguably more flexible than a switchpilot extension.

 

Regards

[Kallaroonian]

There has been further progress. Just one photo :

 

 

Unfortunately I got laid off several months ago and finding a new role has been a problem. On the plus side this has given me more time to progress the layout but on the negative side it means I am reluctant to spend much money on it and since I am now running out of parts this means progress will slow considerably any time now.

 

You can see in the photo that the mainline through the station has been laid and the platforms mostly constructed. The sense of the station shape with it's unusual staggered platforms is now clear. The lines curve away to the right and return parallel to the station - this was the earlier work and is already ballasted.

 

Other work achieved :

 - there is a custom backscene painted by me good ol' mum when she was here visiting

 - baseboard fixings and facings are complete

 - wiring is progressing

 - some ballasting is complete, more is in progress

 - another bridge is in the process of being constructed

 - a small amount of scenery is complete behind the bay platform

 - one side of the approaching mainline has scenery formers and chicken wire in place ready for a plaster cloth coating process at some point

 - a design for a combined decoder the frog polarity control PCB has been developed by another RMWeb member following our discussions of same. My intent is to get some prototype boards made

 

There are some more things I can do but very soon I will need more track and a lot more control electronics and that will all have to wait until I have another job.

 

Anyway you can see how it's progressing. More details next time hopefully.

 

 

[Kallaroonian]

Of course literally cannot believe I last updated this in 2013. 

 

After getting laid off  had another job with a lot of uncertainty followed by a period with not much at all followed by a year and a half in Adelaide which I just quit for the new role I finally got in Perth again.

 

Yay.  But you can imagine I have either been avoiding spending any money at all or I haven't been here co-located with the layout in order to do anything with it anyway!

 

Whilst in Adelaide I have spent numerous evening building rolling stock kits so the time wasn't a total waste. Overall though progress very limited; something I hope to gradually resolve from now on.

 

[Kallaroonian]

There are some climate related dilemmas that folks might be able to provide some advice on.

 

One of the last things I did before the project got mostly parked was to stick some basic blue backscenes in place. Just something for a background that wasn't the loft or rafters. They all went on fine - flat, rollered into place and glued on using spray art glue. Basis of latter I can't recall but quite certain it was not water -based.

 

But some time has gone by and now we have peelage, rippling, bubbling etc. Basically totally useless. And removing what is there that hasn't let go by itself will be very difficult as well.

 

The loft space is subject to heat, air-flow (tiled roof, partly lined) and a degree of sea breeze - we are about 500m from the coast.

 

I'm thinking it has to all come off and be replace by some type of durable paint. Thoughts?

[Philou]

I don't know if it's of help, but in building Scalescene downloadable card buildings they recommend against using spray mount to attach the papers to the card sub-base. I have found that the spray mount, when I have used it, not particularly good. I expect there is spray mount and there is spray mount.

 

I note that your background is attached directly to a wood backing - I should expect that most standard glues would not hold unless the wood surface was prepared - a coat of emulsion would probably be OK. As you were thinking of using paint, I would do that. However, you will need to ensure that your roof space is really well insulated (and ventilated) as sea air is particularly aggressive. I don't know the weather patterns in Perth (though I understand it's THE city to live in in Australia), but damp will find its way in - especially in coastal areas.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

[richard.h]

I use ID backscenes, the self adhesive version which I've found to be very good even though we get some extreme temperatures here.

They do recommend that you don't stick them directly to unprimed wood so I use a cheap can of spray primer paint first and they are still on five years later.

 

Richard

[Kallaroonian]

It looks like the killer fail was to not prime the wood before attempting to glue.

 

A nightmare now because you can guarantee that some parts will have stuck fantastically and removing these and any glue remnants will be a nightmare.   /sigh

 

 

[Kallaroonian]

Gradually re-starting progress on the bit-more-off-than-you-can-chew layout

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Kallaroonian

[Kallaroonian]

For the benefit of others - it looks like removing the spray mount glued sheets is relatively easy if the backscene is rubbed over with white spirit; after a few moment of that soaking in the backscene sheet peels off ok

[Kallaroonian]

I seem to have a little more time on my hands than usual.

 

So many workfronts open at once - although that is the idea to a certain extent - but I thought I would try to get the complete loop in place which means building the viaduct :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kallaroonian]

I may have left this on the benchtop too long

 

[Kallaroonian]

I have been making progress with the extra time resulting from covid-at-home time + ongoing diligent effort anyway + covid time coinciding with a change of jobs interval.

 

It is all extraordinarily time-consuming but ... nevertheless.... satisfying to see progress coming together.

 

A big moment recently – the final part of the baseboards are in position to create a full loop !

 

The other three photos are shots forward and to left and right from the main operating position.

 

And there is Digswell viaduct!  It is scaled fully on Digswell in all dimensions except overall length. In that regard it’s only a little over half the length it should be but there’s not enough space for more and it’s the thought that counts :-)

 

Still much to do to finish the upper level and create an actual twisted loop or running space but some light at the end of the tunnel