Steam locos where they shouldn't be.

[melmerby]

Hi all

 

How about the steam locos that were way off patch. Not specials or railtours, just scheduled trains with unusual power, or on unusual route.

 

Examples:

 

SR T9 photographed in early 30's with a train of pre-grouping SR stock heading north through Hatton on the way to Birmingham with an express from the south coast.

The caption said it was an unusual loco for this working (really!)

 

An LNER V2 at Bristol Temple meads on a NE -SW train in BR days. The crew were about to take it further but the western region wouldn't allow it in their territory and sent packing back north!

46235 "City of Birmingham" heading north through Sutton Park station on a Parcels train in the early 60's. Diverted from WCML due to engineering works it travelled via Nuneaton, Whitacre, Coleshill, Walsall and back to the WCML (Coronations were supposedly not allowed on these mainly Midland lines, but who cares!)

 

Following up on 46235, it appeared (at least) twice at Birmingham New street although officially banned, once in 1946 for (re-) naming after being de-streamlined and again in 1954 for a celebration surrounding the anniversary of the station. Anybody know how it got there - was it hauled or did it travel under it's own steam?

 

Any other examples would be appreciated

 

Keith

[Guest Phil]

Re 46235 visiting Birmingham New St - I'm not sure Coronations were actually banned from New St. do you have any evidence of this Keith ?

 

There may have been a ban post electrification maybe, but I'm not sure about any other reason - certainly not weight /axleload related I imagine. Don't forget that although BR imposed somewhat severe restrictions to operations, dependant on circumstances, it was also very happy to provide dispension for special and routine movements. I wish I'd had a pound for every trainlist I produced that required BR 29973 papers to accompany the train.

 

As for Coronations via Nuneaton, Water Orton and Sutton Park, I've seen a small handful of such photos and guess that the workings might have been rare for enthusiasts to witness. One of the most unusual photos I've seen in this vein was a Britannia working a parcels from Walsall towards Bescot tender first. Not sure how far that went, guessing it to be New St or Vauxhall CS.

[melmerby]

Re 46235 visiting Birmingham New St - I'm not sure Coronations were actually banned from New St. do you have any evidence of this Keith ?

 

 

It has been quoted (maybe falsely?) many times that they were banned for clearance reasons (and GWR locos too)

and that was why they did not appear on services such as the Euston expresses.

However when the tunnels were opened up prior to rebuilding of New street and electrification they did become regular performers.

 

Keith

[St. Simon]

An LNER V2 at Bristol Temple meads on a NE -SW train in BR days. The crew were about to take it further but the western region wouldn't allow it in their territory and sent packing back north!

 

Hi,

 

The V2's could also be found on the Southern Region as they were sent there after cracks were found in the wheels of the Merchant Navy's

 

There's a photo of Battle of Britain 4-6-2 No. 34057 'Biggin Hill' arriving at London Liverpool Street on August 16th 1951 in October 2010 issue of the Railway Magazine. The caption says there was a short-lived loan of Bullied Light Pacifics to the Great Eastern Division.

 

Simon

[Rugd1022]

Re 46235 visiting Birmingham New St - I'm not sure Coronations were actually banned from New St. do you have any evidence of this Keith ?

 

There may have been a ban post electrification maybe, but I'm not sure about any other reason - certainly not weight /axleload related I imagine. Don't forget that although BR imposed somewhat severe restrictions to operations, dependant on circumstances, it was also very happy to provide dispension for special and routine movements. I wish I'd had a pound for every trainlist I produced that required BR 29973 papers to accompany the train.

 

As for Coronations via Nuneaton, Water Orton and Sutton Park, I've seen a small handful of such photos and guess that the workings might have been rare for enthusiasts to witness. One of the most unusual photos I've seen in this vein was a Britannia working a parcels from Walsall towards Bescot tender first. Not sure how far that went, guessing it to be New St or Vauxhall CS.

 

Afternoon Phil,

 

Regarding the Brit working tender first - I suppose it could have been turned on the Pleck / Darleston / Bescot triangle but Walsall to New Street isn't really that far (or fast) a journey, so perhaps it didn't matter at the time. Would have been nice to witness it though, and I'm guessing it might have been one of Aston shed's own Britannias, which leads me to think if it was an Aston crew that they wanted to get back home pronto for some reason. As you well know,sometimes it's little dodges like this which make such unusual workings unusual in the first place!

 

Nidge

[John M Upton]

There is the well documented case of B1 class 61313 that hauled a pidgeon special(!) to Eastbourne and promptly broke down. It was towed to Redhill for repairs and then run in for a week on the Redhill to Reading service! Also Eastbourne shed apparently borrowed a visiting London Midland Region Jubilee class loco to fill in on a turn to Haywards Heath and back one day as well.

[DerekEm8]

There's also the Hall (or Grange) arriving eventually at Huddersfield due to non availability of replacemant loco further south.(Nottingham and Sheffield) Did some slight platform damage on its way and was sneaked back via Stockport and Crewe overnight.

[bike2steam]

There is the well documented case of B1 class 61313 that hauled a pidgeon special(!).

 

Yep, remember it well (but dont ask me what I did last Saturday !), but I thought it was a parcels, but still no matter. For it's last couple of years of operation Redhill shed was used for light maintenance of Western section locos, so you could see Merchant Navies there. On one occasion on Redhill shed there was the B1, a Reading Manor, a Guildford Ivatt tank, and a home based N all parked next to one another, and me without a camera .

But the most unusual 'off-limits' loco observations was a J39 in Bristol, off a sugar beet train hauled throughout from Peterborough East, an exLNER K1 at Cardiff Canton, K3 at Gloucester Barnwood (along with an exS&DJR 7F), and to a lesser extent Q1's,S15's & W's at Didcot,a Caprotti Standard 5 at Southampton, Crab at Bournemouth,a Castle at Pompey (later impounded at Fratton), to name but a few.

[Nick Holliday]

The two world wars produced lots of interesting temporary relocations, such as GNR and H&BR locos working on the SECR, whilst LBSCR D1's and LSWR 0415 tanks headed north to work on the Highland. Ex LBSC B4 4-4-0's ended up at York during the second conflict, even having "York" painted on the buffer beam.

Don't forget the dispersion of GW designed pannier tanks to Scotland and Folkstone in BR days.

It might be interesting to speculate what happened when types were allocated to distant locations on the same region, such as the GE B12's or GC/LNER Directors heading to Scotland. Did they go straight there, or were they hijaked like the B1 at Redhill? BTW some B1's worked on the Southern along with the V2's mentioned.

[Edge]

I remember seeing footage of a Q1 and a ex-southern 2-6-0 (N5?) working a train through to Stratford

[melmerby]

I remember seeing footage of a Q1 and a ex-southern 2-6-0 (N5?) working a train through to Stratford

 

Stratford, London or Stratford on A?

 

Keith

[melmerby]

Hi,

 

The V2's could also be found on the Southern Region as they were sent there after cracks were found in the wheels of the Merchant Navy's

 

There's a photo of Battle of Britain 4-6-2 No. 34057 'Biggin Hill' arriving at London Liverpool Street on August 16th 1951 in October 2010 issue of the Railway Magazine. The caption says there was a short-lived loan of Bullied Light Pacifics to the Great Eastern Division.

 

Simon

 

The V2 I mentioned was on one of the York? - SW runs which commonly were B1 hauled. The NE loco was AFAIK usually replaced at Birmingham New St. On this occasion unusually it was a V2 which didn't get changed in Brum and was seemingly set to go all the way to the south west destination until the western region stepped in and stopped it!

 

Keith

[bike2steam]

Stratford, London or Stratford on A?

 

Keith

 

Stratford London, Q1's,S15's, and the occasional N weren't just seen at Stratford (Temple Mills yard & Stratford shed), but also Goodmayes yard where they visited right up to 1964, and boy didn't it wind up the Eastern Region authorities.

But talking of Stratford Upon Avon, exLNER L1's were seen there ( well Town station, S&MJR) on crew training runs from Woodford Halse.

[bike2steam]

The V2 I mentioned was on one of the York? - SW runs which commonly were B1 hauled. The NE loco was AFAIK usually replaced at Birmingham New St. On this occasion unusually it was a V2 which didn't get changed in Brum and was seemingly set to go all the way to the south west destination until the western region stepped in and stopped it!

 

Keith

 

It was quite common, on summer saturdays, for Saltley to run out of locos for loco changing on NE - SW runs, but indeed rare for V2's on these services.Even freights could run thro' without changing, a few instances have seen Wakefield 'colliery circuit' locos (with the large 'O' under the loco cab number) turn up in Bristol.

[Edge]

Stratford, London or Stratford on A?

 

Keith

 

Stratford on Avon. Not sure, but I think they might have been working a railtour

[Bar Side]

There's a photo of Battle of Britain 4-6-2 No. 34057 'Biggin Hill' arriving at London Liverpool Street on August 16th 1951 in October 2010 issue of the Railway Magazine. The caption says there was a short-lived loan of Bullied Light Pacifics to the Great Eastern Division.

 

 

Yep I think it was Biggin Hill and Hurricane that were tried out on the GE mainline ahead of the arrival of the Britannias. Of course the Brits weren't meant to stay - the plan was to bring in the Clans when they were ready. So a Clan was duely run but the GE drivers were not keen to step down for class 7 to class 6 power. There was a plan to transfer V2s to the GE mainline before the Brits were delivered, but I am not sure if any test runs were done.

 

There is a very unusual shot of the W1 in un-rebuilt condition at Ipswich for an open day. Pre war & surely not within the axel loading of the line. Other strangers to the GE region would have come in at the head of holiday specials.

[Bar Side]

Oh and I think some B12s ended up at Aberdeen Ferry Hill due to their light axel loading. I thought I heard of other GE types there too.

[Caledonian]

Oh and I think some B12s ended up at Aberdeen Ferry Hill due to their light axel loading. I thought I heard of other GE types there too.

 

Not quite, it was the LNER shed at Kittybrewster which got them. It was also a planned relocation so they don't really count as being where they shouldn't aughter.

[Bar Side]

Ah, Kittybrewster not Ferry Hill - the one thats now a retail estate. Only wish I could ahve seen some of them in their prime. At least Ferry Hill still has one shed left! Were they used on what is now the royal deeside (Aberdeen - Banchory)? Yes, not strictly speaking in the wrong place as they were allocated there. Just not always an expected combination to see a Stratford built engine in Scotland.

[pH]

A few unusual sightings from steam days at Gourock and Wemyss Bay, at the end of commuter lines from Glasgow:

- Newton Heath Scot 46139

- Wakefield Jubilee 45589

- Patricroft Caprotti Standard Five 73129

- Dundee B1 61292 (at Wemyss Bay)

- Eastfield B1 61197 (not too far from home)

And then there were all the Stanier 5s from English sheds running in after works visits to Glasgow, but the class wasn't unusual, only the shedcodes. However, running-in turns did produce some more exotic visitors, such as K1 62067 from Blyth and Standard Class 4s 75010/12 of Chester.

 

I believe that, for naming ceremonies, some of the Coronation class really did go where they shouldn't have - 46251 'City of Nottingham' as one example.

 

Stratford London, Q1's,S15's, and the occasional N weren't just seen at Stratford (Temple Mills yard & Stratford shed), but also Goodmayes yard where they visited right up to 1964, and boy didn't it wind up the Eastern Region authorities.

With the cross-London freights, locos from one region could be seen in several places on other regions. I wonder how many were 'borrowed' while they were there. I have read of a phone call from Liverpool Street to Stratford which is supposed to have gone something like this: " That engine you've just sent us for the xxxxx - get it back out of here! You know eight-coupled engines aren't allowed in here. And aren't engine numbers supposed to have five figures?". No more details were given, unfortunately.

[stewartingram]

Yep I think it was Biggin Hill and Hurricane that were tried out on the GE mainline ahead of the arrival of the Britannias. Of course the Brits weren't meant to stay - the plan was to bring in the Clans when they were ready. So a Clan was duely run but the GE drivers were not keen to step down for class 7 to class 6 power. There was a plan to transfer V2s to the GE mainline before the Brits were delivered, but I am not sure if any test runs were done.

 

There is a very unusual shot of the W1 in un-rebuilt condition at Ipswich for an open day. Pre war & surely not within the axel loading of the line. Other strangers to the GE region would have come in at the head of holiday specials.

 

Soon after the Brits arrived on the GE section, they were withdrawn for mods. I can't remember now whether it was driving axle failure, or loco/tender drawbar uncoupling. So for a while some (3?) BB's were allocated to the GE to replace them. 34057 was 1 of them.

72009 appeared at Stratford much later, the big plan was to allocate some there. However the locals didn't want to downgrade from the Brits (which were a big improvement on B12's etc that they replaced) so it was quickly sent packing.

[Caledonian]

Ah, Kittybrewster not Ferry Hill - the one thats now a retail estate. Only wish I could ahve seen some of them in their prime. At least Ferry Hill still has one shed left! Were they used on what is now the royal deeside (Aberdeen - Banchory)? Yes, not strictly speaking in the wrong place as they were allocated there. Just not always an expected combination to see a Stratford built engine in Scotland.

 

They probably worked up there from time to time, but were mainly used on the line out to Elgin and up Speyside; there were also a couple allocated to Elgin and/or Keith shed. After the war they were gradually replaced by B1s.

[Kris]

There was the exchange in 1925 between the GWR and LNER which saw a castle (Pendenis Castle) running out of Kingscross and an A3 (4474 - apparently not named) from Paddington to the West Country.

 

1948 also saw similar trials involving many more classes of locos across all regions of the uk.

 

edit - A3 Number corrected

[The Stationmaster]

There was the exchange in 1925 between the GWR and LNER which saw a castle (Pendenis Castle) running out of Kingscross and an A3 (4472 - apparently not named) from Paddington to the West Country.

 

1948 also saw similar trials involving many more classes of locos across all regions of the uk.

 

 

The LNER pacific involved was an A1, 4474 (later named 'Victor Wild') - somewhere I have got a copy of the working notice for its initial run to Plymouth.

[Kris]

Thanks Mike - Number corrected on the original post.