DLT's SR Locos - Lord Nelson Craftsman Kit

[DLT]

Dave

From what I can remember in the 60's impact adhesive (Bostic, Evostic etc) was the recommended glue. Earlier than that I think a glue beginning with the letter D was used. The first Epoxy glue I can remember was Devcon

Hi John,

 

I can remember Bostic and Uhu being recommended, one reason being that if you cock it up you can pull it apart again.  Never heard of Evostick being used on a metal kit before though.  Could lead to problems with painting, seeing that ordinary white spirit dissolves it.  

I quite quickly came round to soldering as my preferred method, in spite of the advice in some magazines that  "Whitemetal soldering is fraught with difficulties and should only be attempted by the expert"   Which of course completely ignored the question of how one BECAME an expert.  "Rubbish!" said a loco building friend of mine when I mentioned this; and he showed me how to do it, complete with sizzling flux and clouds of smoke!

 

All the best,

Dave.

[mudmagnet]

I agree Dave, soldering whitemetal is much preferable to glueing. As long as the joints are very clean prior to soldering, then there should not be any problems - providing that the temperature of the iron is not too hot! I've soldered whitemetal using a normal iron (25W) before, but you must be very quick to prevent melt-down! The whitemetal does tarnish quickly, so only clean the joints to be soldered as required.

[The Stationmaster]

I put together - haha - a couple of whitemetal kits using adhesives which I seem to remember included trying Evostik (which didn't) and Seccotine (which sort of worked - for a while, Uhu was much better).  But I then converted to solder using a 12volt Oryx iron fed via an H&M Powermaster to reduce the temperature and Eames Lowmelt solder and flux (which tells you how long ago this was!).  This method worked a treat and the solder could easily be used as a gap filler for the smaller gaps which was rather useful.  the idea of using a 'normal heat' iron scared me stiff with visions of lost castings so I avoided it like the plague.

[N15class]

I first started with an old Antex 12v iron controlled through a HM duette. Also my first kits were soldered using Eames flux. Never glued a whitemetal kit. These days I also use other irons and my RSU.

[DLT]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I think we've discussed whitemetal soldering at length elsewhere on the forum, but just for the record, I use an ancient Weller 15watt iron that was bought by my Dad for electrical work.  Its not powerful enough to solder brass together but turned out to be perfect for whitemetal.  I started out using Eames flux, but now its Carrs Green Label and 70-degree solder.

I've done some soldering of the bodywork on this kit, but for now its on with the chassis.

All the best,

Dave.

[DLT]

Following the whitemetal soldering discussion, main bodywork is under way with the main components soldered together.  Although the castings fit together very well, care has to be taken to get everything positioned correctly.  The footplate at the front end was thicker one side than the other so had to be very carefully filed after assembly to get a flat and level footplate in front of the smokebox.

 

 

 

 

 

Chassis has been soldered together in the usual manner, screwed together with turned brass spacers, and then "L" shaped spacers soldered in place.  Lengths of silver-steel rod were threaded through the axle holes to ensure everything was square prior to soldering.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats all for now,

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 4, 2022 by DLT

[DLT]

I know I haven't updated this thread for about a month; I have been making progress but without a lot to show for it.

Boiler have been sorted out, it was slightly egg-shaped due to one half being slightly thicker than the other.  I got a bit over enthusiastic filing the smokebox, but as I intended to give it a new wrapper this didnt matter too much.

Also added a new front bufferbeam (missing from the kit) and the cab is all soldered up.

 

 

 

As I'm using Gibson wheels for this one, I need to get the chassis finished before I finally fit them.  Its had a few cosmetic overlays, but I need to sort out pickups and brakegear next.

 

 

 

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 4, 2022 by DLT

[emt_911]

Dave

 

I'm enjoying seeing the build.

 

It's giving me a few ideas and possibly the confidence (in the future) to build a kit for myself.

 

Duncan

[DLT]

I'm enjoying seeing the build.

 

It's giving me a few ideas and possibly the confidence (in the future) to build a kit for myself.

Hi Duncan,

That is good to hear, I hope you give it a go.

It can be very daunting to begin with, diving into a metal kit that you might have spent quite a lot of money on.  However theres a lot of stuff to be had secondhand (in various states of completion) if you want to find something just to "have a go" at.  For instance if you want to try whitemetal soldering, find an old/knocked about wagon kit that you can practice on without worrying about the cost of making a mess of it!

Good luck,

Dave.

[DLT]

Quick update; things are progressing, but nothing more to photograph as yet.  Brakegear is part-built, using parts from the Mainlytrains etch, but wont be fully assembled until later. 

I've decided to fit Backscratcher pickups.  Due to William Adams' preference for underhung springs and equalising beams on his locos, there is precious little room for the conventional pickup plate and rear wipers. Again this wont be fully fitted yet. 

As I've gone for Gibson wheels instead of Romford/Markits, I dont want to have to take them off once fitted, so its a "fit once" situation.  This means the chassis has to be finished/blackened/painted first.

Cheers, Dave.

[jwealleans]

Hi Dave,

 

The one of these we run at Ormesby has the pickups on the tender. Probably for the same reason.

[N15class]

Watching your progress makes me want to sort out the castings for my 7mm one.

[DLT]

Chassis has now been chemically blackened and sprayed matt black.

Two strips of copperclad fibreglass sleeper strip have been Araldited to the frames, and  "backscratcher" pickups fitted made from phos-bronze strip.  The trick with phosphor-bronze is to not put sharp bends in it, it breaks very easily.  So the strip was curved around a 1.6mm rod before soldering in place.  It will accept quite a bit of tweaking to get the bend right though.  Also the business end had a double curve put in it so that the face of the strip rubs the wheel and not the cut end.

The Gibson wheels are blackened and ready for fitting.

 

 

 

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 4, 2022 by DLT

[DLT]

Its alive! its alive!

 

My trusty GW Models wheelpress got everything assembled, and after a bit of tweaking of the pickups and some lubrication, it ran very satisfactorily.

Alan Gibson had run out of 8-foot coupling rods, so these were assembled from his universal coupling rod kit. Drilling them out to 1.6mm to take the bushes, the drill snatched and broke the end off one rod at a weak joint.  Fortunately there was enough left on the kit etch to repair it, and I drilled the rest by hand.

 

 

 

All the best, Dave.

Edited September 4, 2022 by DLT

[N15class]

Looks good Dave, are you going to add weight inbetween the frames at the front?

[DLT]

Thanks Peter,

The whitemetal body should supply plenty of weight, but if it turns out a bit rear-heavy I can fill the front-half of the boiler with lead. 

Cheers, Dave.

Edited February 26, 2014 by DLT

[DLT]

I've filled in the bottom of the boiler where its visible between the splashers.  It was done with a bit of curved brass and some trial-and-error bending.  Once it was about the right shape and would stay put, I soldered it in.

To keep the driving wheels firmly in contact I filled the front half of the boiler with a lump of lead.

 

 

 

Again, with a view to keeping the drivers on the rails, I've added a touch of springing to the carrying wheels.  By slotting the axle holes they can move up and down a touch, and springy wire acting on the treads keeps the wheels in contact AND provides pickup.

How well this will work in practice I know not, time will tell.  As I'm planning pickups on the tender, pickup on these wheels may not be necessary, so I can simplify the arrangement.

 

 

 

Putting it all together

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm now thinking that the cast boiler bands look a bit hefty, I might file them off and replace them with lining transfers.

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 4, 2022 by DLT

[Peter Bedding]

I've filled in the bottom of the boiler where its visible between the splashers.  It was done with a bit of curved brass and some trial-and-error bending.  Once it was about the right shape and would stay put, I soldered it in.

To keep the driving wheels firmly in contact I filled the front half of the boiler with a lump of lead.

 

 

Again, with a view to keeping the drivers on the rails, I've added a touch of springing to the carrying wheels.  By slotting the axle holes they can move up and down a touch, and springy wire acting on the treads keeps the wheels in contact AND provides pickup.

How well this will work in practice I know not, time will tell.  As I'm planning pickups on the tender, pickup on these wheels may not be necessary, so I can simplify the arrangement.

 

 

Putting it all together

 

 

 

 

I'm now thinking that the cast boiler bands look a bit hefty, I might file them off and replace them with lining transfers.

Cheers, Dave.

 

I think Dave, that you are at risk of running foul of one of Murphy's Laws. Namely a kit built to this standard is a sure-fire way to provoke a new r-t-r version. Great!

Many thanks!

 

A small number of these Jubilees just survived WW2, and quite possibly at that time they were carrying more than one 1940's livery between them. But best of all the A12's would also appeal to the growing interest in pre-grouping livery.

 

PB

Edited March 13, 2014 by Peter Bedding

[DLT]

Thanks for that Peter, I haven't decided on finish yet.  Shame they didn't last a bit longer, BR lined black would suit them very well I think

Cheers, Dave.

[DLT]

Time for another of my occasional updates on this loco, I've been working on the tender at last.

Body all soldered together very nicely, nothing to comment on there.  Whitemetal coal-rails often take a bit of a bashing, and this is no different.  I will leave these till last to sort out though, might even replace them with brass.

 

 

 

Inner chassis is a bit different though.  As per normal the axles run in whitemetal slots with retainers.  I wanted tender pickups, so this time a large pickup plate was fixed atop the chassis.  Pickup wires (15thou NS) bear on the tops of the treads, giving a touch of downward force to the wheels to keep them on the rail and picking up.  The bits of brass sheet are raising the body height to match the loco.

 

 

 

To keep the wheels removeable I've fitted longitudinal retaining wires, screwed in place, instead of gluing on the whitemetal retaining plates.  The 10ba securing nuts are a bit prominent, so I might change them.

 

 

 

 

 

Tender drawbar is my usual piece of copperclad fibreglass pcb, gapped for current conduction.  Need to install a plug & socket connection and some wiring, then see how it works.

 

 

 

Thats it for now,

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 4, 2022 by DLT

[ozzyo]

Hello Dave,

 

on the tender draw-bar would it not be better to gap it across its width as well? You could then add some wire to bridge the gaps and look like the feed water and vac / steam heat pipes.

 

Coming on well.

 

OzzyO.

[DLT]

Hello Dave,

on the tender draw-bar would it not be better to gap it across its width as well? You could then add some wire to bridge the gaps and look like the feed water and vac / steam heat pipes.

Coming on well.  OzzyO.

Thanks Ozzy, I hadn't thought of that.

Dave.

[Mallard60022]

Afternoon Dave. I have obtained a DJH U1 kit with motor/gearbox (DJH) from a kind RMWebber in Aus. If I could just take a step back a bit, may I ask if you/ everyone thinks it worth the effort to use the Finecast chassis? I know the U1 is a little different but I'm not too fussed if just using the DJH kit actually lets it look like a U1. It will only appear very briefly on the Cleethorpes/Sidmouth/Exmouth (SO: late July, August and a bit of September for two/three years; 60/62)

Once again, reference to your U build has been inspirational. Love the smoke-box wrapper BTW.

Phil

Edited June 3, 2014 by Mallard60022

[DLT]

Hi Mallard,

 

I'm struggling to remember what the DJH Chassis kit looked like!  All I can say is that the Finecast version looked finer and better detailed.  I do remember the djh brakegear looked rather massive in comparison, but hey, the S15 kit didnt have any!   See their illustration here:   http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/prodpage.asp?productid=3248     

I would be tempted to say go ahead as it is, I'm sure its perfectly buildable.

 

There is compromise in the whitemetal footplate; as described earlier its a bit "one size fits all" and is correct for the N1.  Being set higher on the U1, the step-down at the cab end isn't deep enough and doesn't line up with the step-up on the tender footplate.  Again see the DJH illustration.  Whether you want the extra hassle of modifying, and whether you will actually notice the difference once its running on the layout is very much down to the individual.  Whatever you decide, enjoy the build!

 

Hope this helps,

Dave.

[DLT]

Apologies for not updating this thread for over two months, been sidetracked by narrow gauge matters.

Should be running again shortly.

Cheers, Dave.