Model Rail Sentinel

[spikey]

Cheers mister.  If Trackshack's service is as good as it's always been so far, I'll be on the case this time tomorrow

[spikey]

And by way of an update, the Peco version of Electrolube came today, I got chance to have a go with it, and the Sentinel certainly runs better after three applications, each followed by a run round the track and the application of tissue to soak up as much as possible of what remained.  So ... an improvement but not a cure.

 

But this matter is now on hold pending a major rebuild of the railway, which has been brought forward by circumstances beyond my control

Edited March 29, 2017 by spikey

[JSpencer]

I looked closely at mine last night, and I think actually the pickups are at the stub axle ends rather than the inner axle bearings.

 

Ideally we need a liquid which breaks down grease and dirt but then dries to leave a perfect electrical contact for these. Certainly not WD-40, that kills all contact in one hit!

[SDJR7F88]

A short running session featuring the all the Model Rail / Dapol Sentinel, in eye-catch NCB Purple Livery with Wasp Strips, edited with Real Sound. 
Sounds are provided by a Steam Sentinel, No. 7109 "Joyce" from my sound collection, hauling trains on the Somerset & Dorset Railway at Midsomer Norton.
Hope you enjoy!

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Sorry to re-awaken an old thread, but does anyone have a copy of the service sheet/parts diagram for this that they could send me please?

 

I purchased one of these second hand with several parts missing or broken and I'm trying to get the bits to repair it.

Particularly, the previous owner has installed 3-link couplings, but rather than unscrew and remove the NEM pockets, they have just decided to cut the pockets off the swivelling coupling mount.
It didn't come with any paperwork and I'm trying to work out what part number I need for replacement pockets, if they're even available, and whether they're a standard Dapol part or specific to this model.

I've tried Dapol themselves, and Kernow (who handle the Model Rail sales), but neither could help. DCC Supplies haven't responded to my e-mails.

Thanks
Daniel

 

[RodneyS]

I have a Sentinel with the original instruction sheet.

It's a single sided sheet of A4 size paper.  One half gives prototype details and the other half shows how to fit a decoder.

There is no parts list or any information on dismantling the model other than removing the body.  This just pulls off after squeezing the ends in case that is of any use.

My model now makes such a noise that I've given up using it.

I suspect some oil would help but there is no obvious way of getting access to the motor.

 

This may be why the previous owner cut the couplings off rather than unscrewing them.

Good luck.

Rodney

[MG 7305]

The telephone is a wonderful invention.  I have always found DCC Supplies to be very helpful.  Try 01905 621999 Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays 10.30am - 12.00pm and 2.00pm to 4.00pm.  Otherwise here is a link to a list of available spares:  https://www.dccsupplies.com/cat-770/sentinel.htm.  The internet is a wonderful thing.  I found DCC Supplies amazingly helpful when I needed some spares for mine.  Good luck.

[PhilJ W]

I have the instruction sheet in front of me but I don't think it will be very helpful. All it covers is lubrication and fitting DCC. I have a Dapol wagon and the coupling appears to be identical and held on by a plastic pin.

14 minutes ago, RodneyS said:

I have a Sentinel with the original instruction sheet.

It's a single sided sheet of A4 size paper.  One half gives prototype details and the other half shows how to fit a decoder.

There is no parts list or any information on dismantling the model other than removing the body.  This just pulls off after squeezing the ends in case that is of any use.

My model now makes such a noise that I've given up using it.

I suspect some oil would help but there is no obvious way of getting access to the motor.

 

This may be why the previous owner cut the couplings off rather than unscrewing them.

Good luck.

Rodney

 Its not the motor that needs oiling, just the gears as shown on the instruction sheet. 

I don't have a scanner but if someone could scan the instruction sheet and post it here it would be very helpful.

Edited June 30, 2021 by PhilJ W

[LittleRedTrain]

Thanks all for the info, disappointing that the full service sheet isn't easily available.

I will give DCC Supplies a call when I get an opportunity, not easy when they're only available during the hours I'm working, which is why I prefer to use e-mail first if at all possible.
Also, recent post on the site suggests they're on limited staff at the moment http://helpdesk.dccsupplies.com/index.php?/News/NewsItem/View/258 and would prefer e-mail contact, so don't want to bother by phone them for something non-urgent.

I did look at the spares list on their site, but couldn't find the coupling pockets, which is why I was hoping I might be able to find out the exact part number first.

[RodneyS]

I regret that I don't have a scanner either so cannot post the instruction sheet.

I have oiled the gears as mentioned but it is still very noisy.   It does sound like a motor bearing to me but that is completely hidden.

Rodney

[MyRule1]

All the sheet supplied with the loco says is "add a small amount of oil directly onto the exposed gears on the underside of both axles. The picture just has arrow pointing  to the two oiling points (gears). As previously mentioned there is no service sheet as such as the rest of the A4 sheet is taken up with fitting DCC, the warranty and type history. It does warn that over oiling can damage the mechanism and the "No part of the motor requires oiling".

Edited June 30, 2021 by MyRule1

[PhilJ W]

Comparing the couplings on my locomotive with a Dapol wagon they appear identical. Neither of them have a NEM pocket but the coupling is held in place by a plastic pin on which they have limited side to side movement. I intend to fit Kaydee's to mine so the lack of a NEM pocket could be a problem. Are NEM pockets to fit on stock not so equipped available?

[mikesndbs]

When I stripped mine down for a service this is what I found.

Tiny drop of plastic safe oil on front motor bearing, Labelle 102 is good. Same on worm, and gear train not forgetting gear wheel bearings.

The tiniest smallest drop of oil on the back bearing of the motor.

 

 

 

[PhilJ W]

I asked about NEM pockets on a Facebook group. Apparently the earlier models were not fitted with NEM pockets. You need to fit a Kaydee 242 draft box if it doesn't have NEM pockets.

[RodneyS]

On 30/06/2021 at 23:30, mikesndbs said:

When I stripped mine down for a service this is what I found.

Thanks, that's a very useful picture.

 

I was a bit wary of undoing the screws holding the DCC board but that partly covers two of the three screws which I assumed holds the cover in place.

Obviously I don't need to worry that bits might fly off never to be seen again.

 

I will have a go and see if a bit of lubrication helps the noise.

Rodney

[PhilJ W]

Just lubricate the gears first before dismantling the locomotive, if that works you've saved yourself the bother. A closer examination of my locomotive reveals that it does have NEM pockets that swivel on a plastic pin, and the wagon is the same. The hole for the plastic pin can be seen in your photograph just below the screw head.

On 30/06/2021 at 18:07, LittleRedTrain said:

 

If the Dapol couplings aren't available I would suggest seeking out a suitable second hand Dapol wagon for the couplings.

[RodneyS]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Just lubricate the gears first before dismantling the locomotive

I have done that and it made very little difference.  Now Mike has shown how to get into the top I'll investigate further.

 

With regard to the couplings, I've had a look at mine which is quite an early one ( MR-003  BR 68184 with early crest ) and the coupling definitely pivots on the screw.  

It would be impossible to remove the screw without some dismantling.

 

Perhaps the plastic pin was a later modification? 

All very interesting but an exploded diagram and parts list such as Bachmann supply would make life easier.

Rodney

 

[RodneyS]

A bit of 'googling' revealed this about converting the Sentinel to P4.

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1493#:~:text= Re%3A Dapol%2FModel Rail Sentinel 1 Remove,stub to rim to provide for... More

 

Going down quite a way I found this :-

 

9. I realised that I had to get the gear housing out to access the screws retaining the Dapol hook and bar couplings. This could have been done earlier but I didn't think of it so at this stage had to remove the wheels again. Deep in the chassis the housing is retained by four clips which each need a good shove against the elasticity of their plastic lugs to release them. Use some force with a thin flat bladed jeweller's scredriver, just sufficient to bend them out of the way before they break - it felt a bit like touch and go. Pull out the housing vertically and then unscrew the couplings from the chassis baseplate. Replace the housing by pressing it down and the clips should recapture it if all is well.

 

This is after the brakes and keeper plate had been removed which was described earlier.

Hmm.  He's obviously a brave man.  I'll just stick to oiling mine.

Rodney

Rodney

[PenrithBeacon]

I used Ultrascale wheelsets for my P4 Sentinel, very good they are too.

[LittleRedTrain]

Thanks everyone for all the tips and suggestions. Eventually I had to admit defeat on this one!

I'd managed to obtain some Dapol couplings, so set about dismantling the loco to fit them!

Unfortunately, to reach the coupling screws I had to remove:
- The brake rigging (which, on my model, was glued into place so impossible to remove without breaking)
- The keeper plate
- The wheels
- The body, weights, DCC socket PCB and motor to get to the top of the chassis.
- The whole gearbox assembly.

I can now see why the previous owner just cut the couplings off!

After all that, I discovered that the couplings I'd purchased still weren't the correct height when fitted!
I'd also managed to break the motor wires off the PCB while taking it all apart, so that would be another annoying soldering job required.

As luck would have it, I came across another one on eBay (unboxed but with all couplings and small parts intact) which I was able to pick up for a reasonable price, so I've made one good model out of the two and the remaining bits will be kept as spares!

[SteveyDee68]

Got myself one of these little beasties for just under £100 on eBay a few days ago, and have been giving it a run for half an hour each direction on the rollers, after applying a little lubrication to the gears. I used some Gaugemaster GM619 oil on the gears, but reading through some earlier posts I have now ordered some PECO Electrolube instead.

 

Will the Gaugemaster oil damage the gears? If so, how should I go about cleaning it off?!

 

If it is fine to leave it, can I oil the gears with Electrolube or do I still need to remove the Gaugemaster oil first? (Do the oils not mix?)

 

Apologies if these are basic questions - I oiled the gears because initially the loco ran like a bag of spanners but the seller did say that it had been in storage for several years and would need lubricating, and so I wasn't unduly worried! I also took the opportunity to clean the wheels with Deluxe Materials Track Magic to make sure they are as clean as possible. Anybody have any further tips to get the excellent running I have been reading about in this thread?

 

Steve S

 

[jwealleans]

Mine has been used extensively on Grantham over the years but became unreliable a couple of shows ago.   Wheel cleaning didn't fix it, so I had to strip it down.   Pickup goes from wheel to motor via the pinpoints, whcih had filled up with crud.  Cleaning the bearings and axle ends has resolved it.

 

I haven't had to lubricate mine at all since I bought it.

[PhilJ W]

12 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Got myself one of these little beasties for just under £100 on eBay a few days ago, and have been giving it a run for half an hour each direction on the rollers, after applying a little lubrication to the gears. I used some Gaugemaster GM619 oil on the gears, but reading through some earlier posts I have now ordered some PECO Electrolube instead.

 

Will the Gaugemaster oil damage the gears? If so, how should I go about cleaning it off?!

 

If it is fine to leave it, can I oil the gears with Electrolube or do I still need to remove the Gaugemaster oil first? (Do the oils not mix?)

 

Apologies if these are basic questions - I oiled the gears because initially the loco ran like a bag of spanners but the seller did say that it had been in storage for several years and would need lubricating, and so I wasn't unduly worried! I also took the opportunity to clean the wheels with Deluxe Materials Track Magic to make sure they are as clean as possible. Anybody have any further tips to get the excellent running I have been reading about in this thread?

 

Steve S

 

Mine is a bit noisy so I've purchased some Gaugemaster GM619 oil to lubricate it. It doesn't have any detrimental effect on the plastics.

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

Mine has been used extensively on Grantham over the years but became unreliable a couple of shows ago.   Wheel cleaning didn't fix it, so I had to strip it down.   Pickup goes from wheel to motor via the pinpoints, whcih had filled up with crud.  Cleaning the bearings and axle ends has resolved it.

 

I haven't had to lubricate mine at all since I bought it.

It is recommended that it be oiled before use. I assume that it is not that difficult then to remove the wheelsets for cleaning.

[stewartingram]

Not wishing to spread rumours, but I'll pass on an experience from a long time ago. 

A change of job profile in the factory that I worked at gave me access to Electrolube, which the firm bought in, in those day probaly direct from the manufacturer, or possibly someone like RS Components. Seeing that it was an electrical conducting oil, I tried it to lubricate some of my models. I can't remember what models now, but I do know that it softened plastic over a period of time. And around that time, Peco introduced a pen, filled with Electrolube. It was a few days after I bought one of those pens that I noticed the softening plastic - my Peco pen was thus never used for oiling models! (Though I did use it on electronic equipment),

Now I don't know if there are different types of Electrolube - is it a brand name that covers multiple variants? I'm not accusing Peco, or Electrolube of wrong deeds here, just passing on my experience. I've always used oils meant for the modelling fraternity since then.

Take care,

Stewart

[Ben Alder]

Would a silicon lubricant work for this?