Kadee Couplers

[melmerby]

12 hours ago, ISW said:

If you mean the ones you sometimes get on Bachmann locos, then I don't think so. The dovetail is much 'shorter' in length.

 

My shoes are fine thanks. I guess you'd mean a 'mash-up' of a Kadee #18 (with the NEM legs cut-off) and the ViTrains coupler (with the tension lock bit cut off), with some 'glue'?

 

Surely someone 'must' have done this before ...

 

Ian

 

No

I was on about using a standard pocket complete with it's dovetail, but the "box" cut down in length and a #17, also cut down in length,  then glued together instead of plugging together.

It would reduce the total length considerably.

[ISW]

17 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

March 2019 was when this was last discussed and I think you will find most of what you are looking for in the first quote above.  I used to flash up and down the M40 quite regularly in those days and I got the "bit" to convert the coupler head from a model shop in Brackley on one of those journeys (sorry, can't remember their name); the "universal cranked bit" that converts NEM 362 to 363 came from Gaugemaster.

Elliot,

 

I managed to find the posting by Richard (47137) and I see now how the NEM363 / AMF87 can solve the problem. However, I can't find either for sale anywhere. The link to A & H models doesn't work anymore, and a search of their site didn't find it either. I could buy some more Roco 40287 couplers to 'butcher' but they're a tad expensive just to cut up.

 

However, all is not lost as I now understand the adapter and I'll just have to make one out of a piece of styrene. I mean, how hard can it be? [(c) TopGear]

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Ian

[ISW]

12 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

It has - a web search or search of this forum might bring it up  = you either trim the shank of a NEM Kadee or buy a conversion part to fit the NEM Kadee knuckle. The Vi Trains mount is a NEM 363 (or near enough) .

Brilliant!

 

If I'm understanding correctly, just re-shape the 'swallow tail' of the Kadee #17/#18/#19 into the shape of the NEM363 (dovetail) to suit the ViTrains pocket. Why didn't I think of that? (answers in invisible ink on a wet paper towel ...).

 

Ian

[47137]

The adaptors I bought from A&H Models of Brackley originally came from AMF 87 of Wavrin (northern France). The adaptors are still on their web site, they come in a pack of four:

 

https://www.amf87.fr/prestashop/attelages/917-a265-interface-d-attelages-nem363-kadee-4000000012078.html?search_query=Kadee&results=2

 

However, if filing down and reshaping the prongs on a Kadee #17 works then go for it!

 

- Richard.

[ISW]

3 hours ago, 47137 said:

The adaptors I bought from A&H Models of Brackley originally came from AMF 87 of Wavrin (northern France). The adaptors are still on their web site, they come in a pack of four:

Richard,

 

Well found that man. My Google search for AMF87 came up empty, so I guess the " " was important.

 

If the modification of Kadee #18 doesn't work, I'll know what Plan B is.

 

Ian

[Matt]

i've tried to solve this problem for my Vi 37s.  As others have said you can file an NEM Kadee - i found this harder than it sounds to get right.  I did get a few to work but several wanted to twist in their sockets rather than stay square. I ended up wasting quite a few NEM Kadees in process... luckily they were cheaper then!

 

An alternative solution i found was to abandon the NEM socket altogether and mount Kadees in draft boxes direct onto the bogies. There is a nice recess at right height on the 37 to take this and it works pretty well.  Only thing to watch is not to flood the area with superglue as it can find its way into the gearbox of the loco.... no prizes for guessing how i know....

[ISW]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

An alternative solution i found was to abandon the NEM socket altogether and mount Kadees in draft boxes direct onto the bogies. There is a nice recess at right height on the 37 to take this and it works pretty well.  Only thing to watch is not to flood the area with superglue as it can find its way into the gearbox of the loco.... no prizes for guessing how i know....

Matt,

 

Thanks for the alternative, and the 'warning'. Do you have a photo you could post of the completed installation?

 

Ian

[Jeff Smith]

Another alternative could be to fit the Kadee gear box to the buffer beam.  US On30 and HO bogie stock (which use the same coupling height) have the couplings attached to the body not the bogies.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Another alternative could be to fit the Kadee gear box to the buffer beam.  US On30 and HO bogie stock (which use the same coupling height) have the couplings attached to the body not the bogies.

A big difference is buffers, which can be a problem with bogie stock and body mounts when going through reverse curves.

[ISW]

2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Another alternative could be to fit the Kadee gear box to the buffer beam.

Jeff,

 

Unfortunately it's not an alternative on a ViTrains Class 37. There's no 'depth' to attached the draft box to on the bufferbeam. 

 

Ian

[roythebus1]

On 02/03/2021 at 18:17, Jeff Smith said:

I doubt that the NEM type are the most popular in Kadee's overall range.....maybe the lower quantity production is what has increased the price!

I'd suggest the Kadee NEM couplings have quite a huge demand in Europe. Another of the B word bonuses for the disUnited Kingdom!

 

[roythebus1]

For the of you trying to fit Kadees to the wrong height Baccy boxes, I use the round edge of a hot soldering iron tip to bend a Z shape on the Kadee coupling tail. first upwards, then a second bit downwards. Just make sure you don't twist the tail out of line with the coupler head.

 

[s182ggu]

9 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

For the of you trying to fit Kadees to the wrong height Baccy boxes, I use the round edge of a hot soldering iron tip to bend a Z shape on the Kadee coupling tail. first upwards, then a second bit downwards. Just make sure you don't twist the tail out of line with the coupler head.

 

If possible, a picture would be helpful, please?

[mattrose]

Good Morning,

 

I am looking to switch most of my wagons and coaches to Kadee's leaving the locos and end stock on tensionlocks till I'm ready to do all locos.

 

Which length would people recommend for Dapol IOAs and JNAs?

 

Also, what is the aim of the standalone height gauge?

 

Thanks.

[Il Grifone]

The Kadee height gauge is to ensure that all the couplings are are at the same (and correct) height. It also ensures the trip pin is set at the right height (1/32" above the rail). These settings are based on the prototype US coupler height in H0 scale (and are the same as the settings for the Peco Simplex couplings and the coupling bar for tension locks.

I thought I could manage without until I acquired one!

 

Knuckle couplings (of any type) are not really compatible with buffers. Their use requires either an overscale inter-vehicle distance or short buffers (or both).

Edited June 30, 2021 by Il Grifone

[mattrose]

26 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

The Kadee height gauge is to ensure that all the couplings are are at the same (and correct) height. It also ensures the trip pin is set at the right height (1/32" above the rail). These settings are based on the prototype US coupler height in H0 scale (and are the same as the settings for the Peco Simplex couplings and the coupling bar for tension locks.

I thought I could manage without until I acquired one!

 

Knuckle couplings (of any type) are not really compatible with buffers. Their use requires either an overscale inter-vehicle distance or short buffers (or both).

 

How does the kadee height gauge work? Isn't it just fixed in one position and if the wagon has a NEM pocket that will be a set height as well?

 

Or can you get different height NEM pocket couplers?

 

Thanks.

[PaulRhB]

41 minutes ago, mattrose said:

 

How does the kadee height gauge work? Isn't it just fixed in one position and if the wagon has a NEM pocket that will be a set height as well?

 

Or can you get different height NEM pocket couplers?

 

Thanks.

The height gauge is designed to be a standard height for the coupler at the front and to set the trip pin clearance. 
Third photo down on this site shows it in use to check coupler and trip pin heights

 

https://www.cvmrc.co.uk/Hornby-coupling-conversion.html

 

The rear block is set at the top of the mounting box height for the number 5 or 58 couplers if body mounting them. There isn’t a corresponding kadee NEM box though so you have to work that out from the knuckle height. 

[PaulRhB]

46 minutes ago, mattrose said:

NEM pocket that will be a set height as well?

They are now but there were inconsistencies in certain models that first had them so generally now most stock from the last five years or so already is the right height and the nem couplers just plug in. The height gauge is still useful though for setting the trip pin height If using track mounted magnets to uncouple. 

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

The height gauge is still useful though for setting the trip pin height If using track mounted magnets to uncouple. 

And for checking or adjusting droop on Dapol and Heljan.  I have a supply of thin evergreen strip for adjusting upwards. 
Paul. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by 5BarVT
Speeling

[Jeff Smith]

Rather than glue the NEM coupler to the vehicle I would favour using the Whisker couplers.  Glue the Whisker gearbox to the vehicle so that different length and height couplers can be installed just by popping the lid on and off.  Although the NEM couplers come in four different lengths there's no height adjustment possible.  The Whiskers come in three lengths and three heights.  The Whiskers have more side to side movement too as the pivot arm is longer.

[melmerby]

10 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

And for checking or adjusting droop on Dapol and Heljan.  I have a supply of thin evergreen strip for adjusting upwards. 
Paul. 

Don't use the Dapol mounts, a poor design with too much slop.

[melmerby]

15 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

For the of you trying to fit Kadees to the wrong height Baccy boxes, I use the round edge of a hot soldering iron tip to bend a Z shape on the Kadee coupling tail. first upwards, then a second bit downwards. Just make sure you don't twist the tail out of line with the coupler head.

 

Just chop them off and use a 14x series coupler/draft box.

[melmerby]

16 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I'd suggest the Kadee NEM couplings have quite a huge demand in Europe. Another of the B word bonuses for the disUnited Kingdom!

 

Europe?

Probably more in the UK due to the ubiquitous Tension Lock, which doesn't appear much in Europe, which seems to have better solutions.

[Dunsignalling]

I've never particularly liked the NEM fitting Kadees, except as part of a close-coupling linkage, and then only at the ends of sets. The two pivots are too close together for my liking, and I consider their appearance somewhat "clunky".

 

Unless you anticipate wanting to return your models to as-bought spec, the ones in boxes (currently the #146 is the prime choice for stock with buffers) make for a much neater job and, IMHO, work better. 

 

I strongly recommend getting the #246 Tap & Drill set, which makes a neat and robust job so much easier. You can use Kadee's own nylon screws (#256) or M2 metal ones as you prefer. If tapping into plastic, the two threads are close enough for it not to matter.

 

Photos attached of one of the new Oxford Rail tank wagons, minus TL coupler and NEM mount and plus a #146 whisker coupler on one end. Time taken, five minutes.

 

Note the increased daylight under the end of the wagon.

 

John

Edited June 30, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[BR60103]

The height gauge is vital as many UK-NEM coupling mounts are sloppy. The hole in the box may be a a little large or the screw mount may need reinforcing.  It is also needed if you decide to use one of the other mountings.

 

If you use the height gauge, bring the vehicle up to the gauge and watch from the side. Make sure the coupling heights match before the pin comes on to the platform. A sagging coupling can be lifted to correct height by the pin on the platform, or the pin may strike the gauge inspiring the modeller to bend the pin sharper when it is not the proper cure.

The N gauge version of the gauge has a separate metal strip for the pin. (Or it did 40 years ago.)

 

The distance of the knuckle out from the buffer beam or buffers will be affected by the minimum radius.

 

I've noted before: Prototype American couplers are lower than buffer beams. When we toured the GM factory making EWS locos, they had a contraption that bolted on in place o the buffers that held a coupling lower than the buffer beam for road teasting. It's not just a difference between OO and HO.