Tim Lewis Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) As with my workbench thread, I'm copying over my layout thread (there isn't much of it as yet and it's nicer to have things all in the same place). Still prefer topics to blogs, so topic it is!This introductory post will be edited to form some kind of contents list. Edited September 27, 2017 by Tim Lewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Coldstream: page 1 from old RMWeb by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:37 pm Welcome to Coldstream, the planning and researching of which has been occupying my mind on and off for over 20 years now: time I got building! The baseboards have been built for a while now, but last weekend they were joined together for a final sanding of the joints etc. (thanks, Gavin!). I've had a couple of days off this week, and SWMBO is away, so I've temporarily taken over the living room The first couple of pics just show the boards, with a couple of locos positioned to give an idea of size. Sorry about the quality of the pics: they look better without flash, and it's been gloomy in Shrewsbury recently (hand-held at c. 1/4 sec). Underlay will be Exactoscale foam (1 layer yard, 2 layers running lines). I made a start on laying this. The baseboards, although an odd shape, fit very precisely, and I had aimed to attach the underlay across all boards, then cut through at the joints, thus giving a low visibility join in the underlay too. Started off well enough.... Can you see the flaw in the method yet? The templates are temporary ones from an as yet incomplete Templot plan. Everything is in more or less the right place, but haven't tidied up sleeper spacings etc. The 'proper' one will get printed on a large plotter at work. Having tried to cut through the underlay at a joint as a trial, it became apparent I had under-estimated how much the Copydex would get into the joints, and it's much better at sticking ply than foam: not good . Yes, it's obvious to me now, but it wasn't at the time. So, a re-think was required: luckily I hadn't got too far, so the air was only a rather fetching shade of sky-blue rather than the darker purple that it might have been . Took the boards apart, removed bits of underlay that had become ragged in the process, and recommenced, this time doing one board at a time. This is actually much easier, just going to prove what a dumbass idea my first attempt was. So, this work is still in progress. While waiting for glue to set, I'm trying to finish off the Templot plan, which is taking a while but should pay dividends in the long run. I hope to continue making progress over the coming winter, and will keep you updated (just don't hold your breath) . __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:42 pm Hi I presume there will be fiddle yards at each end, is this based a particular station or fictional, lastly what is the large hole at one end??? Nice work so far Mick __________________________________________ Comment posted by dave_long on Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:44 pm That looks really impressive already. What plans do you have for the 2 large holes in the baseboard tops? Is that all your scenic area or do you have more to come? __________________________________________ Comment posted by ChrisM on Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:48 pm nice, what period is the layout going to be set?? You going to be running a day when the ECML is closed and A4's with crack expresses are passing through __________________________________________ Comment posted by smudgeloco on Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:02 pm Tim, your baseboards look amazing. That trackplan looks very interesting too. I can see that this is going to be one to watch. I look forward to seeing progress. Be sure to keep us updated. Michael. __________________________________________ Comment posted by martin_wynne on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:00 pm timlewis wrote: So, this work is still in progress. While waiting for glue to set, I'm trying to finish off the Templot plan, which is taking a while but should pay dividends in the long run. Hi Tim, Great to see Coldstream taking shape at last. I don't know how far you have got with the interlaced NER timbering in Templot -- there is a Templot video showing how to create custom NER templates at: http://www.templot.c...orum/view_topic ... 1779#p1779 Also a Templot data file of NER turnouts for downloading. regards, Martin. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:32 pm micklner wrote: Hi I presume there will be fiddle yards at each end, is this based a particular station or fictional, lastly what is the large hole at one end??? Nice work so far Mick dave_long wrote: That looks really impressive already. What plans do you have for the 2 large holes in the baseboard tops? Is that all your scenic area or do you have more to come? Thanks gents. There will be fiddle yards, but like everything else about this layout, not simple. Depending on what happens when, initially I may have to make do with cassettes. The long term aim is that it ends up in the loft with a single fiddle yard to allow continuous running. Also in the long term I'm hoping to exhibit it, in which case it will use a different fiddle yard and continuous run, shortly to be modified to be dual purpose for Coldstream and a friends layout. It is based on a real location, on the Tweed Valley line between Tweedmouth (ECML) and St. Boswells (Waverley Route). What you see here will be built using a 1908 NER plan, with no compression. The smaller hole is where the turntable will eventually be (yes, I know turntables aren't that shape ). The other bigger hole is for a lower level bit of scenery adjacent to the coal drops. In this pic you can see the turntable road (ending up in the small hole) and part of the coal drops siding (the one that's running along the edge of the big hole).... Lastly, yes this is "all" I'm building for now (it'll take long enough! ). There is the possibility of the optimistically titled Phases 2 and 3 however, which would extend in both directions, although some compression and other geometric liberties would be necessary. But that's a looong way off. __________________________________________ Comment posted by max stafford on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:42 pm Tim, I've long loved the Kelso line, probably since visiting Norham Station in 1980. I'm going to be paying a lot of attention to what looks like being a superb rendition. If my shed was bigger, I'd consider something based on this line. The loft has already been claimed by the Caley! Dave. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:51 pm ChrisM wrote: nice, what period is the layout going to be set?? You going to be running a day when the ECML is closed and A4's with crack expresses are passing through About 1950-52, but with a few bits spanning 1948-1957 (allows me to run some locos which didn't make it to the 1950s, and also some more 'modern' stock, but not together (at least not in public ). As you may know, the line was used for periods of several weeks as a diversionary route when the ECML was out of action: this happened at least twice (1948 and 1956) and possibly more. Problem was that they suspended the normal passenger (and probably goods) service during these periods I believe. If I ever get to the point of having enough stock to run ECML expresses, then at least I've got an excuse. However, after the 1948 closures, there were two freights a day each way Niddrie (Edinburgh)-Tweedmouth, which continued for several years, so I hope to have a long freight or two. Applying a bit of licence, out of my period in the 1930s there were scheduled Newcastle-Edinburgh trains that went this way. So, plenty of reasons for wanting lots of stock: just need time to build it!! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:08 pm martin_wynne wrote: timlewis wrote: So, this work is still in progress. While waiting for glue to set, I'm trying to finish off the Templot plan, which is taking a while but should pay dividends in the long run. Hi Tim, Great to see Coldstream taking shape at last. I don't know how far you have got with the interlaced NER timbering in Templot -- there is a Templot video showing how to create custom NER templates at: http://www.templot.c...orum/view_topic ... 1779#p1779 Also a Templot data file of NER turnouts for downloading. regards, Martin. Hi Martin, long time no see! Yes, it's nice to see something actually happening (though I'm not going to stop armchair modelling completely ). I've only recently got my new(-ish) laptop and broadband sorted out at home, and haven't got round to 're-joining' the Templot forum: seems like I've been missing some useful stuff. Based on the 1 in 8 template you did for me ages ago, and using the NER plans books, I made 'library' interlaced templates for 1 in 6/7/9 almost a year ago: bit fiddly, but got there in the end. Only thing outstanding was that I couldn't get the check rails to move to the correct position (I found what I thought was the right menu option, but it didn't work, can't remember detail, I'll discuss it with you sometime), but I can live with it for now and just move them 'manually' when I lay the track. I'm not going to suggest that my efforts are 100% accurate, but they look like NER turnouts to me (it would be interesting, but possibly embarrassing, to compare mine with yours ). What I'm doing with the Templot plan now is sorting out all the sleeper conflicts where several interlaced-timbered turnouts start to interfere with one another (you'll probably tell me that if I'd done it properly this wouldn't have happened!). Also, there are six different configurations of plain track to sort out: all good fun! Nearly there, but its surprising how long it takes to shove timbers. See you soon? __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:11 pm Good stuff Tim, nice to see something 'real' after all those years of planning and research! And I'm pleased to see you've put down all those newspapers and dust-sheets to assuage any potential wrath from SWMBO Better get on with mine now I suppose ... __________________________________________ Comment posted by martin_wynne on Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:32 pm timlewis wrote: What I'm doing with the Templot plan now is sorting out all the sleeper conflicts where several interlaced-timbered turnouts start to interfere with one another (you'll probably tell me that if I'd done it properly this wouldn't have happened!). Hi Tim, No, it's always a struggle to get the timbering conflicts sorted out. I think the prototype must have been just as difficult. Here's a superb pic from Mick Nicholson which may give some clues: http://www.templot.c...orum/view_topic ... d=11#p1027 and another pic of NER track: http://www.templot.c...bubwith_ner.jpg See you soon? I hope so. Every so often Gavin rings me to remind me it's Monday. It's high time I came over to see what you have all been doing. cheers, Martin. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:47 pm martin_wynne wrote: No, it's always a struggle to get the timbering conflicts sorted out. I think the prototype must have been just as difficult. Here's a superb pic from Mick Nicholson which may give some clues: http://www.templot.c...orum/view_topic ... d=11#p1027 and another pic of NER track: http://www.templot.c...bubwith_ner.jpg Glad I'm not missing something obvious. Thanks for the links to the two pictures: very nice. The sleeper ends on the turnout road in the first one are all over the place. The catch point operating linkage is interesting in the second one. I actually have quite a few photos that show aspects of trackwork at Coldstream, trouble is, with the usual low-angle shots, it can be difficult to work out what the sleeper arrangement is, especially when the ballast is more or less level with the tops. I'm not sure how 'standard' the NER standard was: just from photos I've seen, it's clear that things have to be adjusted to fit the site (which is good, cos it means that I can 'make up' what I don't know, albeit following what I believe would have been sensible practice). __________________________________________ Comment posted by mines a pint on Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:28 am Looks like it will be an interesting one to watch being built ! the pics I have seen of Coldstream, and the rest of the branch typically (in Neil Caplans book) see one coach trains, its amazing just how 'sprawling' the plans are . Look forward to seeing more! __________________________________________ Comment posted by Bernard Lamb on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:38 am timlewis wrote: I actually have quite a few photos that show aspects of trackwork at Coldstream, trouble is, with the usual low-angle shots, it can be difficult to work out what the sleeper arrangement is, especially when the ballast is more or less level with the tops. I'm not sure how 'standard' the NER standard was: just from photos I've seen, it's clear that things have to be adjusted to fit the site (which is good, cos it means that I can 'make up' what I don't know, albeit following what I believe would have been sensible practice). The only town with it's railway station in another country? There are several published shots of Scots Gap taken from the road overbridge that give a very good view of some typical NER sleepering. I don't think that there ever was a 'standard' drawing. I did draw up a template based on C & L parts many years ago and there were always a couple of timbers that didn't want to play ball. It all looks very good so far and I am looking forward to seeing the track when it is built. I see you have the situation of sleeper spacing for the different panels of plain track under control. You don't often see this feature in model form. Bernard __________________________________________ Comment posted by martin_wynne on Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:11 am Bernard Lamb wrote: The only town with it's railway station in another country? Hi Bernard, See also Knighton, on the England/Wales border: (not as off-topic for this thread as you might think. ) regards, Martin. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Anglian on Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:33 am I look forward to seeing this one develop. Your work so far looks of a very high standard. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:34 pm 10800 wrote: Good stuff Tim, nice to see something 'real' after all those years of planning and research! And I'm pleased to see you've put down all those newspapers and dust-sheets to assuage any potential wrath from SWMBO Hi Rod, you've changed your avatar!! Yes, seemed like a good idea , no point getting negative brownie points. Having said that, when I took the boards apart (see above), one very nearly fell off the trestle into the bureau bookcase: this could have been painful, both financially and physically (there doesn't seem to be an emoticon for 'intense relief'!) Better get on with mine now I suppose ... Yes you should. I can say this with a straight face now __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:01 pm timlewis wrote: Hi Rod, you've changed your avatar!! Yes, just a bit of nostalgia (don't know how long it will last). Maybe I should have a competition to guess where/when it is (Andy C and Tony W are excluded from entering!). __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:47 pm Hi Tim! I'm really looking forward to this developing - if it to the same standard as your stock it is going to be amazing! __________________________________________ Comment posted by keefer on Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:17 pm that looks like a really nice trackplan, lots going on without looking too crammed in you probably have all the info you need, but if you don't mind here's a couple of links i found whilst looking for the station/line history: http://www.subbrit.o...k/sb-sites/stat ... ndex.shtml http://www.northumbr...railways.co.uk/ ... coldstream good luck with the layout __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:52 pm keefer wrote: that looks like a really nice trackplan, lots going on without looking too crammed in you probably have all the info you need, but if you don't mind here's a couple of links i found whilst looking for the station/line history: http://www.subbrit.o...k/sb-sites/stat ... ndex.shtml http://www.northumbr...railways.co.uk/ ... coldstream good luck with the layout Keefer, I did already know about these links, but many thanks for reminding me anyway. Just to prove that it's always worth revisiting sites, there are two colour pictures of Coldstream on the Northumbrian Railways site that weren't there a couple of weeks back! And, I've never seen them before . They don't tell me anything 'new' about the infrastructure, but always nice to see different photos, especially colour ones. I suspect the pic of 76050 may be the last day of passenger services: I know it pulled the last train (although I thought I'd seen a pic somewhere else with two coaches?). Several people have said that the track plans look interesting. Yes, I think there should be enough operating potential. I'll post a decent track plan at some point, but you can get the idea from the maps (the later one: it changed a lot!) on the northumbrian-railways site. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:16 pm James wrote: Hi Tim! I'm really looking forward to this developing - if it to the same standard as your stock it is going to be amazing! You're too kind by half thanks . Stock is one thing, but as yet I've never done any scenic work, made any buildings or laid any track, to say nothing of wiring etc. So, plenty to learn and have a go at! Looking forward to it! __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:08 am What are the overall dimensions Tim? __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:01 pm 10800 wrote: What are the overall dimensions Tim? The scenic section is just over 12' long, and about 4'6" at its widest. (I know these should probably be metric). The running lines are more or less in the middle of the wide section, so will need some very reliable auto-couplers (on things that need to uncouple)! So, not enormous, but quite a large area to cover, 'scenery'-wise. __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Coldstream: page 2 from old RMWeb by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:12 pm Catching up on a few things I meant to reply to earlier... max stafford wrote: Tim, I've long loved the Kelso line, probably since visiting Norham Station in 1980. Norham is wonderful isn't it? Not been for a while. For those of you who don't know, Norham is two stations back along towards Tweedmouth and is preserved along with coal drops (with cover for lime cells), goods shed, signal box etc. I think you have to ring to make an appointment to visit. mines a pint wrote: the pics I have seen of Coldstream, and the rest of the branch typically (in Neil Caplans book) see one coach trains, its amazing just how 'sprawling' the plans are . ! Most of the photos you tend to see are from the early 1960s, when the trains were usually a Standard 2 (Hawick-based) with a single Mk1 or Gresley Brake Third. These were often supplemented by several parcels vans on some trains. Back in the 1950s, the trains were mostly two coaches (mixture of Gresley wooden and steel bodied 51' stock, some ex-NER, some ex-NBR, even some LMS!). I have a photo of a four coach train (LNER/NER stock) which doesn't appear to be a special of any kind. Don't know what date this is, but 50s sometime. Yes, the track plan is relatively 'sprawling': even small stations are quite big! The yard did get busy at times: I have pictures where there must be 30 or more wagons in the yard. Bernard Lamb wrote: I am looking forward to seeing the track when it is built. I see you have the situation of sleeper spacing for the different panels of plain track under control. You don't often see this feature in model form. Yes, that was one of the things that made me want to try and reproduce it (although I suspect most people won't notice at all). The track panels are a real mish-mash of lengths and sleeper spacings, many with 2-bolt fishplates. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:13 pm Well, I think I've finished tweaking the Templot plan for Coldstream Sorting out all the sleeper/timber conflicts took a very long time, some of it was , some of it was , but I reckon it will be worth it, as I don't have to think too hard about sleeper spacings anymore, just build the track . There might be the odd 'on-site' adjustment, but very few. My laptop crashed/locked (courtesy of Microsoft) a couple of times part way through: I thought I might lose a lot of work , but Martin has built in a 'continuous backup', so I didn't lose anything: brilliant An example screen shot is attached (maybe this should have been posted in the Templot forum): I'm going for a lie down now __________________________________________ Comment posted by Portchullin Tatty on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:51 pm Tim, Having made a fair number of interlaced turnouts (the Highland were as tight as the North Eastern when it came to avoiding the use of long and expensive timbers!), can I warn you they end up being quite delicate. If you are proposing to make them on bench and then transfer them to the layout, you are going to have to lift them from the drawings ever so carefully. I made mine using ply and rivets. I found that introducing one or two "extra" rivets on the rails where they pass over sleepers but were not sitting on a chair at that point added considerable robustness and can not really be seen. I think you are using plastic components and I suggest you might want to do the same but with a chair, which you subsequently cut away. As another aside, think about turnout operation now. I made the mistake of putting turnouts in locations that were difficult to serve from below and sorely regretted it. With such a complicated trackplan, you could have the same? Like the layout, it looks as if you could have a good one there! Thanks for you comments about mine! __________________________________________ Comment posted by mines a pint on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:08 am An example screen shot is attached (maybe this should have been posted in the Templot forum): I'm going for a lie down now a Well deserved one too! - I have to admit that twelve months into templot I have got to the stage of being able to put useable plans and templates together, but the plan does look like a 'work of art' in itself! I was sensing you probably already had the book I was referring to given the amount of research you have obviously put in, but just one question how on earth did you manage to find out how long each individual rail section was amongst all those different length panel lengths? thats truly amazing attention to detail? __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:24 am Having been used to working with SR type 60ft panels and their sleeper spacings, those short panels (30ft?) in the middle of your extract with what seem to my eyes to be very close spacings at the rail joints look very strange! How long did they last? __________________________________________ Comment posted by mines a pint on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:33 am those short panels (30ft?) -Dont want to speak out of turn- but think they are 30ft/13 sleepers they were on the Rothbury branch too (was looking into that for a model some time ago) Edit: just rechecked book pic (longwitton)- 11 sleepers not 13 - 30ft is a guess also! __________________________________________ Comment posted by dave_long on Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:07 am Portchullin Tatty wrote: Tim, Having made a fair number of interlaced turnouts (the Highland were as tight as the North Eastern when it came to avoiding the use of long and expensive timbers!), can I warn you they end up being quite delicate. If you are proposing to make them on bench and then transfer them to the layout, you are going to have to lift them from the drawings ever so carefully. I made mine using ply and rivets. I found that introducing one or two "extra" rivets on the rails where they pass over sleepers but were not sitting on a chair at that point added considerable robustness and can not really be seen. I think you are using plastic components and I suggest you might want to do the same but with a chair, which you subsequently cut away. You may find this useful I've yet to try it as I built my last lot of points straight on to the layout but it's what I'll be trying on my next one. If you have built some delicate trackwork away from the layout then once your happy with it lightly solder a few pieces of scrap rail across the top of your trackwork to give it some added strength after pealing it away from the templates. hth __________________________________________ Comment posted by Bernard Lamb on Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:21 am mines a pint wrote: those short panels (30ft?) -Dont want to speak out of turn- but think they are 30ft/13 sleepers they were on the Rothbury branch too (was looking into that for a model some time ago) Edit: just rechecked book pic (longwitton)- 11 sleepers not 13 - 30ft is a guess also! You are correct Russ. 30' panels had 11 sleepers going by my NER data tables. There was an earlier steel rail in 80 lb section that came in 24' panels. Going by photos some of the original track lasted at least up until 1957/1958. Then a few short years after it was relaid in modern materials the lines were closed. I am sure that Tim knows more about NER track details than the rest of us put together so I better shutup. Bernard __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:20 pm Portchullin Tatty wrote: Tim, Having made a fair number of interlaced turnouts (the Highland were as tight as the North Eastern when it came to avoiding the use of long and expensive timbers!), can I warn you they end up being quite delicate. If you are proposing to make them on bench and then transfer them to the layout, you are going to have to lift them from the drawings ever so carefully. I made mine using ply and rivets. I found that introducing one or two "extra" rivets on the rails where they pass over sleepers but were not sitting on a chair at that point added considerable robustness and can not really be seen. I think you are using plastic components and I suggest you might want to do the same but with a chair, which you subsequently cut away. As another aside, think about turnout operation now. I made the mistake of putting turnouts in locations that were difficult to serve from below and sorely regretted it. With such a complicated trackplan, you could have the same? Like the layout, it looks as if you could have a good one there! Thanks for you comments about mine! Thanks for the warnings. Yes, I had noticed the interlaced sleepers on Portchullin: very nice! My current thinking is that I will build the track in situ, but I'll try a bit of plain track and a turnout first to see whether I get on with this method. Turnout operation: the baseboards are designed to take Tortoises. Underneath they look like this: As you can see, a lot of the 'base' is cut away to allow access whilst maintaining strength. The underside of the top of the board is entirely unimpeded by any strengthening members or whatever so, apart from having to negotiate the bits of the 'base' that are still there (and if need be I can probably get rid of a bit more), then I'm hoping access won't be a problem. I should have said that the boards are also designed so that there are no turnout switches close to joints (that's why they're such a funny shape: the one in the picture is close to, but isn't, rectangular, some of the others are very weird shapes indeed). __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:01 pm mines a pint wrote: how on earth did you manage to find out how long each individual rail section was amongst all those different length panel lengths? thats truly amazing attention to detail? I spent a looooonnnngggg time looking at photos I have lots of 'glimpses' of track details, but there are many areas I don't have good pictures of, and I certainly don't have any 'official' knowledge, so there's still a fair bit of guesswork, but I think I've managed to capture the essence of trackwork variability. 10800 wrote: Having been used to working with SR type 60ft panels and their sleeper spacings, those short panels (30ft?) in the middle of your extract with what seem to my eyes to be very close spacings at the rail joints look very strange! How long did they last? and Bernard Lamb wrote: mines a pint wrote: those short panels (30ft?) -Dont want to speak out of turn- but think they are 30ft/13 sleepers they were on the Rothbury branch too (was looking into that for a model some time ago) Edit: just rechecked book pic (longwitton)- 11 sleepers not 13 - 30ft is a guess also! You are correct Russ. 30' panels had 11 sleepers going by my NER data tables. There was an earlier steel rail in 80 lb section that came in 24' panels. Going by photos some of the original track lasted at least up until 1957/1958. Then a few short years after it was relaid in modern materials the lines were closed. I am sure that Tim knows more about NER track details than the rest of us put together so I better shutup. Bernard Well at least you noticed the short panels! That was the intention. Those particular ones are 30ft: the reason they look so strange is that they are joined with 2-bolt fishplates (photographic evidence), so the end sleepers get very close together. This is 'non-standard'. But that's only the start of the strange-ness. The two platform roads at one time had 'ordinary' track (I have a picture from the 1930s: can't actually tell panel length, but nothing out of the ordinary). Sometime in the 1930s, most of both platform roads were re-laid with very short panels: I have no actual measurements, but as far as I can tell (from several photos) the Tweedmouth platform was re-laid with 24ft 10 sleeper lengths with 2-bolt fishplates, and the Kelso platform with 27ft 12 sleeper lengths with 2-bolt fishplates. Neither of these is standard either. They stayed like this until closure in 1965. Why this was done I've no idea: perhaps they had lots of 24ft and 27ft rails lying around, but the earlier standards (which panels had different numbers of sleepers) for these lengths used smaller section rail (as Bernard says). I can't tell from photos, but it would seem unlikely that they would lay light section rail on running lines at this date. Unless I discover strong evidence to the contrary, my model is going to have the same section rail throughout: there are limits to my madness There are several other types of track configuration in evidence from photos: for example, some of the main Tweedmouth line a bit away from the station has 45ft 18 sleeper lengths with 4-bolt fishplates, which may (or may not) be replacement track using the LNER standard. However, at the same place, the Kelso line has 45ft 18 sleeper panels with 2-bolt fishplates! Go figure, as they say across the pond. I could go on, but you must be bored by now . Bernard, my knowledge of NER track is limited to published standards, NER record etc., so I certainly don't consider myself an 'expert'. I do however, know quite a bit about NER track at Coldstream. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Bernard Lamb on Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:56 pm Very curious. I have never heard of 27' rails on the NER other than the very early wrought iron double headed type. I just wonder if the rail in your photos is pre 1889 double headed steel section which I thought only existed in 24' or 30' lengths. I can't imagine that any wrought iron rails survived in use as running rails into the 1960s. Now you could try and file a larger radius on the rail head and foot to represent a double headed section for relevant track panels. It won't take that long My interest in the area comes about through having friends who live near Mindrum, just down the branch towards Wooler. Bernard __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:47 pm Hi Can you assist re what type of ballasting was used for rails for the LNER period? I know NER used Ash as ballast was this continued into LNER/BR? I am building a LNER (NER area) layout at moment. cheers Mick __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:15 pm micklner wrote: Hi Can you assist re what type of ballasting was used for rails for the LNER period? I know NER used Ash as ballast was this continued into LNER/BR? I am building a LNER (NER area) layout at moment. cheers Mick I don't know what the 'official' method would have been, but ash/clinker was still very much in evidence at Coldstream right up until closure (see pic, taken sometime in early 60s, I presume it's had ballast added sometime since 1923 ). Having said that, I have pictures from further down the Tweed Valley line (and indeed some small areas at Coldstream) where it looks like some kind of gravel has been used. So, you can probably use whatever takes your fancy, but in LNER days I would go for ash myself, possibly unless it's a main line. I'm experimenting with ballast at the moment: none of the commercial products sold as ash ballast really do it for me (although Carr's '2mm Dark Grey' isn't bad). I guess that 'ash ballast' itself varied a fair bit. The stuff at Coldstream is quite dark, but I suspect elsewhere it could have been lighter? I'll let you know how I get on with my experiments. Currently, it looks like a toss-up between chinchilla dust and bird sand (useful things pet shops ), both sieved, and then soaked with poster paint. I think the sieving is key: 'normal' kitchen sieves will be too coarse: but you can get 'dusting sieves' I believe? I happen to have some old laboratory sieves which are great. (Check out the ballast in the yard on Andy C's New Hey as well: from memory, he used builders sand I think, sprayed with paint. That's where the bird sand tip came from as well). HTH __________________________________________ Comment posted by martin_wynne on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:43 pm timlewis wrote: Hi Tim, Interesting pic. Is that a two-bolt fishplate and very close spacing I can see between the 4th and 5th sleepers from the camera? Martin. __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:46 pm thanks Mick __________________________________________ Comment posted by BrushType4 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:42 pm martin_wynne wrote: timlewis wrote: Hi Tim, Interesting pic. Is that a two-bolt fishplate and very close spacing I can see between the 4th and 5th sleepers from the camera? Martin. Must be where the baseboards join. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:46 pm martin_wynne wrote: Hi Tim, Interesting pic. Is that a two-bolt fishplate and very close spacing I can see between the 4th and 5th sleepers from the camera? Martin. Yep, although this is in the section I'm not modelling at the moment, so haven't paid too much attention. Phase 2? The pic isn't really good enough quality, but it looks like a 12 sleeper length. This is the Alnwick branch just beginning to diverge from the main Tweed Valley lines (2 tracks on right). If you look very closely, you can just make out what appears to be a 4-bolt fishplate in the siding on the left. This pic below is taken just a little way back towards Coldstream (you can see the same signal). Note the obvious 4-bolt plate on the second line from the right (Kelso line). This seems to be an 18 sleeper length, so may be an LNER 'standard' 45ft panel. But, note also the close spacing and 2-bolt plate between 8th and 9th sleepers in the track on the right (Tweedmouth line). See, it's crazy __________________________________________ Comment posted by Rannoch Moor on Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:29 pm Tim, Just found the link into this - I'm looking forward to seeing how you progress in between the spending time on Kilbrannan Ferry. I do wish I'd gone P4 but have spent too much time and ??????‚?? on EM - hey ho.... Gus __________________________________________ Comment posted by martin_wynne on Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:06 pm Hi Tim, Another picture from Mick Nicholson showing a sleepered turnout. This is a more modern pic with good detail: http://www.templot.com/forum/view_topic ... 3550#p3550 Martin. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:23 pm timlewis wrote: Well, I think I've finished tweaking the Templot plan for Coldstream Hmmm, I thought it was too good to be true. I printed out the plan full size at work and took it along to my Area Group meeting last week to see what the boys thought of it. After much discussion, we decided that the coal drops road and adjacent siding were too close together, the end loading dock was too short, the turnout from the down line to the turntable/coal drops headshunt was too close to the platform and some of the yard turnouts might be too generous (i.e. too shallow an angle). The first three points are definitely true, I'm not sure about the last one. So, I spent a good part of yesterday comparing the plan with photos (again!!) and measuring parts of the plan and comparing against 'standage' measurements for the various sidings from the NER 'White Print' diagram, and against linear measurements (in decimal chains: now there's a fabulous unit!) from the official 'Line Diagram'. I've come to the conclusion that a bit of re-working is necessary, although most of the yard turnouts I believe are the correct angle (with the exception of the crossover near the goods shed and the coal drop turnout (which is why the lines are too close). Some of these things I guess no one would ever notice, but now I know about it I have to change them. So, it's back to Templot, but hopefully it won't take too long, although I probably won't be able to do it for a few weeks now. This just goes to show that, even if you work directly onto a surveyed plan as closely as you can, you may not get it right first time. Hey ho. __________________________________________ Comment posted by 60041 on Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:39 am Do you have a track plan for Coldstream - I am very interested in the railways of this area. __________________________________________ Comment posted by tetleys on Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:54 pm Very nice baseboards and it looks an exciting project but I cannot help thinking you'd get things done a lot quicker if you got rid of all that furniture somebody has stored in your model railway room! I do hope those tins of paint I spotted under the baseboards are not waiting to be applied to various domestic rooms. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:02 pm A (very) minor milestone for me: my 200th post tetleys wrote: Very nice baseboards and it looks an exciting project but I cannot help thinking you'd get things done a lot quicker if you got rid of all that furniture somebody has stored in your model railway room! Just wondering whether to pluck up courage to show this to SWMBO as an idea for 'change of use' of the living room. Hmmm, let me think.....nope! I do hope those tins of paint I spotted under the baseboards are not waiting to be applied to various domestic rooms. Much of the paint has already been applied (one of the many reasons why I haven't got far with my layout ), but there's still enough in the tins to make them useful as weights. 60041 wrote: Do you have a track plan for Coldstream - I am very interested in the railways of this area. I do, somewhere, but for some reason I can't find the image file at present. I'll have another look later on. __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:45 pm timlewis wrote: Just wondering whether to pluck up courage to show this to SWMBO as an idea for 'change of use' of the living room. Hmmm, let me think.....nope! (we don't have a smiley for spluttering on the keyboard!) __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:11 pm Spectacular baseboards. Hopefully I might have the space for something similar one day JB. __________________________________________ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Coldstream: page 3 from old RMWeb by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:21 pm OgaugeJB wrote: Spectacular baseboards. JB. Thanks. I should have mentioned earlier that in making the baseboards I had considerable help from members of the local P4 Area Group. One of us has access to large CNC milling machines and can also buy very good quality ply. I produced a simple DXF of the required baseboard shapes (by superimposing on top of the track plan, which I had already scanned and suitably scaled), which was then fed into the machine and voila, there's your boards . The boards were designed such that a) joints miss turnouts, B) minimise number of joints c) boards still fit through loft hatch. As there is no compression in the track plan, this gave rise to some odd shaped boards: they are all quadrilaterals, but there are few right angles. However, we in the group knew from building another layout (Lower Soudley), that the milling machine would produce very close fitting board shapes. In practice, the fit was amazing. Courtesy of AutoCAD, I also produced a DXF for the bottom boards, which are 9mm less all round (the bottom boards fit inside the sides, see picture earlier). Most of the bottom boards are later cut away for access, but this method of construction gives very strong boards. So, this gave me a collection of oddly shaped plywood pieces that somehow needed to be shaken together to form some baseboards! Enter my good friend Gavin Clark and his extensively equipped woodworking workshop. Lots of circular sawing, measuring, bench drilling, measuring again, routing, measuring yet again, gluing and screwing later, the boards were produced (as well as a considerable quantity of sawdust). My contribution to this process mainly involved watching Gavin work (which was therapeutic ) and drilling a few holes. I really need to get back to working on Coldstream: nothing has progressed since November . My current plan is to finish off the wagons I'm working on (see workbench), finish of the J25 (ditto) then do some more on the layout. But we all know what happens to plans don't we? __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:52 pm This will be the last post on this topic on this version of RMWeb: transferring over to the new site. Please follow progress on Coldstream over there! __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 This post isn't very interesting: it's simply the first post on this topic on the new RMweb site (except for the introductory one) and just serves as a placeholder should I need to link to it. Hopefully there'll be some real progress on the layout soon (but don't hold your breath ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) Now this may not look like much to you, but I've waited a (very) long time for this. This is the first length of track to be laid on Coldstream, all 46cm of it. Don't hold your breath, but hopefully more to come over the next few weeks/months. Edited February 1, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 aah excellent stuff. Good to see an update. Topic set to watch and breath baited etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Well it's been a long time coming Tim but that's you off now! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rannoch Moor Posted September 22, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2010 Tim, Agree with Dave and Twa_Dogs - it's great to see you back - nice to see I'm not the only one whose progress is slower than he would like.....! Keep up the track laying, ATB Gus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) Well, hopefully you haven't been holding your breath since September, but here's a bit more progress. I've made the sub-base for the gradient down into the up yard (the bit without any track/sleepers yet), and also made a start on track-laying of the two main running lines. And I couldn't resist posing some stock on it... Sorry about all the sundry detritus. It's not too obvious in the photos, but the track here is on a gentle curve (something like 26ft radius IIRC), which should look nice when there's a bit more of it. I wouldn't hold your breath for the next instalment either, but hopefully sometime in the next few weeks. Edited February 1, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Slow progress (i.e. none ) on the track building front in recent weeks. However, I think I've now finished the final tweaks to the Templot plan, that I've mentioned needed doing before: it's only taken 2 and a bit years from identifying they need to be done to getting round to doing them! Anyway, now finished, so all I need to do is print it off again and build the track. Although it took quite a while to faff around with the changes, it doesn't look radically different from before, but that's because the changes were to sort out minor things like alignment and spacing of some sidings, alter some turnout angles etc. I don't expect you can see many differences between the new example section shown below and its' equivalent further up the thread, but there are a few. Right, better get on with it!! Edited February 1, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 That's four months Tim, lets see some photos of how you're getting on! Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 That's four months Tim, lets see some photos of how you're getting on! Dave. Oh, if only there were some progress to report! Modelling activity for the past few months has been limited to putting P4 wheels under a few Bachmann LNER wagons, and buying one of Arthur K's Q5/1 kits (which will probably sit in the drawer to mature for a while). Combination of busy work and domestic stuff, including thinking about a house move (at least I may get a decent railway room). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Will your new room mean Coldstream can be left up?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Will your new room mean Coldstream can be left up?! That would be the idea, yes. Hopefully that would encourage me to spend more time on it in those odd 'free' half-hours, which can add up to real progress over time. At the moment my study (which doubles as a 'workshop') is crammed full, so it's very difficult to work on it at all (even if I did have time). The difficulty seems to be finding a house with a suitably large railway room (and kitchen - that's the deal ) that is still close to town and is affordable . And of course we haven't sold our house yet etc. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) A tiny amount of progress...... When I laid the track a while back, I stupidly forgot to attach electrical connections (must have been assuming that the trains would run on will power alone ). So, I now have the slightly delicate operation of attaching droppers to track with plastic chairs. I had intended to use Bill Bedford fishplates with tags to achieve this, but as these need to be cut down to 2-bolt plates in this area it would have been asking for trouble: there's just no room to get a soldering iron in between the chairs at the (real) rail joints - guaranteed meltdown. So, I used the nifty little etches from Palatine Models at locations with wider sleeper spacing and some dinky hair clips as heat sinks as shown below.... Despite some very agricultural soldering, this seemed to work quite well: didn't melt any chairs at all. For future track lengths however, I think I'll attach droppers before laying. I've also laid more sleepers on the other lines on this board: Very soon now I'll have to bite the bullet and start making my first turnout Edited February 2, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Interlaced S&C Proper p-way that is! Have you settled in your new railway room? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Interlaced S&C Proper p-way that is! I agree, though it might make the ballasting a bit fiddly: some of the sleepers are close to touching (prototype spacing as far as possible, using NER plans) Have you settled in your new railway room? I wish...... Not moved yet, although still browsing RightMove and the local paper! I think we'll probably put our house on the market in the spring, and see how it goes. So, for now, Coldstream doesn't have a permanent home and I can only put up one or two boards at a time for working on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) A little bit more progress. The substrate to allow the gradient down towards the goods shed has been made, the Templot plan laid, and some sleepers are slowly creeping towards the station. No more rails as yet.This is what it looks like from the other end: the yellow felt pen marks are to remind me to lay 12" timbers rather than the normal 10". I was going to start building a turnout this weekend, but then realised I didn't have all the different types of chair that I need: hopefully I'll get some at Wigan next weekend. Edited February 2, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Always good to see some progress Tim - funny sleepering on the NER eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted December 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2011 Always good to see some progress Tim - funny sleepering on the NER eh? Don't forget we showed the world how to do it... Nice work Tim, always look forward to the occasional update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Always good to see some progress Tim - funny sleepering on the NER eh? Yes, the end-on view emphasises how close the interlaced sleepers are (and also note that there are varying track panel lengths in use as well). The spaces between some of the sleepers are pretty small, but they are built from NER plans, so should be prototypical. Edited December 4, 2011 by Tim Lewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Not much has happened in the last couple of months: work has been gettng in the way too much. However, did manage to find a couple of hours today. Just after Xmas I completed laying all the sleepers (of which there are many ) on the second board, and today I dry-brushed them with a pale grey to tone down the 'brown-ness'. You won't be able to see it on the picture, but I think it is a slight improvement when you see them for real. Eventually there will be further toning down/harmonising with some overall weathering. This shows the rather nice optical effect given by the interlaced sleepers, but I've also realised there is a problem. The point rodding (eventually) needs to transfer from being between the two main running lines, to being between the down line and the down headshunt, and this happens part way along the main crossover between up and down lines. At the moment (as I didn't have any conclusive photographic evidence either way), the crossover is lain as interlaced however, this means that there are too many sleepers in the way to allow the point rodding to do this. I may have to relay half the crossover as timbered rather than sleepered. Still, better to realise this now rather than when the crossover is in position! A bag of bits (special chairs etc) arrived from Exactoscale the other day, so now all I need is some time to make some turnouts. (Incidentally, on another post, people have been saying that delivery times from Exactoscale are quite long: well, my chairs arrived 6 days after I posted the cheque, which I reckon is pretty good, and hopefully indicates that the backlog may have been cleared). Edited February 2, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate picture 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Another tiny bit of progress. Today I made a pair of loose-heel switches, seen in the not very good photo below. You can't tell from the picture, but the rails on the left are 10ft switch blades. The brass fishplate is soldered to these rails. The joint (heel) is hinged by filing off one of the fishplate boltheads, drilling through the fishplate and rail web and inserting a piece of 0.4mm nickel silver wire, carefully soldered to the fishplate only. Seems to work OK (and looks better in the flesh than it does on this picture: it looks like the fishplate is proud of the rail head, but it's not!) Edited February 2, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate picture 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Good to see the progress with this Tim...that trackwork is going to look top class. Interesting to think that the trains running through Coldstream went right past our kitchen window and under the bridge in the garden....... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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