Mixed doubles - the most unlikely pairings pre-1968

[pH]

I know this is an old topic to resurrect, but I found this when searching for something else. Class 15 passenger power, anyone?

 

http://www.6g.nwrail.org.uk/70046jp0001.jpg

[scots region]

Wow, that would be special to watch.

[LMS2968]

Now that is unusual! Granted, it was unusual to see a Stanier pacific double heading anyway, but when it happened there were three basic rules:

 

The assisting engine had to lead

The assisting engine had to be a 4-4-0, 4-6-0 or 2-6-4T

Two (Stanier?) pacifics could not be run together.

 

Whether or not this last prohibition included other classes of pacifics or if here the rule was being broken, I cannot say.

[The Lurker]

I know the Southern had the habit of adding engines to the front of trains to reduce light engine workings (there's a picture of a King Arthur, a Schools and a T9 working a service in the 30's in the Margate/Ramsgate area in P Ransome Wallis' Southern Album) . Could this be something of the same?

[LMS2968]

Probably. It was a common way to save a path all over the country.

[byron]

Now that is unusual! Granted, it was unusual to see a Stanier pacific double heading anyway, but when it happened there were three basic rules:

 

The assisting engine had to lead

The assisting engine had to be a 4-4-0, 4-6-0 or 2-6-4T

Two (Stanier?) pacifics could not be run together.

 

Whether or not this last prohibition included other classes of pacifics or if here the rule was being broken, I cannot say.

May well have been a failed Duchess. It did happen.

 

Mike

[jonny777]

Now that is unusual! Granted, it was unusual to see a Stanier pacific double heading anyway, but when it happened there were three basic rules:

 

The assisting engine had to lead

The assisting engine had to be a 4-4-0, 4-6-0 or 2-6-4T

Two (Stanier?) pacifics could not be run together.

 

Whether or not this last prohibition included other classes of pacifics or if here the rule was being broken, I cannot say.

 

 

Fortunately, these rules were not adhered to on July 9th 1964, according to the colour photo on plate 71 of "The Steam Age In Colour" by R Preston Hendry and R Powell Hendry.

 

This shows 46238 City Of Carlisle leading 70004 William Shakespeare on a Camden to Carlisle fitted goods train passing on the down fast through Rugby.

[Coach bogie]

 

 

 

(King + King wasn't allowed on the GWR according to the General Appendix 1936)

 

Keith

 

Double headed Kings were common place in the 1950's where the engine of the CRE was changed at Newton abbot and coupled to the following 10.35 which was also usually King hauled. The headboard could be seen reversed on my photos taken at the time.

 

Other unusual pairings in the same area were SR pacifics double heading with ex GWR engines in Devon.

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276409/Article/images/20971740/6021908-large.jpg

 

 

As for the rule book the GWR had their exceptions. Try two pairs of Kings deflection testing new bridges!

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrs1567.htm

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[bike2steam]

Other unusual pairings in the same area were SR pacifics double heading with ex GWR engines in Devon.

 

Mike Wiltshire

That was quite common as a certain number of Exmouth Junction, and Friary crews had to keep up their route knowledge of the GW main-line between Plymouth, and Exeter in case of diversions, and vice-versa. And not just Southern pacifics.

Edited November 18, 2014 by bike2steam

[60091]

Throughout the 1950s and early 60s weekend diversions off the Durham coast line could be diverted at Ryhope Grange, south of Sunderland, to climb the 1/37 Seaton Bank. Travelling south they ran via Murton, Haswell, Wellfield and Castle Eden before descending Heseldene Bank to re-join the coast route at Hart, just north of Hartlepool.

 

Because of the 1/37 climb, trains were piloted up to Haswell where the loco was detached. Until 1959/60 Sunderland South Dock provided the pilot locos. Typical pairings were A4s, A3s, A2s etc piloted by A8s and V1/3s.

 

Somewhere, however, there is a published photo of a G5 piloting an A4...! IIRC the train is passing the remains of Seaton Station, about half way up the bank. I'm not sure why the G5 was used, or how much help it was able to provide.

 

Alan

Edited November 18, 2014 by 60091

[scots region]

Fortunately, these rules were not adhered to on July 9th 1964, according to the colour photo on plate 71 of "The Steam Age In Colour" by R Preston Hendry and R Powell Hendry.

 

This shows 46238 City Of Carlisle leading 70004 William Shakespeare on a Camden to Carlisle fitted goods train passing on the down fast through Rugby.

 

"Botheration" fumed Carlie the Coronation pacific as she scraped to a halt, 'Bloomin, Vacuums cut out!"

 

Her vans grumbled at the delay, "Stinking Staniers, load of Pseudo-swindonian boll..."  

 

"That enough." Snapped the guard, then turning to the Coronation "Calm down now, the relief is on its way."

 

Carlie sighed. "I suppose it'll be a whistler, of all the indignities, hauled in by an engine with a lung infection!"

 

But it was much worse. Presently a whistle was heard, and it was distinctly non electric. Dread settled in Carlie's firebox. "Oh no" she half wailed.

 

Chuckling a little, William pulled alongside "Afternoon Granny" he smiled.

 

"Dearest Grandson, a rose by another name is just as sweet, but at least its not you"

 

"Oh" smirked William "Methinks she doth protest."

 

"I'll do far worse if you don't get a move on, young engine!"

 

"Et to" chuckled William as he backed down and Carlie resisted the urge to scream.

 

They made good time, well good time by 1964s standards at least. Obvious joke is obvious.

 

"So" began Willam in an ill-advised attempt to strike up a conversation. "I never thought I'd see you develop loose bags", Carlie's reply was (thankfully) lost.

 

"I never though I'd see you back from swallying around France" After she had finished spluttering "I can't imagine why those SNCF Locomotives would have seen you gone"

 

"Ah the air in Paris was sweet and the music so much sweeter" William grinned and Carlie secretly prayed for his tender link to break and for him to go away.

 

"No". He continued, "They weren't fans of the stiff upper lip stuff, I suppose I annoyed them about Normandy as well, the shed visits were very Napoleonic."

 

"Oh?" asked Carlie. "Short and not very pleasant then?" It was Williams turn to cringe.

 

"Missed the banter" he abashed. "I heard there was a pacific stuck and thought I'd lend a wheel, never thought it would be one of you lot, all that stuff about sparks in Crewe and going over the Rockies..."

 

"That was Hamilton, and he only did it to wind up Coronation!"

 

"You always did have a way of keeping it in the family, so that what I'd thought I'd do, I am a bit of a riddle after all"

 

"You would make father very proud" confided Carlie as they speed on.     

[LMS2968]

You know, I think you missed your vocation somewhere along the way!

[unclebobkt]

... .

... .

  As for the rule book the GWR had their exceptions. Try two pairs of Kings deflection testing new bridges!

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrs1567.htm      Mike Wiltshire

 

  I wonder how many modellers are aware of the BoT. Regs. as mentioned in the final paragraph of the above posting?

     

[andytrains]

Pair of Claytons on an Orangemans special in Scotland.

The shedmaster who allocated the engines to that train must have been Catholic, as it was likely to fail.

There is also a picture, I cannot remember where of an A4 piloted by a Black Five, I think it was on a fish train, from Aberdeen.

[great central]

There's a picture somewhere of a pair of 9Fs heading a freight up the GC, knowing how they were often driven that would have been a sight to see.

[melmerby]

There's a picture somewhere of a pair of 9Fs heading a freight up the GC, knowing how they were often driven that would have been a sight to see.

Here's a pair on a mixed train:

 

http://www.lner.info/forums/download/file.php?id=124&sid=f36be9ab32c9bedc3961bdf0c1a5fecb

 

preservation era!

 

Keith

Edited April 20, 2015 by melmerby

[pH]

I found these while looking for pictures of Standard Class 4 tanks on freight.

 

Standard Class 4 tank piloting ex-LNER named K2 on fish:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/48/415/

 

Standard Class 4 tank piloting ex-LMS 2P on another fish train:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/49/384/

 

[ikks]

I saw two unusual combinations(perhaps not so exotic as some of the aforemwntioned examples) at Tamworth in the late fifties/early sixties, they were:

 

A Brit headed by an unrebuilt Patriot heading North...notes long since lost, so don't have the engine numbers

 

City of London headed by Jubilee Palestine heading South , the train absolutely flying.

Both wonderful sights.

 

Mike

[Dunsignalling]

I was, years ago, regaled with the wonderful tale of an up WR express hauled by one of the first Westerns, which failed somewhere between Starcross and Exeter St Thomas. A Warship (800 type) was despatched to rescue it, but that also broke.

 

The sorry ensemble was eventually dragged into St Davids by one of the SR Z class bankers. Wish I'd been there!

 

John

[Wickham Green]

Not far away, I was waiting for a train from Newton Abbot to Plymouth - almost thirty years ago - and the tannoys announced that there would be a delay after a failure of some sort .............  when the HST* finally appeared it had filthy 50.015 "Valiant" on the front and it put a respectable performance over the banks.

 

* 43.027/183

Edited July 15, 2019 by Wickham Green
correction

[LMS2968]

Long ago, a photo appeared in the 8F Society's magazine showing a Black Five at the head of a passenger train, but with TWO 'Peaks' behind the tender.

 

The editor commented that it was no wonder steam lasted so long.

[The Stationmaster]

On 18/11/2014 at 11:41, Coach bogie said:

 

Double headed Kings were common place in the 1950's where the engine of the CRE was changed at Newton abbot and coupled to the following 10.35 which was also usually King hauled. The headboard could be seen reversed on my photos taken at the time.

 

Other unusual pairings in the same area were SR pacifics double heading with ex GWR engines in Devon.

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276409/Article/images/20971740/6021908-large.jpg

 

 

As for the rule book the GWR had their exceptions. Try two pairs of Kings deflection testing new bridges!

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrs1567.htm

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

The prohibition on the running of two 'Kings' coupled - either running light or train working - was removed in October 1948. (and had been partially relaxed in 1941).

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

Long ago, a photo appeared in the 8F Society's magazine showing a Black Five at the head of a passenger train, but with TWO 'Peaks' behind the tender.

 

The editor commented that it was no wonder steam lasted so long.

 

During the big freeze of the winter of 1962/63 the combination of steam/diesel was not uncommon but in the reverse order to provide heat for the train.The provision of heating boilers in the then newly introduced form of traction was usually unreliable and inadequate.I remember a combination of a Standard 5 coupled inside a Peak Sulzer type 4 ( Class 45) at New Street in early 1963.

[Wickham Green]

It didn't take long for the powers that be to realise that putting steam locos in front of diesels wasn't a very good idea anyway !

[Coach bogie]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

The prohibition on the running of two 'Kings' coupled - either running light or train working - was removed in October 1948. (and had been partially relaxed in 1941).

 The bridge testing with TWO double headed Kings light engine was in 1933.

 

Mike Wiltshire