DLT's SR Locos - Lord Nelson Craftsman Kit

[DLT]

Ok, here's three ways you can squeeze a brass tube around a former for soldering, all held in the fingers.  Solder around the join a bit at a time, making sure that bit is well held.  If things get a bit warm for the fingertips you can wrap the strip of card round and tie it with wire, twisting it together to tighten.

 

 

 

 

When I built the PDK 700 a while back, I turned a length of brass rod to just fit the inner diameter, and Araldited it in place, wrapping and squeeezing the boiler tube while it set.  However I don't currently have access to turning facilities. 

 

Hope this helps!

Cheers, Dave.

[DLT]

Back to the smokebox front:  the pcb and brass discs were drilled on the centre and screwed together  to ensure concentricity before soldering.  Once cleaned up the assembly was Araldited into the front of the boiler tube and will be left weighted overnight before ANYTHING else is done to it.

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Dave.

[jrg1]

I find with internal discs, one problem is to stop them collapsing whilst trying to solder in position.

[Daddyman]

I find with internal discs, one problem is to stop them collapsing whilst trying to solder in position.

Solder a strip of scrap between them to hold them relative to each other, then place the whole unit in the boiler. Or solder a bit of rod to each one at a time so that you can hold them in place and see if they're in square. 

[DLT]

I find with internal discs, one problem is to stop them collapsing whilst trying to solder in position.

 

Yes, that can be an issue; I have some lengths of rod that are slightly smaller than the boiler diameter, and I push the discs in with them.  Once they are in square, gripping the sides of the tube as described above prevents the discs from moving.

 

Solder a strip of scrap between them to hold them relative to each other, then place the whole unit in the boiler. Or solder a bit of rod to each one at a time so that you can hold them in place and see if they're in square. 

 

Some good advice there.  

 

I've finished the smokebox front.  I filed the outer disc back to the boiler tube, getting it as "round" as I could, and then giving the edge a very slight radius.

The only visual indication on the prototype of where the water space ends and the smokebox begins is a single ring of rivets around the circumference.  These will (eventually) be represented by Archer transfers.

 

 

Cheers, Dave.

Edited December 7, 2016 by DLT

[DLT]

In case you are wondering; The bit f the rivet ring where the rivets don't meet up properly was the start and stop point.  Its positioned where it will be hidden under the smokebox door hinge.

Dave.

[number6]

Superb. All rivet counters can sleep easy again now we know that. 

 

Perhaps I should offer a pre-boiler rolling service: if you send me an etch I can squash it slightly and send it back. In my defence I think it was already like that - I actually prefer there not to be any pre-formed parts in a kit - in carriage kits I've had funny shaped roofs that didn't match the ends, wobbly tumblehomes etc. 

[DLT]

 In my defence I think it was already like that - I actually prefer there not to be any pre-formed parts in a kit - in carriage kits I've had funny shaped roofs that didn't match the ends, wobbly tumblehomes etc. 

 

It certainly wasn't squashed in the parcel I received, it was all very carefully packed.  

 

I'm happy to have parts pre-formed by the manufacturer, as long as they're formed correctly!  

Its a complete waste of time and effort if the builder has to un-form and then re-form; especially if the part has become work-hardened.

 

Cheers, Dave.

[Daddyman]

It certainly wasn't squashed in the parcel I received, it was all very carefully packed.  

 

I'm happy to have parts pre-formed by the manufacturer, as long as they're formed correctly!  

Its a complete waste of time and effort if the builder has to un-form and then re-form; especially if the part has become work-hardened.

 

Cheers, Dave.

Which is the case too often. Bradwell (unannealed) and LRM (annealed) are the best for truly round boilers, in my experience. I have a PDK boiler that has been rolled round but has "swollen" at all the apertures for boiler fittings. I've read about this happening, so I do think that a kit manufacturer should have been aware of the potential and taken steps to avert it (whatever those steps are), and/or checked for this effect before sending the kit out. Not quite sure what to do with the boiler as it stands: anneal and start again, or replace completely? 

[jrg1]

Which is the case too often. Bradwell (unannealed) and LRM (annealed) are the best for truly round boilers, in my experience. I have a PDK boiler that has been rolled round but has "swollen" at all the apertures for boiler fittings. I've read about this happening, so I do think that a kit manufacturer should have been aware of the potential and taken steps to avert it (whatever those steps are), and/or checked for this effect before sending the kit out. Not quite sure what to do with the boiler as it stands: anneal and start again, or replace completely? 

I would turn up a thick section of brass tube to the internal diameter-ie boiler diameter minus etch thickness, and clamp and solder the rolled etch to that

[DLT]

Which is the case too often. Bradwell (unannealed) and LRM (annealed) are the best for truly round boilers, in my experience. I have a PDK boiler that has been rolled round but has "swollen" at all the apertures for boiler fittings. I've read about this happening, so I do think that a kit manufacturer should have been aware of the potential and taken steps to avert it (whatever those steps are), and/or checked for this effect before sending the kit out. Not quite sure what to do with the boiler as it stands: anneal and start again, or replace completely? 

 

Difficult to make a suggestion without seeing it; do you have a Workbench topic running?  Don't forget that big chimney and dome castings can cover up a mis-shapen hole.  Or do you have a set of Rollers you can put it through?

 

Rolling can be tricky; sometimes the instructions are to roll it like it was pastry but on a soft surface.  All this has achieved for me is a slight curve, nowhere near a tube!

 

Like many aspects of modelling, there is allsorts of advice and differing methods out there.  I suggest getting some sheet brass and trying out some techniques BEFORE you attempt to roll your expensive etched kit part!

 

I would turn up a thick section of brass tube to the internal diameter-ie boiler diameter minus etch thickness, and clamp and solder the rolled etch to that

 

Good suggestion, I did something similar with the 700 I built for Darren.  With a large chunk of brass like that I Araldited the boiler tube to it; squeezing and holding everything in place by hand while the Araldite (Rapid) went off.

I only installed it in the front section of the boiler, as I needed all the internal space to the rear for the motor and gearbox.  This did however, give the whole thing sufficient strength.

 

Cheers, Dave.

[DLT]

Back to the footplate.

For some reason it had developed a curvature, something I've never had before with this method of construction.  Luckily it needed an extra layer of brass to increase the depth of the valance, which should be about 2.5mm deep, as scaled from the photos.  

I made a series of cross-cuts, about half the depth of the PCB, filled them with Araldite and glued and clamped a strip of brass along each side.  This had the effect of increasing the depth AND straitening/strengthening the footplate by creating a sandwich construction.

After leaving to set overnight, small squares of brass were soldered behind the bufferbeams and filed to the curved shape of the valance ends.

Once again, the photos should explain.

 

 

 

Cheers, Dave.

Edited December 9, 2016 by DLT

[DLT]

This is getting a bit like creating my own kit of parts, that will all have to go together in one go.

 

I had anticipated I might have to make overlays for the tanks, and after cutting and reshaping so it proved.  

There are others on this forum in a far better position to describe the bending process, suffice to say 10thou (.25mm) brass was used and I got there by much trial and error.  After that, marking out and pressing the rivets was a welcome relief.

The overlay will be araldited to the much-hacked whitemetal sidetank, to give the whole thing plenty of weight and solidity.

 

 

 

That's all for tonight,

Dave.

[jrg1]

I find 70 solder for whitemetal and 188 solder for brass far simpler than Araldite-and it can be simply unsoldered with boiling water.  Tinning the brass first with 188, and then using 70 to join the WM gives a good joint.

[DLT]

I find 70 solder for whitemetal and 188 solder for brass far simpler than Araldite-and it can be simply unsoldered with boiling water.  Tinning the brass first with 188, and then using 70 to join the WM gives a good joint.

Thanks JRG,

I'm actually quite a champion of whitemetal soldering, and will use it as my first-choice whenever I can.  However in this instance when laminating two large flat pieces together, I'm not entirely happy about achieving a good join over the entire surface.  

Hence an araldited solution, where the two parts can be slid in to place and clamped flat while drying.  

I probably didn't mention earlier that the whitemetal tanks are already a soldered sub-assembly.  I will still solder small parts on, but heating the whole thing again will cause problems.  Also there are still parts to be attached on the inside, where the boiler top will sit.

All the best,

Dave.

[bigbadbadge]

Very nice work indeed Dave.

 

All the best
Chris

[jrg1]

Thanks JRG,

I'm actually quite a champion of whitemetal soldering, and will use it as my first-choice whenever I can.  However in this instance when laminating two large flat pieces together, I'm not entirely happy about achieving a good join over the entire surface.  

Hence an araldited solution, where the two parts can be slid in to place and clamped flat while drying.  

I probably didn't mention earlier that the whitemetal tanks are already a soldered sub-assembly.  I will still solder small parts on, but heating the whole thing again will cause problems.  Also there are still parts to be attached on the inside, where the boiler top will sit.

All the best,

Dave.

Yes-I have had similar.  My solution was to drill some holes in the WM-say 3/8"  and then clamp the brass and WM section together and run 70 solder round the hole.  Similar to strenghening plates on trestrols having sections cut out to increased weld contact area (Well, that's my excuse).  I find that large WM sections can act as a heat sink, so if you are quick, assemblies may be added-takes practice though.

As an aside, I have noticed that 70 soldered joints seem to be brittle, and a knock can cause the joint to fail..

[Deano747]

Quote jrg1 from above - "As an aside, I have noticed that 70 soldered joints seem to be brittle, and a knock can cause the joint to fail.."

 

Can I assume you haven't tried the Carrs 100c solder? No tinning of the brass required, flows well and forms a good solid joint. 

 

Regards, Deano.

[DLT]

Thanks very much for you thoughts on the methods Mr.jrg.

 

As an aside, I have noticed that 70 soldered joints seem to be brittle, and a knock can cause the joint to fail..

 

I've not come accross that issue, usually its solid as a rock.

 

Quote jrg1 from above - "As an aside, I have noticed that 70 soldered joints seem to be brittle, and a knock can cause the joint to fail.."

 

Can I assume you haven't tried the Carrs 100c solder? No tinning of the brass required, flows well and forms a good solid joint. 

 

Regards, Deano.

 

I didn't know about this one, perhaps I should check it out.

 

Many thanks guys,

Dave.

[jrg1]

Quote jrg1 from above - "As an aside, I have noticed that 70 soldered joints seem to be brittle, and a knock can cause the joint to fail.."

 

Can I assume you haven't tried the Carrs 100c solder? No tinning of the brass required, flows well and forms a good solid joint. 

 

Regards, Deano.

I have not heard of this one, Deano-can you provide more information, please?

[Deano747]

This was recommended in another thread on here (but I can't remember which one!)

As I understand it, and anyone please correct me, it was developed as an alternative to the 70deg solder and doesn't contain the nasty stuff that the 70 has if it is heated too high. Hence the requirement for separate tips for 70deg.

I have only recently started using it for white metal to brass but it will do white metal to white metal. It isn't a gap filler like 70deg and the other drawback is the higher temp iron tip required so to be used with caution on smaller w/m parts. I still use 70deg for these! I use Carrs yellow flux for just about everything and it works fine with the 100deg. (Although I've started using HBO Z60 for brass work and haven't tried this with 100deg yet!) Cleanliness of the mating surfaces being of utmost importance, as always!

Available from C&L Finescale, £7.50/ packet. (No connection, just a happy customer!)

 

Regards, Deano.

 

Edit Spelling!!

Edited December 13, 2016 by Deano747

[DLT]

In case you thought this topic has gone a bit quiet, things are progressing, but there's nothing much to photograph at the mo.

Cheers, Dave.

[DLT]

A quick interim report;

 

I can't upload any photos at the mo, as my computer is up the shoot and being repaired.  I'm temporarily using my son's laptop, with its multitudinous gaming popups and adverts constantly interrupting.  

 

Anyway, I've at last sorted the tanks and boiler, the whole thing is turning into more of a scratchbuild than a kit adaptation.  Rather than adding overlays to the tanks, I've effectively built new tanks and stuck the old ones inside them.  

 

Next job is to sort out the smokebox saddle and here we come up against the classic issue of 00 gauge.  The splashers should fit outside the saddle, but at scale spacing the flanges will be visible from above.  So its going to be a compromise, getting the splashers close enough together to hide the flanges, and keeping the saddle as wide as possible.

As for space for the decoder, I think it will have to go on top of the motor on a small blob of Blue-Tac.  There's certainly plenty of vertical space in that high pitched boiler.

 

Photos will be up as soon as I can.

Cheers, Dave.

 

PS  I will shortly have to take a break from this project, with exhibitions in the new-year looming, lots of jobs to do on my own rolling stock and Shepton Mallet is barely eight weeks away! 

[number6]

Ugh! the guilt. But it sounds like a break from it would be good anyway? Also many of those so-called rebuilt engines were nothing of the sort on the real railway so perhaps consider this an accounting exercise rather than rebuild.

 

Best wishes. 

[DLT]

Right, got my computer back at last, so time to add some photos.

 

With the tanks done and fitted to the footplate, we can actually see whats its starting to look like.  Firstly detail of the tanks shows the new footstep, and the strip of pcb on the inside where the boiler-top sits.

 

 

With the boiler in place its starting the take on the brutish utilitarian appearance of it's prototype.

 

 

 

That's probably all on this loco for a little while, but I'll keep you posted.

 

Cheers, Dave.