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Dapol Class 21/29

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The Scots were prone to economy with headcodes often displaying only the train class in a random position in the digits....

 

We have yet to find a model that we havent been able to change headcodes on even if that means sacrificing the original glazing when the headcode has been printed on the back. Not usually the case with Dapol.....

 

Precision Labels versions have always worked well for us....

Edited by Phil Bullock
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I’ve now fitted a sound chip to my Dapol Class 21. I chose the Coastal DCC product, recorded off a DB class 218 which had a similar engine, although how much the hydraulic transmission would affect the sound I’m not sure. Kevin has programmed all of the Dapol light settings onto the Loksound chip. It sounds nice and bassy but I’ve no idea whether it’s accurate. 

 

Here are a couple of short videos of it running on my layout Gresley Jn. Any comments on the sound welcome.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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OK, so what do people think of the visibility of the communicating doors on Dapol's class 29?

 

As far as I was aware these were panelled over during conversion, and yes the weld lines did become steadily more visible as withdrawal approached, but surely not when first converted? (Rails photo) It's almost like they have been inspired by Hornby! 

 

4d-014-001.IMG_0622.jpg?preset=large

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1 hour ago, stovepipe said:

OK, so what do people think of the visibility of the communicating doors on Dapol's class 29?

 

As far as I was aware these were panelled over during conversion, and yes the weld lines did become steadily more visible as withdrawal approached, but surely not when first converted? (Rails photo) It's almost like they have been inspired by Hornby! 

 

4d-014-001.IMG_0622.jpg?preset=large


Compare with these two:

72 131 100672  Glasgow Works D6101+D6133

Picture from same Flickr photostream as Phil Bullock used upthread.

 

One on right looks to slightly show door outline below headcode box, but nothing above.  

 

Picture of real ones suggests a pretty “clean” face compared to model, e.g. lamp irons also seem more prominent, presumably an issue of what can be reproduced commercially?

 

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12 hours ago, stovepipe said:

OK, so what do people think of the visibility of the communicating doors on Dapol's class 29?

 

As far as I was aware these were panelled over during conversion, and yes the weld lines did become steadily more visible as withdrawal approached, but surely not when first converted? (Rails photo) It's almost like they have been inspired by Hornby! 

 

 

I was curious and had a look through a few photos of these last night. It does seem that the recesses on the gang doors are more prominent on the two/tone green versions (most shots including a dusting of dirt). Conversely, the doors are very smoothly welded on most BR Blue versions. 

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Has anybody applied the bufferbeam details yet ? I notice there's differently shaped receptacle holes but without any illustrations that I can see on the instruction sheets it's a reference to prototypical images :)

The drawgear hook itself seems to be red on the green liveried version.

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14 hours ago, stovepipe said:

OK, so what do people think of the visibility of the communicating doors on Dapol's class 29?

'Tis the old story, that as the general level of fidelity improves, what would have been overlooked on a less refined model comes to the fore. This is rather like the old issue on Bach's mk1s with mountainous representations of the roof panel welds, which BR were extremely proud of having flush welded with no further finishing required. I had to scrape them off until Bach saw the light.

 

If it offends, then filler it has to be. Never having seen a 29 in reality it escapes my notice: but the oval bufferheads with the long axis off level, eye gouging!

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1 hour ago, DLIBOD17 said:

Has anybody applied the bufferbeam details yet ? I notice there's differently shaped receptacle holes but without any illustrations that I can see on the instruction sheets it's a reference to prototypical images :)

The drawgear hook itself seems to be red on the green liveried version.

The latest Hornby Mag has a review of the model. Flicking through, I noted there was a head-on pic of the model which seemed to have the fittings added?

 

Stewart

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2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

'Tis the old story, that as the general level of fidelity improves, what would have been overlooked on a less refined model comes to the fore. This is rather like the old issue on Bach's mk1s with mountainous representations of the roof panel welds, which BR were extremely proud of having flush welded with no further finishing required. I had to scrape them off until Bach saw the light.

 

If it offends, then filler it has to be. Never having seen a 29 in reality it escapes my notice: but the oval bufferheads with the long axis off level, eye gouging!

 

Well put it this way, I can remember the kerfuffle over the Hornby 21/29, with the presence of gangway doors and headcodes being a source of amusement - which class was it, etc?

 

I really didn't imagine Dapol would replicate the same, erm, 'feature' !

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/NZpHbsikHZ4U4N1N6

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6 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

Well put it this way, I can remember the kerfuffle over the Hornby 21/29, with the presence of gangway doors and headcodes being a source of amusement - which class was it, etc?

 

I really didn't imagine Dapol would replicate the same, erm, 'feature' !

I was 'dormant' as far as railway modelling was concerned at that time, so blissfully unaware!

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20 hours ago, 26power said:


Compare with these two:

72 131 100672  Glasgow Works D6101+D6133

Picture from same Flickr photostream as Phil Bullock used upthread.

 

One on right looks to slightly show door outline below headcode box, but nothing above.  

 

Picture of real ones suggests a pretty “clean” face compared to model, e.g. lamp irons also seem more prominent, presumably an issue of what can be reproduced commercially?

 

The bright green on the Dapol one, compares loudly to the much darker looking shade on the above picture.

i’m waiting for the full yellow ended versions, before I judge the sealed doors.

 

however I have the good book in front of me, and page 68 shows D6114 in Inverurie works for attention, in its workstained class 29 guise, and those sealed doors are exceptionally visible !

 

Edited by adb968008
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Started the conversion of 6129 to EM today.  Of course this means taking bits off so straight away you are up against it due to the lack of parts diagram with the loco. Not being a stranger to voiding warranties on locos, I spent a good 10 - 15 minutes sussing out how it all went together before wielding any tools. Given the complexity of the axles and wheel arrangements I cant see anyone doing a drop in wheelset for these so the only option is the wheel puller.

 

The bogie frames are removed by gently pressing in the two lugs at the front of the bogies, just behind the NEM pocket. The frames popped free easily revealing the works beneath, more of which later. Pulling the wheels out they are on split axles with a gear on the plastic centre.

 

1600025201_291.jpg.2d0416d7cf9df7e5b9747169989abfd4.jpg

 

1488306061_292.jpg.c6f8f6d084e2ee395a47a218d6049f21.jpg

 

The wheel pulller has a 2mm spigot which usually works well on Hornby / Bachman / Heljan diesels but this was a bit of an interference fit. To put the tin hat on the turd, there's not a lot of meat left on the axle once you have moved it out around 1mm, so as I found, off pops the wheel when I tried to take the wheel puller off. Needless to say the rest were gripped in the vice before removal of the tool. I also found there was a thin fibre washer on the axle between the wheel and the brass bearings, presumably for some insulation but it really shouldn't need it. Again a diagram may help!

 

1332732335_293.jpg.4388d0c4bac2793743b9f7f5794e8b60.jpg

 

Although I used the BTB I also double checked with the micrometer to make sure all was in order at 16.5 mil! Given that theres not a lot to grip on, the wheels have had some Loctite 603 on as a double indemnity! The next bit is to move the brake blocks out a bit in the frames to prevent fouling before it all goes back together and I can put a good dollop of muck on the loco via the airbrush, drybrush and weathering powders. I'm working to a deadline of having it ready for Model Rail Scotland so need to get the skates on.

 

Its by far the hardest wheel pulling exercise I have done on a diesel, usually it takes me around 15 mins to complete a Bo Bo and having it running again. As usual manufacturers (with the exception of the lads at Accurascale) pay no heed to those who like to model at a more correct gauge, and Dapol have compounded the sin by not putting in a diagram making it all a bit of a stab in the dark. I suspect as well the over complex drive owes its origins to the 22, which correct me if I'm wrong but harks back to the enfant terrible's reign at Dapol, and probably explains why it's like it is, a tad overdone. Having said that its not a bad model at all and tootled along OK on the OO test track and hopefully will look good on North Ballachulish.

 

I must admit I was tempted at Doncaster this weekend to get a Two Tone Green 29 as well, but decided, wisely with hindsight, to hold off until I get this one fettled.  £130 is a lot to spend if what you end up with is a loco which needs major surgery to get to run in EM or P4.

 

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You have my thanks for beginning the probe into the undocumented construction!

16 hours ago, Persephone said:

...To put the tin hat on the turd, there's not a lot of meat left on the axle once you have moved it out around 1mm...

 

 I suspect as well the over complex drive owes its origins to the 22, which correct me if I'm wrong but harks back to the enfant terrible's reign at Dapol, and probably explains why it's like it is, a tad overdone...

Do I take it from this that the wheels are a force fit on a steel (or other metal) half axle? Have you considered the option when time allows of replacement millimetre longer half axles?

 

The gear train arrangement is much the same as seen in comparable Bach, Heljan, Hornby, (and inevitably the North American HO product for which this drive method was originally developed) so I'd suggest no malign influence need be of concern. (His mistake was adding side rods to all gear coupled driving wheels. For that to reliably work well the axle gears have to be assembled uniformly in phase with the crankpin quartering.)

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Yeah I'm aware the actual gear train is pretty much standard, but the actual design of the drive on the axle and the axle itself makes life harder. Its not a simple case of just sticking in a longer replacement 2mm axle into the plastic bush. The axle assembly is basically a plastic bush for insulation between the two metal axles, with an integral moulded gear on it. Now i'm not keen on that because basically you are buggered if it strips! Mind you I know a way round that lol. The metal axles (3mm, Ive had it in the micrometer) itself slots into the bush on each side - they have a 2mm spigot on the end on which the wheels are an interference fit.

 

As you can see its not just a simple case of getting a longer 2mm axle and sticking it in the bush, to do the job properly involves getting the club Unimat out, getting a 3mm axle and turning a 2mm spigot on the end of it. Something I probably will do eventually, unless of course the job Ive done now is a total success, in which case, let sleeping dogs lie. Or better still someone bruings out the correct profile spoked wheels for it. The photo below albeit slightly out of focus shows the issue - under OO 14.5mm  BTB the spigot is not visible.

 

29_wheel.jpg.e1a08ab6ac06230119766918bbcd9811.jpg

 

The other fun issue without a diagram is working out where the vac bag, heating pipe, Multiple working jumper goes. Luckily there are enough photos to follow but for the less research inclined, Dapol really have scored an own goal here.

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1 hour ago, Persephone said:

Yeah I'm aware the actual gear train is pretty much standard, but the actual design of the drive on the axle and the axle itself makes life harder. Its not a simple case of just sticking in a longer replacement 2mm axle into the plastic bush. The axle assembly is basically a plastic bush for insulation between the two metal axles, with an integral moulded gear on it. Now i'm not keen on that because basically you are buggered if it strips! Mind you I know a way round that lol. The metal axles (3mm, Ive had it in the micrometer) itself slots into the bush on each side - they have a 2mm spigot on the end on which the wheels are an interference fit.

 

As you can see its not just a simple case of getting a longer 2mm axle and sticking it in the bush, to do the job properly involves getting the club Unimat out, getting a 3mm axle and turning a 2mm spigot on the end of it. Something I probably will do eventually, unless of course the job Ive done now is a total success, in which case, let sleeping dogs lie. Or better still someone bruings out the correct profile spoked wheels for it. The photo below albeit slightly out of focus shows the issue - under OO 14.5mm  BTB the spigot is not visible.

 

You could gain at least half a millimetre each side by re-profiling those chunky flanges, giving more axle for the wheels to sit on.

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1 hour ago, Persephone said:

The other fun issue without a diagram is working out where the vac bag, heating pipe, Multiple working jumper goes. Luckily there are enough photos to follow but for the less research inclined, Dapol really have scored an own goal here.

 

The picture 26power linked to back up this page should help with that

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2 hours ago, Persephone said:

...The axle assembly is basically a plastic bush for insulation between the two metal axles, with an integral moulded gear on it. ... The metal axles (3mm, Ive had it in the micrometer) itself slots into the bush on each side - they have a 2mm spigot on the end on which the wheels are an interference fit...

Copied that, and put it in the loco file for future reference, thanks.

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19 hours ago, Persephone said:

......... Its not a simple case of just sticking in a longer replacement 2mm axle into the plastic bush. ..........

 

Is there any reason why one can't just pull the axles out of the gear muffs by the required amount?

 

David

Edited by Kylestrome

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23 minutes ago, Kylestrome said:

 

Is there reason why one can't just pull the axles out of the gear muffs by the required amount?

 

David

 

Devil and deep blue sea, didn't seem to be any extra leeway by doing that, and there seemed to be a lot more slop as well, I prefer the metal on metal with a dab of loctite.  As a postscript it seems to have done the trick. 

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13 hours ago, Kylestrome said:

 

Is there reason why one can't just pull the axles out of the gear muffs by the required amount?

 

David

That’s the route I’m experimenting with, I’ll know if it works once my fibre washers arrive from a well known emporium 

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On 05/02/2020 at 14:16, Phil Bullock said:

72 135 100672  Glasgow Works D6129 +D6112+D6116

Is correct for D6129 but not neccessarily on others....

 

What a horrible picture :(

 

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50 minutes ago, ianmacc said:

What a horrible picture :(

 

 

I know ! Did apologise for it.....

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