Dynamis v power cab

[pharro]

Hi good people I have an n guage layout and will run about 2-4 at once and I am currently using a dynamis controler.

 

I went to spalding model rail show and had a look at the power cab and I was quite impressed with it.

 

So I want to open a discussion which is better out of the 2 and is it worth doing a swap. The dynamis dosnt work that well on my layout as I sit in the middle. I have never been the impressed with the dynamis infered anyway.

 

Thanks for looking.

[Danemouth]

Just bought a Powercab - very impressed - have no experience of the Dynamis so I can't help. One thing worth remembering is that the Powercab can be utilised with the bigger NCE systems thereby protecting your investment.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[HLT 0109]

Pharro,

 

I have had a Powercab and Procab on a 00 layout for about six months and am very impressed. Like you, I operate from the middle and the long, coiled cable means I can wander quite far. As the controllers are "T" shaped, I have been able to hang mine from the roof beams (the layout is in the loft) on a made-up bracket so it is possible to operate hands-free if necessary without the controller taking up any layout space. More importantly, operation is very precise and responsive.

 

Harold.

[TheDukeOfWellingtons]

I'm in the same boat, my Dynamis suffers from poor signal strength sometimes even though my layout is only 12' long and I find myself having to point the handset directly at the base station at close range, meaning I am not getting any benefit from the 'wireless' feature. When money permits I will get a Powercab. I have considered getting a pro box and an extra infrared sensor but decided the money would be better spent on the NCE. Other than the signal strength I have been pleased with the Dynamis overall, particularly the function controls and the joystick operation but I think its time for an upgrade.

[Chris71]

I have both systems Nce power cab for my 00 gauge layout and bought the dynamis system for an n gauge layout, the nce one is better in my view and many others who have tried them.

You can run 2 to 3 locos max with the starter cab as the system only gives you 1.2 amps, unless you buy the booster box for more amps.

 

The handset feels natural with the thumb wheel and easy enough lcd screen with clear letters and numbers for viewing wich i find a bit awkward on the dynamis screen, saying that you can name your loco and icon on the dynamis display but only loco number on the nce cab,nice little feature.

 

You will get better infared reception if you buy the dynamis pro box to boost its power and you can pick up addtional reciver as well to improve your signals.

Also once you have the dynamis pro box youl be able to read cv's on it as well then.

Id give the nce cab 10/10 for pratical use and features but also very expandable , but you are still connected to the board by the handset lead.

 

Id give the dynamis 8/10 but thats without the pro box. it only took me about 20 minutes flicking through the small manual and very easy to pick up were my nce manual is a lot bigger but still easy enough to use.

 

A lot of people moan about the signal loss but id changed the setting on the dynamis so if it loses the infared signal the locos still keep going, were default settings would stop the locos after 30 seconds, but you can change the lengh of time or the power to the track stays on like i have.

For the price of the dynamis around £80 upwards its not a bad system and you get 2.5 amps more than the nce starter cab 1.2 amp.

But if i had to choose between them id keep NCE CAB.

[Ron Ron Ron]

It's not always quite so straightforward to compare budget systems when they are presented in such different form factors, have different features, are at different price points and (possibly more significantly) are a product of different design or marketing approaches by their respective manufacturers.

This applies not only to a comparison between the Dynamis and the PowerCab, but to any comparison between the 5 most common systems aimed at the budget or starter market (Elite, PowerCab, Dynamis, MultiMaus, Zephyr). Those 5 systems are all quite different in so many ways.

 

Examples of the differences...

 

Form Factor -

2 are console systems, 2 use tethered (corded) handsets (throttles) and one uses a wireless (IR) gamepad style handset.

While those differences may not matter to some, or are less important than other considerations when choosing a system, other people may prefer one style over another because it suits their particular needs, or they feel more comfortable or familiar with it.

 

Price Points -

The Dynamis is now almost (but not quite) half the price of the Elite, PowerCab and Zephyr at typical on-line shop prices.

The MultiMaus is not generally available from UK retailers, except from suppliers of Roco, where it can be very expensive when bought in a train-set at UK prices. On the other hand, buying new split from a train-set (usually from a continental supplier via eBay) it can be had for anything between £60 and £90. If bought as part of a Roco train-set that's actually wanted for the models, then it's an absolute bargain (at continental prices - notwithstanding the current awful exchange rate).

The Zephyr needs a power supply, pushing up the cost to make it the most expensive system.

Add a Pro Box to a Dynamis, or a SmartBooster to a PowerCab and the equations are skewed again.

 

Feature set and functionality differences -

Too many for me list at the time of writing this post.

 

Marketing -

3 of the systems come from model train manufacturers, 2 from specialist DCC manufacturers.

2 of the 3 from the model companies are designed/built by DCC manufacturers (MultiMaus by Lenz, Dynamis by ESU)

 

The model manufacturers are aiming at selling budget DCC to a mass market and to a large degree have responded to competitors offering in-house DCC systems with their train-sets (e.g. Bachmann/Lilliput responding to Roco and Hornby). A consumer buying a Roco DCC train-set will likely go on to buy more Roco items rather than Lilliput; same for Hornby v Bachmann etc. For these companies it's not just about selling DCC equipment, but about selling a much broader range of products.

 

The specialist DCC manufacturers on the other hand, offer their entry level systems in an attempt to capture potential lost business for their main product; i.e. their full priced systems.

For example, a new customer to DCC may baulk at paying for a full priced system (e.g. too expensive, uncertainty about the technology, uncertainty over which brand or form factor to buy, would like to try a cheaper system before committing to a more expensive purchase, uncertainty over the level of sophistication or capability actually needed etc, etc.). If the customer chooses a budget option rather than a full priced one, then the DCC manufacturer loses sales, probably to another brand. The customer may then stay with that system, or later on upgrade with the other manufacturers products, i.e. permanently lost sales.

The answer for the DCC manufacturer is to offer its own entry level system to entice potential customers to their brand; but it doesn't stop there. Simply supplying a stand alone entry level system is no guarantee to selling more product; in fact it could be a blocker to the customer buying the more expensive system, i.e. the entry level system undermines the sales potential of the core product and could be a threat to the companies own profitability.

It's not surprising then that manufacturers design such entry level systems as a means to creating more sales, or as a means to get that customer to spend the money they were unsure, unable or unwilling to spend in the first place. There's nothing wrong with that, nor is it unique to model railways or DCC, it's just clever marketing.

 

The NCE approach is particularly clever. Offer an almost fully specified and almost identical version of the full system as the entry level product (at almost a third of the price too), but "nobble it" just enough to almost guarantee that purchasers will spend considerably more money to gain some or all of the missing features or extra capability only available on the full priced system. Rather than being a cynical approach on the part of the manufacturer, this has benefits for the consumer too and further increases the attractiveness of the NCE product.

It helps that it's a very well thought out and well designed system, but potential customers should be aware that few purchasers will stick with the basic product (PowerCab) and many end up spending considerably more money to obtain some or all of the features and functionality that have been left off. Example: for many customers one could look at the £140 (approx) for a PowerCab as the first installment on a £250+ or £385+ system.

(p.s. This is not meant as any form of criticism.)

 

 

In summary, it would be too simple to suggest that DCC systems from model manufacturers will only offer up to a certain level of capability ( e.g. Roco also have the fully featured radio wireless MultiMaus Pro with bundled RR&co RocoMotion software), or that specialist DCC manufacturers offer a better upgrade path to fully featured systems. Whilst generally true, it's probably more important for the individual customer to consider what suits their own personal needs or aspirations and not to be blinded by looks, specifications or "street wisdom". Do the homework and if possible, try before you buy.

[Nigelcliffe]

Minor correction on Ron's otherwise sage words...

 

Digitrax' new Zephyr Xtra ships with a world-wide power supply. The "Xtra" model replaces the original Zephyr which ceased manufacture earlier this year. The Xtra has a number of improvements over the old model.

 

 

- Nigel

[Ron Ron Ron]

I stand corrected Nigel.

[StaffsOatcake]

But you don't have to go all the way to procab you can unlock most of the extra features by upgrading to the SB3a booster thingymabob and you get 5amps

 

which is around £100 plus a transformer from maplins.

 

I love my powercab/procab setup but wish i had seen the booster before I invested in the procab upgrade could have saved myself a few bob that way

 

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

But you don't have to go all the way to procab you can unlock most of the extra features by upgrading to the SB3a booster thingymabob and you get 5amps

which is around £100 plus a transformer from maplins.

Which demonstrates one of my points. Most people don't stop at the initial purchase but go on to spend much more money to obtain the capability or features deliberately left off the basic PowerCab.

 

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

I'm just starting to seriously investigate all of this DCC malarkey... I'm attracted to the NCE Powercab for sure! Can I ask; can it (the "Starter" Powercab) program locos? i.e. write/change CVs, and how does it do this - on a seperate 'programming track'??

Sorry if these are a bit obvious Q's but the info I've found, beyond showing the basic NCE as a good 'plug&play' start-up, is a bit lacking...

 

I've operated a layout using Lenz DCC and I didn't like the handset personally; I operated another with the NCE and found it much more to my liking, but wasn't thinking of going DCC myself at the time... so didn't ask the relevant Q's!!

[Ron Ron Ron]

The PowerCab, like most entry level and budget systems, doesn't have a separate Programming Track output. This is one of the features left off, compared to the complete NCE system.

However, CV's can be programmed (i.e. changed) via the main track output.

For programming on the main this isn't a problem, but when you need to isolate a section of track (or use the whole layout) to programme an individual loco (without affecting others), then you have a number of options.....

 

1) remove all other locos from the layout.

2) disconnect the power feed wires and re-connect to a separate piece of track. Then reconnect to the main layout when you've finished.

3) install a switch to isolate the layout and divert the track feed to a separate piece of programming track.

4) install a device that will automatically do the switching (as in 3 above) for you.

 

Options 1 & 2 may be rather cumbersome and undesirable with all but the smallest of layout arrangements.

Option 3 is cheap but if you forget to switch or switch back it could be a bit of a nuisance.

Option 4 seems ideal...and guess what, NCE sell a device (Auto-SW or auto switch) that fits the bill. Auto switch - £17 from Bromsgrove models.

[bizmad]

I returned to the hobby about three years ago after a 25 year gap. I discovered DCC whilst catching up on developments in various magazines, and this was just before the Dynamis was launched. I was 'persuaded' that this would be the bees knees and would do everything I wanted, so I duly purchased one of the first ones and hooked it up to my 12 foot test track. I was amazed at being able to control 2 locos at once, but wasn't at all impressed with the flimsy feel of it, the display, the joystick control, etc.

 

Some 4 months later I was at an exhibition where I saw a number of DCC controllers on one stand, including the NCE Powercab. As soon as I picked it up it was a revelation, and I bought one on the spot. The Dynamis immediately went on ebay, and I've never regretted the decision. Since then quite a few people have been to see progress on my layout, and two have bought Powercabs as a result of trying mine. For the price, I think it does an excellent job and you wouldn't be disappointed.

 

This question pops up quite regularly on various forums and mailing lists, and the Powercab seems to get more votes than any others. Although I do realise that it won't suit everyone, (we all have our preferences), it does everything I need it to do extremely well.

[Ramblin Rich]

Apologies for adding to the questions here but this seems like a good place to ask....

Am I right in saying the PowerCab can read CV values as well as writing them? I feel the lack of reading ability is one thing that lets Dynamis down badly ...

[Ron Ron Ron]

Am I right in saying the PowerCab can read CV values as well as writing them? I feel the lack of reading ability is one thing that lets Dynamis down badly ...

Yes it can, which is good news..

 

Regards the Dynamis...yes it is a drawback, but which other sub £100 system can read back CV's ? Answer = none.

The Pro Box was originally going to be priced at around the £50 mark, which would have meant a Dynamis Pro system (with a programming track output and computer interface) would be selling today for around £130 (assuming average on-line prices). Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way, price wise or PC interface.

 

.

[Ramblin Rich]

Good point re the cost of Dynamis Ron; it just sems a shame the Pro box option is so much more expensive & still lacking a computer link

[F-UnitMad]

... then you have a number of options.....

 

Options 1 & 2 may be rather cumbersome and undesirable with all but the smallest of layout arrangements.

Option 3 is cheap but if you forget to switch or switch back it could be a bit of a nuisance.

Option 4 seems ideal...and guess what, NCE sell a device (Auto-SW or auto switch) that fits the bill. Auto switch - £17 from Bromsgrove models.

Many thanks indeed Sir!!

Good to know that there are options available. Also thanks for the info that it can read CV's too. I have two locos that have chips fitted, but the person who passed them on to me didn't know/couldn't remember their 'addresses'. I take it the Powercab will be able to show me what they are?

[peach james]

It shouldn't matter what the current address is. When you reprogam a loco, it should flash the old address anyway. (unless you are doing OPS mode programming of things like accelleration rate).

 

Another option, and quite a good one to my mind, is to buy a computer based programmer. (SPROG II or similar- I use a Digitrax PR3). That would mean you don't have to worry about being able to read back CV's. I find that I have never needed to read back CV's from a decoder after programming. Mind, a lot of what I have programmed has used older style decoders.

 

James Powell

[johnteal]

. Also thanks for the info that it can read CV's too. I have two locos that have chips fitted, but the person who passed them on to me didn't know/couldn't remember their 'addresses'. I take it the Powercab will be able to show me what they are?

 

Most decoders can be reset to how it came from the factory by writing a value to one of the CVs. So if you have a decoder that is an unknown quantity it may be best just to reset it, which will return it to address 03 no reading required. That said, in my opinion a system that reads and writes is better than one that just writes.

 

 

 

[pointstaken]

While we're on the subject, Gaugemaster are selling a rebadged version of the MRC Prodigy. Has anyone used this or can venture an opinion on its general functionality, please ?

 

Dennis

[Adrian Wintle]

While we're on the subject, Gaugemaster are selling a rebadged version of the MRC Prodigy. Has anyone used this or can venture an opinion on its general functionality, please ?

 

Dennis

 

It is a reasonably competent system. I particularly like the handset and its display, and find the system very intuitive. AFAIK it doesn't have an open PC interface and so can't be used with DecoderPro or the like.

 

I have an MRC Prodigy Express (the absolute cheapest version of the system) which I use as my bench test controller. Although it is easy to use, I wasn't entirely happy with some aspects of its operation (which may be limited to the Express and probably don't apply to the Advance2), so I use my Lenz Set 100 or my PowerCab for running trains.

 

Most of the DCC vendors around here don't try particularly hard to sell the MRC controllers even if they stock them (i.e. they will push Digitrax or NCE over MRC).

 

Adrian

[pointstaken]

Thanks, Adrian, for your comments. I think I might well go for the NCE PowerCab when I go DCC.

 

Dennis