Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

At the recent Peterborough show I saw a rather neat looking Turntable (possibly on the Sutton layout?). I was expecting it to be scratchbuilt by someone who knew what they were doing, however I was surprised to learn it was from a Peco kit. Apart from the obvious contact springs beneath the rails on the deck, along with numerous oblong slots next to the rails along the deck (maybe something to do with how the rails are secured?) it looked amazingly good I thought. Has anyone any experiences of this kit, and also is it of a particular prototype or just a "generic" turntable? Any comments much appreciated please!!

 

Many thanks.

Brian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brian

 

I have just built and installed the Peco LK-55 turntable and I am well pleased with it. I have replaced the supplied safety railing on the deck with wire as the plastic mouldings are overscale (ie too thick)and motorised it with the Expo motor and gearbox (£12). This is direct drive and when driven with approx 2 volts gives a nice slow turn. An advantage of its design is that it reverses track polarity as it turns so works with DCC without modification.

According to the Peco instruction sheet it is based on one at Yeovil which was a Ransom & Rapier well type turntable as supplied to many of the railway regions. However on another forum this has been disputed as incorrect. Regardless I like the way it turned out for my layout - see below,

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b430/ozlabrador/IMG_0367.jpg

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b430/ozlabrador/IMG_0366.jpg

 

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Keith,

 

Many thanks for replying, and for taking the time to take piccies too :D.

Can you tell me more about the rectangular slots in the table please - are they used to secure the rails in some way?

 

Best Regards,

Brian

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

As stated above it is based on a Ransom & Rapier well type I can not off the top of my head recal the one at Yeovil but it definately simialr to the one from Southampton Docks which is now at Didcot.

 

I used the gearbox and drive from Frizinghall models (which I think is the same as the Expo version) this is best mounted below the well on a cross member and not directly to the well itsself as if you do that the noise is amplified by the well like a drum skin.

 

I used the Peco well and deck components and scratch build heavy undergirder sides and turners platform to represent the type initally installed at Salisbury MPD.

 

Its is a well thought out kit electrically and easy to assemble and wire up, the automatic polarity changing is good and means wiht the track configuration I use even on DC conrtrol I dont have to change to polarity of the deck at all via another switch.

 

(pictures below with permission of Hornby Magazine and Chris Nevard)

 

post-243-025892000 1288122582_thumb.jpg

post-243-096138100 1288122571_thumb.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The crucial aspect of assembly is to ensure that the well is made up as a right cylinder. If any of the three well sections is distorted, make a claim on Peco for a replacement. If motorising it, best practise is to mount the motor on a subframe, structurally independent of the turntable. There was a good kit of suitable motorising parts available from Maplins a few years ago: I think it was the 4044 'Como' 12V motor and gearbox, combined with a seperate worm and pinion from the same source to transfer the drive to the turntable spindle the total cost was about £12. Had one in use for several years, completely reliable, very pleased with it. I have thoughts of putting a lock on it to maintain alignement, but careful operation, lining up by eye enables trouble free moves on and off the table.

 

It is similar in appearance to a turntable probably used by the LMS, as I remember Camden shed having one very like this pattern, in LMR days. Detail improvements such as the finer handrails mentioned above, adding a hand cranking station at one end of the bridge, vacuum tractor unit, reserve vacuum tanks and the vac pipe stanchion and connecting hose, can only improve the model.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

With pedantic 'at on & nit-picker plugged in :D .

For 'Yeovil', please read 'Yeovil Junction', not 'Yeovil Town' or Yeovil Pen Mill'.('at off & un-plugged)

 

The Junction's 70ft..turntable still exists, and is cared for by the team at the Yeovil Railway Centre

http://www.yeovilrai...com/index1.html

 

The turntable, http://en.wikipedia...._Railway_Centre is very similar to the ex-Southampton New Docks one preserved at the Didcot Railway Centre.

http://www.didcotrai....html#turntable

One thing that strikes me. is that both wells appear to be less deep than that depicted by Peco's model.

I seem to remember the 65ft. Ransom & Rapier turntable at Bournemouth MPD being slightly deeper, but not as deep as my old Peco kit, which is nigh on a scale 6ft..??. Maybe this is one of the reasons behind the debate / dispute over the origins of the prototype ?.

After seeing Keith's (ozthedog's) superb model :good_mini: , it makes me raise the question , have Peco altered their depth ? or have you modified it yourself ozthedog ?, because your turntable looks decidedly shallower than mine !.

 

Regards.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The PECO turntable is designed as an undergirder turntable hence needing a pit to accommodate the bridge girders below rail level. The GWR style of overgirder bridge with the girders above rail level is specifically designed to need only a very shallow pit. Saves money on the pit but the bridge costs more. As so often the case the GWR did its sums differently from 'most everyone else. :mellow:

What Graham_Muz has built is a sort of cross between the two, but I have no idea what was at Southampton docks to compare it with.

However, both the turntable at Didcot and that at Yeovil in the references above are clearly undergirder tables as there is no girder above rail level.

The depth of the pits depends on the span of the girders forming the bridge and there are assentially two possibilities, a single span hence 70ft for a 70ft table, or two spans supported at the ends and the centre, hence 35ft for a 70ft table. The two pictured are, I think, of this last type and hence the pit is roughly half the depth that would be needed for the first type.

Regards

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian

 

"Can you tell me more about the rectangular slots in the table please - are they used to secure the rails in some way?"

I think you mean the black drainage grate inthe well bottom. These are non-functional and supplied as part of the kit.

 

Graham

 

The Frizzinghall and Expo drives are different. The Frizzinghall is a fixed ratio gear and worm drive

Frizzinghall drive

whereas the Expo is a direct drive to the turntable via a gearbox that can have the gear ratios changed

Expo product code 262-12 Expo tools

 

I mounted the Expo by fitting the drive shaft to the turntable, fixing the well in the baseboard then anchoring the gearbox to a strut of 2x1 running accross the baseboard and off centre of the well.

 

Ceptic

 

My turntable well depth is unmodified so it is the standard depth as supplied by the current kit.

 

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian

 

"Can you tell me more about the rectangular slots in the table please - are they used to secure the rails in some way?"

I think you mean the black drainage grate inthe well bottom. These are non-functional and supplied as part of the kit.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

Hi all,

 

No - the table I saw (by which I mean the actual table that the loco stands on, i.e. the bit that turns) had oblong slots (maybe 5mm long by 2mm wide?) directly next to each rail on the table - perhaps half a dozen or more along the length of each rail. Maybe the latest kits don't have these slots?

 

Also, is the turntable capable of taking the largest locos (i.e. a scale 72 feet - or is it 75 feet?).

Many thanks.

Brian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

No - the table I saw (by which I mean the actual table that the loco stands on, i.e. the bit that turns) had oblong slots (maybe 5mm long by 2mm wide?) directly next to each rail on the table - perhaps half a dozen or more along the length of each rail. Maybe the latest kits don't have these slots?

 

Also, is the turntable capable of taking the largest locos (i.e. a scale 72 feet - or is it 75 feet?).

Many thanks.

Brian

 

 

 

Hi Brian.

As you have observed, and, as far as I can make out, and, without taking mine apart, they are there to provide clearance for the clips that secure the rails in place, and to provide power to such.

On mine, the openings are circular, diagonally opposed, about the central pivot. But, none the less, doing the same job.

If you can, post in a pic, to show us, excactly, what you are looking at. :good_mini:

 

Regards

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brian.

As you have observed, and, as far as I can make out, and, without taking mine apart, they are there to provide clearance for the clips that secure the rails in place, and to provide power to such.

On mine, the openings are circular, diagonally opposed, about the central pivot. But, none the less, doing the same job.

If you can, post in a pic, to show us, excactly, what you are looking at. :good_mini:

 

Regards

 

Thanks for the reply; unfortunately I don't have a photo since it was a turntable I saw at the Peterborough show - and I didn't take my camera :(

I remember two circular holes also, fitted with springs - are these the ones you are referring to by any chance?

 

Brian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brian

 

Have a look at this close up of the deck.

 

Turntable-3.jpg

 

The circular holes house brass springs that provide power to the rails are labelled A

 

B are the clips that hold the rail in place.

 

Don't think there are any open slots apart from the two that run the length of the deck for the rails to fit into.

 

Ignore the dust everywhere - thats from a hole I just cut in the baseboard for a nearby point motor.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brian

 

Have a look at this close up of the deck.

 

Turntable-3.jpg

 

The circular holes house brass springs that provide power to the rails are labelled A

 

B are the clips that hold the rail in place.

 

Don't think there are any open slots apart from the two that run the length of the deck for the rails to fit into.

 

Ignore the dust everywhere - thats from a hole I just cut in the baseboard for a nearby point motor.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Keith

 

You've cracked it Keith! The B "slots" are actually clips! From the viewing angle I had these clips actually looked like slots (in fact in the photo above they look like slots on the left rail but clips on the right rail, so hopefully I'm not a complete idiot...).

 

Does the deck come pre-assembled with rails fitted? I'm thinking about possibly disguising these clips and springs in some way (the springs in particular look out of place I think - I'd like to remove them completely and make hidded electrical connections).

 

Brian

Link to post
Share on other sites

You've cracked it Keith! The B "slots" are actually clips! From the viewing angle I had these clips actually looked like slots (in fact in the photo above they look like slots on the left rail but clips on the right rail, so hopefully I'm not a complete idiot...).

 

Does the deck come pre-assembled with rails fitted? I'm thinking about possibly disguising these clips and springs in some way (the springs in particular look out of place I think - I'd like to remove them completely and make hidded electrical connections).

 

Brian

 

Its the shadow effect that makes the clips look like slots in the photo. I usually weather my rails with rusty grime. When this is done to those on the turntable I think the clips will be virtually un-noticeable. The rails are supplied separately so you can slide them in after painting the deck.

 

The springs have two functions. They exert downward pressure to push contacts against two stationary semicircular copper rings that are connected to the power supply under the turntable. They then transfer power to the rails. Whatever you do to disguise them you will have to maintain electrical conductivity. It is actually a very neat & simple system for maintaining correct rail polarity. I think its a pretty good kit for £35 plus £12 for a motor.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites
is the turntable capable of taking the largest locos (i.e. a scale 72 feet - or is it 75 feet?).

 

The rails on the deck are 30.3 cm long. So a wheelbase of up to 75 feet can be accommodated. The actual maximum loco length depends, of course, on whether there are any obstructions near the turntable which would interfere with overhanging bits!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all.......

snip....

Also, is the turntable capable of taking the largest locos (i.e. a scale 72 feet - or is it 75 feet?).

Many thanks.

Brian

 

 

Hi Brian.

 

The largest / longest R.T.R. model 'OO' guage steam locos available(?), over the counter(?), at the moment, are :-

 

Hornby's. L.M.S /.B.R. M.Reg. Stanier 'Princess Royal' class.(Prototype, over the buffers length = 74 ft. - 4.25 ins).

 

For other British railways / regions, the 'going down in size' list is :-

 

Bachmann's L.N.ER, / B.R. E & NE Reg. Peppercorn 'A2' class.

 

Hornby's B.R. S.Reg. re-built Bulleid 'Merchant Navy' class.

 

Hornby's (Currently un-available) G.W.R. / B.R. W. Reg. Collett 'King' class.

 

Bachmann's & Hornby's (Railroad) B.R. Riddles Std. Class 9F

.

I would say that Peco's turntable is capable of handling any of these.

I can give you the prototype's over buffers length, but not that of all the relavent models.

 

I hope this helps.......Pics of my Peco turntable to follow.

.

Regards

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

The PECO turntable is designed as an undergirder turntable hence needing a pit to accommodate the bridge girders below rail level. The GWR style of overgirder bridge with the girders above rail level is specifically designed to need only a very shallow pit. Saves money on the pit but the bridge costs more. As so often the case the GWR did its sums differently from 'most everyone else. :mellow:

What Graham_Muz has built is a sort of cross between the two, but I have no idea what was at Southampton docks to compare it with.

 

 

Hi Keith

 

Yes it is a little bit of a compromise but for Fisherton Sarum I wanted something that was closer to the one at Salisbury (pictures curtesy of George Reeve of the Irwell Press and not for reposting)

 

post-243-060748300 1288292673_thumb.jpg

post-243-006764300 1288292678_thumb.jpg

post-243-045337000 1288292682_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian

 

"Can you tell me more about the rectangular slots in the table please - are they used to secure the rails in some way?"

I think you mean the black drainage grate inthe well bottom. These are non-functional and supplied as part of the kit.

 

Graham

 

The Frizzinghall and Expo drives are different. The Frizzinghall is a fixed ratio gear and worm drive

Frizzinghall drive

whereas the Expo is a direct drive to the turntable via a gearbox that can have the gear ratios changed

Expo product code 262-12 Expo tools

 

I mounted the Expo by fitting the drive shaft to the turntable, fixing the well in the baseboard then anchoring the gearbox to a strut of 2x1 running accross the baseboard and off centre of the well.

 

Ceptic

 

My turntable well depth is unmodified so it is the standard depth as supplied by the current kit.

 

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

Thanks for the info' Keith, especially the motor / drive set up. :good_mini:

Now, The question of the kit's depth ?. Have a look at this one of mine, and compare it.with yours

post-7009-072918500 1288351626_thumb.jpg

 

Keith's Peco lastest version.

http://i1042.photobu...or/IMG_0367.jpg

 

As you can see, there seems to be a distinct difference in the well's depth, and the number of drains.

Mine was bought several years ago, second hand, without any intructions :scratch_one-s_head_mini: .

I've added to the pic,. the modifications I intend to get around to doing (at some future date).

 

Cheers, Frank.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Graham

 

The Frizzinghall and Expo drives are different. The Frizzinghall is a fixed ratio gear and worm drive

Frizzinghall drive

whereas the Expo is a direct drive to the turntable via a gearbox that can have the gear ratios changed

Expo product code 262-12 Expo tools

 

 

Kieth

 

The Frizinghall motorising kit that I used also has a gearbox in which that ratios can be chanegd, by removal and additon of gears, and this gearbox (transparent case with yellow gear wheels) can be just made out in the pictures on the link to their site that you provided.

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/10116-table-a-la-carte/page__view__findpost__p__88907__fromsearch__1

I despair somewhat on some of the comments re turntables, Having experience going back some 30 years. There is no way that you can get an accurate stopping turntable by a worm/reduction gear drive on the centre spindle of a t/t. there is just to much backlash in the mechanism.I tried doing this some 30 years ago and it did not work.!. I have also used the Como reduction box, If you are happy with a noisy piece of kit, carry on. Suitable inexpensive geared motor reduction drive units can be found at 'Technobots' website. Likewise forget about having the T/T rotate on its outer wheels , this was true in reality, but not practical in model terms, they need to be for show only without contact. One good/easy suggestion I have come across is to use a bike wheel hub for the centre pivot. Especially if you can get the sports type with the larger flanges, this can be easily adapted and adjusted with the bearing cones to minimize any play, otherwise the bridge will rock along its length causing vertical misalignment with the fixed tracks. I hope the link to my old post is Ok. be assured this works, it stops on less than the diameter of a paper clip wire, at each position, rotating in either direction. I recently broke up 2 old VCR.s these both had most useful motor worm drive units for the cassette loading system and will run almost silently on around 3-5 volts. It may be necessary to cut these out from the chassis but well worth it. I have just replaced a Como unit with one of these to operate the gate across the private Brewery siding on my layout, just to get rid of the Noise of the screaming gears. Please have a look at my post,I hope that my failures in the past may help you to succeed to achieve your turntable. Good Luck Beeman.I have I hope managed to post some current pics of my T/T.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree about using a cycle wheel hub as a bearing. I remember reading about using one in an old library book sometime in the 60s.

 

 

 

This was a project that never got finished. I used the piece cut out for the well as the drive wheel which I was going to index but after a bit of playing around it never progressed any further.

 

post-775-0-95349700-1511171580.jpg

 

post-775-0-56030900-1511171592_thumb.jpg

 

 

Edited to replace defunct photobucket pics.

Edited by Free At Last
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree about using a cycle wheel hub as a bearing. I remember reading about using one in an old library book sometime in the 60s.

 

This was a project that never got finished. I used the piece cut out for the well as the drive wheel which I was going to index but after a bit of playing around it never progressed any further.

TT2.jpg

 

TT4.jpg

 

I like the steps leading down into the well. I can't remember seeing that modelled before, or on a prototype, come to that. Where, or what, gave you the inspiration ?

Also, the depth of the well looks a lot more prototypical

 

Cheers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the steps leading down into the well. I can't remember seeing that modelled before, or on a prototype, come to that. Where, or what, gave you the inspiration ?

Also, the depth of the well looks a lot more prototypical

 

Cheers.

 

If you mena the gap in the edge of the walling its a pitt so you can swing round the turntable faces to service them without the need to lift the whole table

Link to post
Share on other sites

In view of the comments by Beeman above I thought I would post the following video even though the installation is not complete. I don't think despair is quite required as you can see from the video that the standard Peco turntable with no added bearings and driven by the Expo motor mounted via its gearbox directly onto the spindle gives a quiet, slow turn which easily allows the exit tracks to be lined up. Also the wheels do turn as the turntable actually runs on them. As for backlash I don't think I can detect any or if its there its not a problem.

If it works why make it complicated.

Note that sound was recorded - if you listen carefully about halfway through you can here the click as the electrical contacts under the deck switch over.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T967RCaO_Ng

 

Ceptic - I think the depth of your well is the same as mine. Look at the wheel height in relation to the top of the well. There are 3 drains on mine.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a project that never got finished. I used the piece cut out for the well as the drive wheel which I was going to index but after a bit of playing around it never progressed any further.

 

 

That's interesting.

About 30 years ago I made an automatic turntable with 10 roads using an indexing disc. The turntable kit was the Airfix type (now Dapol) .

 

I used a gearbox out of a piece of scrap machinery which had a 4mm output shaft and driven by the motor out of a tape recorder. I fixed a spare gear under the deck to use as a drive bush.

 

On the index disc was a round PCB with patches missing where each stopping point was and with 10 phosphor bronze wipers making contact. Using a PO 3000 type relay with an extension arm and large "tooth" affixed to locate each notch I could go to any track with perfect location by operating a 10 way switch. The only drawback it always turned in one direction.

 

I have just assembled a Peco turntable with one of these multi ratio gearboxes and am going through the same process although I intend this time to make it operate off DCC using function decoder(s) and the components I am using are a little different.

 

NB to keep the Peco well flat mount it on a circle of Ply or MDF 10-12mm thick using screws through where the drainage grills are.

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.