neal Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I see that Bachmann will have another livery option for the 350, but if this is anything to go by I doubt anyone will want it! http://www.westmidlandsrail.com/media/2862/10639229_wmr_train_mockup_ThumbNail.jpg Neal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FairwayJunction Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I see that Bachmann will have another livery option for the 350, but if this is anything to go by I doubt anyone will want it! http://www.westmidlandsrail.com/media/2862/10639229_wmr_train_mockup_ThumbNail.jpg Neal That has to be one of the worst liveries I have ever seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted August 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2017 Having collected my two versions from Alton last Friday I am delighted with them, Bachmann have done a really good job with the livery and if anyone fancies further weathering of the roof on individual carriages they can look at the photos I put up on the 'To weather or not to weather a SWT 450' topic. I think you would have to be both brave and competent to try! Hopefully this run will sell well and Bachmann could very easily do another run of the weathered version by painting some of the roofs the darker blue colour that was applied almost randomly to carriages, presumably depending on the degree of weathering that had taken place. I was looking at some 450s yesterday from the footbridge at Eastleigh and noticed that even now the darker blue has not been applied to all of them. Having said all that, my wallet would appreciate a bit of a rest! all the best Godfrey 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) I did some research and the new franchise starting from the 20th of August will be called "South Western Trains". I wish they called it "London South Western" but oh well. Anyway an interesting point to note is the new franchise is announcing plans to refurbish and enter 18 Class 442s to service for use on London Waterloo to Portsmouth services so perhaps we may see the class 442 in the future. Not sure who your source is, as it is not fully accurate. During the Waterloo blockade the trading name of First MTR South Western Railway Ltd shall be called South West Trains with no new brand (thus de-branding of current) until post blockade. This shall be in early September with vinyls applied fairly quickly to the 450s et al. As for 442s, all I shall say is watch this space. I believed they would just be vinyl and rolled into service. I was very wrong, actually it is fairly exciting the plans for the 18 x 442s. New MD is an engineer so expect quality in the stock. Anyway...back to the Bachmann Desiro model... Who is up for lobbying retailers to release a limited edition of the local artist's 450 vinyls featuring the New Forest and the Jurassic Coast seen on 450112 and 450118 (not my photo): https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenpoole/34409203605/sizes/l Ive asked Kernow MRC! Edited August 18, 2017 by 159220 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) As for a 444 model, I think we have more chance in inventing a shrinking machine and stealing a real 444 to reduce to 1:76. Though those rare Steam engines and early BR locomotives where only a dozen or so were built all seem to be getting tooled now. So never say never to a 444 model! (Though I secretly pray for a 442 model nightly) I agree, despite the common cab, there is little else of use to the modeler seeking to make a 444 from a 350/450. You would need entirely new body and chassis toolings which are the most expensive parts of a model. The fact that you could reuse the CADs for the front cabs and maybe the bogie toolings are unlikely to be enough change the economics of the project. Also there is the case of numbers. There are over 200 350/450 Desiros in service but less than a quarter that number of 444s. Also the 444s are almost exclusively used on the Portsmouth and Weymouth lines with just the odd jaunt to Alton to break the monotony. I will keep my fingers crossed for the 444 and 442 but I won't expect them RTR any time soon. Edited August 18, 2017 by Karhedron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hue Jarse Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 The fact that you could reuse the CADs for the front cabs and maybe the bogie toolings are unlikely to be enough change the economics of the project. You couldn't even reuse the CAD for the cabs without changes as a 444 coach is narrower than a 450. (Ask anyone who has driven both). This is neccessary due to the longer coach length causing more overhang which is compensated for somewhat by the coaches being narrower. This is also why the corridor connectors are noticeably longer on a 444. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) You couldn't even reuse the CAD for the cabs without changes as a 444 coach is narrower than a 450. (Ask anyone who has driven both). This is neccessary due to the longer coach length causing more overhang which is compensated for somewhat by the coaches being narrower. This is also why the corridor connectors are noticeably longer on a 444. Indeed, I was forever banging my left elbow on the handrail on the 444 when applying full power. If you look at the them from the front there is considerably less yellow to the side of the windscreen on the 444. Edited August 19, 2017 by royaloak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Relatively unusually for these days - Desiro's on the Virginia Water - Weybridge, Bachmann's 450073 spends part of it's last weekday in SWT service on the branch ........ seen arriving at Weybridge yesterday - before that unbelievable rain arrived ......................... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I went ahead and purchased a London Midland Desiro thanks to it being on clearance pricing. The only reason I did was the fact that the livery will soon be consigned to history, and I always quite liked it (one of only 3 modern liveries I do like). That new livery the trains round my area will carry makes me want to throw up! What in the name of all that is holy was anyone in the design department for West Midland Trains thinking when they came up with that one!! Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart2day Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) I went ahead and purchased a London Midland Desiro thanks to it being on clearance pricing. The only reason I did was the fact that the livery will soon be consigned to history, and I always quite liked it (one of only 3 modern liveries I do like). That new livery the trains round my area will carry makes me want to throw up! What in the name of all that is holy was anyone in the design department for West Midland Trains thinking when they came up with that one!! Alex What are the other two modern liveries you like? Can we be certain that that livery is the one they will use? I have to add to the comments that it is truly awful. Edited August 19, 2017 by bart2day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Damo Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 My Dad took delivery of his non-weathered version a couple of days ago, so having been both a guard and driver of these units I was particularly interested to pop over and give it the once over! In addition to the aforementioned minor issues mentioned by other contributors to this thread, I did also notice the lack of guards office (or "goldfish bowl" as we refer to them!) next to the first class section which I thought was a bit of a disappointment. Overall though I thought it an impressive looking model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) What are the other two modern liveries you like? Can we be certain that that livery is the one they will use? I have to add to the comments that it is truly awful. The normal Freightliner Yellow & Green livery (not the powerhaul version) and the DRS Compass liveries, especially on the Class 68. I also think the EWS livery is not too bad, but even that is pretty much a thing of the past now. I hope with all my heart they don't go with that livery, but at the moment that picture is all we have to go on. Alex Edited August 19, 2017 by Midland Mole 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted August 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2017 The normal Freightliner Yellow & Green livery (not the powerhaul version) and the DRS Compass liveries, especially on the Class 68. I also think the EWS livery is not too bad, but even that is pretty much a thing of the past now. I hope with all my heart they don't go with that livery, but at the moment that picture is all we have to go on. Alex And the new SWR livery isn't looking great either... Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hue Jarse Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Do you mean this one doing the rounds on social media? Edited August 19, 2017 by Hue Jarse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2017 Ok has anyone found this on their 450. On dc the lights work sort or correct in that the correct ones are on but the ones that should be off flicker too. On dcc all lights are on together! I've read about joined contacts elsewhere but the fact they aren't all in on dc but On and others flicker suggests a circuit issue to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2017 Can I ask if anyone knows whether it is possible to have working coupling mechanisms at both ends. I know that the coupling mech works at 1 end but I have sometimes wondered about being able to couple them at both ends. This would allow 12 car formations to be created with the SWT versions for anybody with a railway big enough. It would also mean that for anyone who can only run an 8 car unit could couple a loco direct to the unit to tow the unit and make it look like the unit had failed. It's got NEM pockets on the outer ends and comes with couplings. Also if failed in service it's most common to be rescued by another unit due to getting a loco hired in and fitting it with temporary couplings taking more time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 21, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2017 I doubt it, The Desiro just needed a few tweaks to the tooling, a 442 would be all new tools and restricted to Southern areas. There's a whole thread on the franchise and discussion on the 442's elsewhere. How the 442's perform on a section of line they struggled on in the past and had to run as 10 cars, with restricted stops in poor conditions, remains to be seen the sand bins are still there according to one of our MOM's! Please remember that the 442s will be receiving a brand new traction package removing all trace of the 1960s era REP equipment and as such past performance is no guide to the future. A full interior refurbishment is also planned - which will no doubt include modifications to install a proper accessible toilet, etc and hopefully new door systems, air con systems, etc (the existing equipment being obsolete and unreliable) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Please remember that the 442s will be receiving a brand new traction package removing all trace of the 1960s era REP equipment and as such past performance is no guide to the future. )Yes I agree but it was putting the power down that was the problem especially on inclines. It's going to need a very sophisticated wheelslip control to overcome their tendency to slip as I can't see them distributing the power to more axles. I rode them regularly and they frequently slipped at speed too if it was wet or icy. I'm not the only one interested to see how they overcome that on the route chosen. Edited August 21, 2017 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) If anybody has any pictures of the couplers at both ends of a Bachmann Desiro ( class 350 or 450 or possibly both classes ) I would be greatful just in case I am ever able to buy a few. That way I will know what can and cannot be done.Mine are factory fitted with regular push fit NEM pockets and standard two pin couplings. Edited August 21, 2017 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Please remember that the 442s will be receiving a brand new traction package removing all trace of the 1960s era REP equipment and as such past performance is no guide to the future. A full interior refurbishment is also planned - which will no doubt include modifications to install a proper accessible toilet, etc and hopefully new door systems, air con systems, etc (the existing equipment being obsolete and unreliable) Sorry - sodded up the quote bit - this is PaulRhB's quote "Yes I agree but it was putting the power down that was the problem especially on inclines. It's going to need a very sophisticated wheelslip control to overcome their tendency to slip as I can't see them distributing the power to more axles. I rode them regularly and they frequently slipped at speed too if it was wet or icy. I'm not the only one interested to see how they overcome that on the route chosen." My reply post ...................... Will they retain the EE546 motors & gearing though ? They worked better under a heavy single unit like a 73 but didn't perform as well with just a coach body on top - lots of power but indifferent traction - needs a 25kg bag of sand under each seat ................ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Mine are factory fitted with regular push fit NEM pockets and standard two pin couplings.IMG_2962.JPG Nearly - this is 450073 + 450074 together at Weybridge last Friday .............. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 24, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2017 Ok has anyone found this on their 450. On dc the lights work sort or correct in that the correct ones are on but the ones that should be off flicker too. On dcc all lights are on together! I've read about joined contacts elsewhere but the fact they aren't all in on dc but On and others flicker suggests a circuit issue to me. I solved this problem by buying a Bachmann 36-557 decoder instead of the Gaugemaster one I had already. Interesting when both supposed to be nmra Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 I have just received my 450, chipped it and set it running on my layout. I was pleasantly surprised to see it manages my inclines (steeper than 1:30 and including 2nd radius curves) with little difficulty. I say surprised as I have also a 350 from the initial batch a few years ago. This struggles on the inclines to the extent that I won't run it in fear of damaging the motor. Has anyone else experienced this problem with the early 350s? Is there known to be a different motor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Regarding the end couplings, I finally found the NEM362 Hornby International working Scharfenberg couplings that I knew I had stashed somewhere. I did a test fit on my recently acquired LM350s. Sadly, as expected, the position of the pocket doesn't allow them to operate - if the fishtail pocket was just set a few mm forward that would do the trick. As the unit end couplings are bogie mounted rather than on CCM mechanisms, they also foul the skirts on train set curves but are OK on more generous radii. They do look superb though! Edited September 10, 2017 by andyman7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 5, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 5, 2017 Regarding the end couplings, I finally found the NEM362 Hornby International working Dellner couplings that I knew I had stashed somewhere. I did a test fit on my recently acquired LM350s. Sadly, as expected, the position of the pocket doesn't allow them to operate - if the fishtail pocket was just set a few mm forward that would do the trick. As the unit end couplings are bogie mounted rather than on CCM mechanisms, they also foul the skirts on train set curves but are OK on more generous radii. They do look superb though! Can you pull them forward abit - out of the NEM pocket. Then temporary secure in place with blu-tac or similar to test? Glue in place if successful. I've extended NEM mounted couplers this way before now. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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