DLT's SR Locos - Lord Nelson Craftsman Kit

[DLT]

F.J. Roche and Iain Beattie both tried to produce one for the "new-build", and both were wrong in the area of the cab front, and also the level of the footplate (Roche used the same height above rail level as for the rebuilt Rivers).

I always forget to check Roche. Having looked, the U depicted in the Roche book IS a rebuilt River. I cant find the Beattie drawing listed anywhere, do you know when/where was it published?

 

The works diagrams that were published elsewhere have tended to be weight diagrams, not GAs.

Although they are useful in that they list a lot of dimensions.

 

Many thanks,

Dave.

[bbishop]

Dave,

 

You may want to access The Locomotive History of the South Eastern & Chatham Railway by Don Bradley, which details the various changes to frames and chimneys. Slightly less complex are the tender changes to the U-boats. All the new boats had 4000 gall tenders by 3/39 but after the war some were fitted with 3500 gall tenders:

31610 - 3/53 to 6/57

31613 - 9/47 to 8/62

31616 - 10/57

31618 - 2/44

31619 - 5/46

31625 - 12/47

31629 - 10/47

31638 - 10/47

 

The last six to withdrawal, and (3)1618 is preserved with a 3500 gall tender on the Bluebell Railway.

 

Bill

[DLT]

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks very much for the information. I've not seen that particular Bradley book, but I will keep a look out for it.

 

Cheers,

Dave.

[Horsetan]

I always forget to check Roche. Having looked, the U depicted in the Roche book IS a rebuilt River.

 

Yes, but the cabside is a "new-build"!!

 

I cant find the Beattie drawing listed anywhere, do you know when/where was it published?

 

Southern Locomotives to Scale. Don't worry, you're not missing anything.

[Tim Hale]

Dave,

 

You may want to access The Locomotive History of the South Eastern & Chatham Railway by Don Bradley, which details the various changes to frames and chimneys. Slightly less complex are the tender changes to the U-boats. All the new boats had 4000 gall tenders by 3/39 but after the war some were fitted with 3500 gall tenders:

31610 - 3/53 to 6/57

31613 - 9/47 to 8/62

31616 - 10/57

31618 - 2/44

31619 - 5/46

31625 - 12/47

31629 - 10/47

31638 - 10/47

 

The last six to withdrawal, and (3)1618 is preserved with a 3500 gall tender on the Bluebell Railway.

 

Bill

 

Bill,

 

31613* was seen on M&SWJR on 14th March '61 and there is a different photo of 31613 at Southampton coupled to the larger tender whilst 31610 seems to have been fitted with the smaller tender until 1961, unless two separate images of the loco in '60 are incorrectly dated.

 

However many thanks for the information, the model is intended for Beaminster Road and hopefully will depict an example based in the area - 31610 was a long term Exmouth lass.

 

Tim

 

*http://www.swindonso...o.uk/dl300.html

Edited October 13, 2012 by Tim Hale

[DLT]

At last some actual modelling of the U to report, and a good look over the kit to suss out all the variations available,

Firstly the footplate comes in two parts, and the first job was soldering them together. Made my usual cradle to support it during construction.
Referring to the works photos of the N & U shows the difference in the footplates. The U's is higher (to clear the higher cylinders) and the high section is longer than on the N.
That supplied in the kit appear to be a compromise between the two (to cover both locos?) but I reckon its close enough to pass muster. Replacing it would be a major job.



The boiler and firebox castings look really good, fit together well and sit on the footplate perfectly.





The smokebox is nicely round in section, but does have a slight flare towards the front end. Not a problem as it can be filed down, and will need a brass overlay anyway; there should be a line of rivits round the rear edge of the smokebox, but no sign of them on the casting.

More later,
Dave.

Edited March 10, 2018 by DLT

[DLT]

The etches in the kit include various alternatives for building U, U1, N, & N1 including two patterns of cab, and the various different front-ends.
The cabs are clearly labelled, but some parts are just listed as alternatives. The instructions assume knowledge of the prototype, as its not always clear which bits go with which loco. Also parts are numbered in the exploded diagrams, but there is no corresponding numbering on the frets. So you need to know your variations, and the old advice of working from a good photo of your chosen loco is valid here.





I've done battle with the South East Finecast chassis before, when building the W-Class. It covers the U & U1 variations and very nice it is too.



The chosen drive mechanism is my favourite combination of Mashima & Highlevel. This time its a 1424 motor and SlimlinerPlus 54:1 gearbox.



Cheers,
Dave.

Edited March 10, 2018 by DLT

[Tim Hale]

It may seem odd combining DJH and SEF parts and even the tender is sourced from Hornby but it seems the only route to build a better U-class,

 

However it is really Dave's skill and expertise that make the difference between an average model and a stunning locomotive.

 

Tim

[Horsetan]

The etches in the kit include various alternatives for building U, U1, N, & N1 including two patterns of cab, and the various different front-ends....

 

The same wrapover is used for the "U" and the "N" roof and cabsides, but the point at which it meets the footplate on either class is different (the section below footplate level is deeper on the "U" because the footplate is higher up). I do have the DJH "N" kit, but transferred the "U" cab front, spectacles and buffer beam etch to the collection of bits for my own "U", and will have to create a spare of the wrapover, modified for the "U".

 

It doesn't get any easier.....

 

The SEF "U" chassis is a good one, created by the late Alistair Rolfe as a quickie to upgrade the ancient Wills kit. Hence it does not have P4-specific spacers, and does not have the full 3-section die-block/ expansion links. That was later rectified in the chassis for the "River" tank kit, which gives you everything, and then some.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Horsetan

[DLT]

Thanks a lot Horse, do you have any photos?

Dave.

[N15class]

I am enjoying this build. I am looking to build a N class in 7mm on day for myself. so it is nice to see the pitfalls before I do.

 

It is a rare old mixture of parts, almost easier to scratch build.

[lofty1966]

Just read through all twelve pages.

Stunning work !

Keep it up !

[Horsetan]

Thanks a lot Horse, do you have any photos?

 

Not of the 'River' kit, but I do have exploded diagrams and a parts list for it. Would those be of use to you?

[DLT]

I am enjoying this build. I am looking to build a N class in 7mm on day for myself. so it is nice to see the pitfalls before I do.

It is a rare old mixture of parts, almost easier to scratch build.

Thanks Peter.

The N makes a very impressive model in 0-Gauge.

I have no knowledge of the 7mm scale kits for these locos, but I would assume that a greater accuracy is to be had.

 

Just read through all twelve pages.

Stunning work ! Keep it up !

Thanks very much Lofty, you probably deserve a medal for reading through the whole thread, did you do in one sitting?

I notice that some of the photos of the W-build have vanished, I will try and get them up again (if I can remember which ones they were)

 

Not of the 'River' kit, but I do have exploded diagrams and a parts list for it. Would those be of use to you?

Thanks Horse, I'm sure they would be. Do you have them in electronic form, or do you need a postal address?

 

All the best,

Dave.

[Horsetan]

...Do you have them in electronic form, or do you need a postal address?...

 

Some of it is A3 paper. Better if you let me have your postal address by PM.

 

Note: you may not have to make your own smokebox overlay, as the SEF "River" kit includes one in its etches, I think. The detail etches have useful bits on them, and are worth having.

[DLT]

The cab is a very nice peoce of etching, and rolls in one piece. Bit of a pain to get all the curves in the right place and symetrical to fit the front, but a bit of trial and error paid off.
The etched handrails will not last last though, they will be replaced with .5mm brass wire. Beading around the cutout is a bit heavy, but can be rounded off to a degree.

Getting the chassis on its wheels at last gives the chance to look at the proportions, measure the various heights etc.



Standing it all together, alongside the excellent Hornby 3500gal tender makes the problem all-too obvious. The cab and tender footplates should line up; the footplate above the drivers is the correct height, but the front and rear stepdowns arent deep enough.
I think I can get round this by cutting horizontally through the vertical sections, inserting a spacing piece and fixing everything back together.
I think thats a go-er!
Dave.

Edited March 10, 2018 by DLT

[Horsetan]

The curved drop sections are what I mean about the cabside sheets having to be modified if they are to be correct.

 

I have dropped a hint to RT Models about whether it might be possible to design an etched footplate and cab front for the new-build "U", with an option to cover the BR re-framed engines with curved tops to the front frames. The idea is that the Bachmann "N" boiler and cab can then be "plonked" (ha!) on top, and the whole combined with SEF's "U" chassis etch. Might also be possible to fit the DJH boiler and cab assembly as an alternative.

[DLT]

I have dropped a hint to RT Models about whether it might be possible to design an etched footplate and cab front for the new-build "U", with an option to cover the BR re-framed engines with curved tops to the front frames. The idea is that the Bachmann "N" boiler and cab can then be "plonked" (ha!) on top, and the whole combined with SEF's "U" chassis etch. Might also be possible to fit the DJH boiler and cab assembly as an alternative.

Interesting, sounds expensive though. Isnt the Bachman N-class difficult to take apart?

Dave.

[Horsetan]

... Isnt the Bachman N-class difficult to take apart?

 

No. Particularly not when the mazak casting has crumbled!

[Tim Hale]

Interesting, sounds expensive though. Isnt the Bachman N-class difficult to take apart?

Dave.

 

It is tedious rather than difficult. The trick is knowing which screws to remove and where to relieve the metal when replacing the footplate casting. The casting are freely (literally) from Bachmann in exchange for an email.

 

Would it be easier to use the DJH tender?

 

Tim

[DLT]

Well I've taken the plunge, and taken a saw-blade to the footplate.
The idea is to saw horizontally through the drop-section just below the footplate, insert a spacer of the correct depth and solder it all back together.
This gives us a footplate with the correct vertical dimensions for the U-Class, with a drop of about 6.5mm, as opposed to the 5mm drop of the supplied footplate (correct for the N)





The photos show the procedure on the front footplate section. I have to admit I've already done the rear, to make sure it would work before I put any photos up!

Cheers,
Dave.

Edited March 10, 2018 by DLT

[Barry Ten]

Well I've taken the plunge, and taken a saw-blade to the footplate.

The idea is to saw horizontally through the drop-section just below the footplate, insert a spacer of the correct depth and solder it all back together.

This gives us a footplate with the correct vertical dimensions for the U-Class, with a drop of about 6.5mm, as opposed to the 5mm drop of the supplied footplate (correct for the N)

 

 

 

The photos show the procedure on the front footplate section. I have to admit I've already done the rear, to make sure it would work before I put any photos up!

 

Cheers,

Dave.

 

That's an interesting approach. Potentially it could fix the similar problem with the DJH 7F, where the frame doesn't drop down enough ahead of the cylinders.

[DLT]

Footplate rebuilding has been completed successfully, I will put some photos up later.

dave.

[N15class]

Footplate rebuilding has been completed successfully, I will put some photos up later.

dave.

 

Sounds more like a giving birth comment than a modelling moment.

 

Glad it worked makes the old satisfaction level rise.

[DLT]

Sounds more like a giving birth comment than a modelling moment.

"Builder and model both doing well"