Football Focus

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

More people don't support Premier League clubs than do, it's just a pity there is a high level of willy waving going on in it.

To create a more level playing field I'd like to see a draft pick scenario throughout the football leagues similar to the NFL in America, that would focus somebodies attention!

Also some form of wage/transfer capping would help long term financial common sense and sustainability.

Getting rid of money grabbing leech like agents might help too.

All of which are virtually impossible to implement, but I can dream.

 

Mike.

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Getting rid of money grabbing leech like agents might help too.

 

I'd say we need to do that before anything else... Most owners do actually like the club they buy/own and do at least try to make things work... Agents are just dirt...

[pH]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

To create a more level playing field I'd like to see a draft pick scenario throughout the football leagues similar to the NFL in America ...

 

The NFL, along with other leagues such as the NHL and NBA, have only one division at the highest level, with therefore no promotion or relegation. In general, before all the trading of picks that goes on, teams get to pick in the reverse order of how they finish in the league in the previous season. I'm not sure how drafting would work in a structure which has multiple divisions and promotion and relegation within those divisions. 

 

Yes, there are other leagues in these sports, but they function as feeders to the top league. No teams from those leagues can move up to the top league. Each of these feeder leagues has its own drafting procedure, taking players from leagues below them in the structure. 

 

To me, that would imply that to introduce drafting, a one-time selection of those teams to form the top division (and all other divisions) would have to be made. I don't see that being a problem-free process. 

 

I think I can see ways in which very limited promotion and relegation might be combined with drafting, but I think, even with that, teams would be very unlikely to climb through multiple divisions - certainly, no team would be able to perform the "upward Northampton Town" manoeuvre.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, pH said:

 

The NFL, along with other leagues such as the NHL and NBA, have only one division at the highest level, with therefore no promotion or relegation. In general, before all the trading of picks that goes on, teams get to pick in the reverse order of how they finish in the league in the previous season. I'm not sure how drafting would work in a structure which has multiple divisions and promotion and relegation within those divisions. 

 

Yes, there are other leagues in these sports, but they function as feeders to the top league. No teams from those leagues can move up to the top league. Each of these feeder leagues has its own drafting procedure, taking players from leagues below them in the structure. 

 

To me, that would imply that to introduce drafting, a one-time selection of those teams to form the top division (and all other divisions) would have to be made. I don't see that being a problem-free process. 

 

I think I can see ways in which very limited promotion and relegation might be combined with drafting, but I think, even with that, teams would be very unlikely to climb through multiple divisions - certainly, no team would be able to perform the "upward Northampton Town" manoeuvre.

 

As I said, I don't think it's easy by any means, but a variation on the theme of the NFL might ensure that the relegated clubs, (generally speaking of course, not exclusively), are not the promoted clubs from last season. It might create a more competitive league and remove the "rights" of the so called big four, and if spread through the divisions equlise things a little more long term. It would be an even more successful scenario in the Scottish league and might even improve the Scotland national team.

 

Mike.

 

[D.Platt]

It would be an interesting conversation with an original Salford fan when FC United was set up I think Salford had 100/200 gates ,now I would think they wanted to watch non league football, if they had wanted league football they had a good choice to go to , so their new owners come along with a desire to get to the championship ! What do the original fans do ? Stay for the journey or find another non league club to follow.

 

[BoD]

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Agents are just dirt...

 

Helped  along the way by some managers ................allegedly.

[Steamport Southport]

8 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

More people don't support Premier League clubs than do, it's just a pity there is a high level of willy waving going on in it.

To create a more level playing field I'd like to see a draft pick scenario throughout the football leagues similar to the NFL in America, that would focus somebodies attention!

Also some form of wage/transfer capping would help long term financial common sense and sustainability.

Getting rid of money grabbing leech like agents might help too.

All of which are virtually impossible to implement, but I can dream.

 

Mike.

 

Only if you include match going fans.

 

Teams like Liverpool and Man United have millions of fans. Just that they don't or can't go to the match. But they all buy the merchandise and spend hundreds of millions on it. Are they lesser fans? No. They are essential.

 

 

 

Jason

[Torper]

An agent is only an agent, of the footballer.  The footballer doesn't have to employ one and doesn't have to do what the agent advises.  It could be said that the agent does nothing more than capitalise on the footballer's greed, or more generously that he does his best to secure the best deal for his client (and himself) and to protect his client's interests in an industry that is prepared to pay stupid sums of money (to him as well as the player - I undertand that Liverpool paid out £43.8 million last year to agents alone).

 

FIFA could change the rules and may well do so - it is considering changing its rules so only a player can pay the agent, while limiting the percentage of the contract the player then has to share with a representative. It is likely to be capped at around 5%.

 

DT

Edited May 6, 2019 by Torper

[Torper]

4 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

As I said, I don't think it's easy by any means, but a variation on the theme of the NFL might ensure that the relegated clubs, (generally speaking of course, not exclusively), are not the promoted clubs from last season. It might create a more competitive league and remove the "rights" of the so called big four, and if spread through the divisions equlise things a little more long term. It would be an even more successful scenario in the Scottish league and might even improve the Scotland national team

 

Merely from the Scottish perspective I don't see how that would work at all.  Maybe I just do't understand it - perhaps you could clarify?  We also have to remember that players here, just like everyone else, have the  right to choose their employer and that in Scotland at least, not all clubs can afford to pay the same wages.

 

DT

[D.Platt]

27 minutes ago, Torper said:

An agent is only an agent, of the footballer.  The footballer doesn't have to employ one and doesn't have to do what the agent advises.  It could be said that the agent does nothing more than capitalise on the footballer's greed, or more generously that he does his best to secure the best deal for his client (and himself) and to protect his client's interests in an industry that is prepared to pay stupid sums of money (to him as well as the player - I undertand that Liverpool paid out £43.8 million last year to agents alone).

 

FIFA could change the rules and may well do so - it is considering changing its rules so only a player can pay the agent, while limiting the percentage of the contract the player then has to share with a representative. It is likely to be capped at around 5%.

 

DT

 

All the money going out of the game on agents fee , it’s obscene like you mention FIFA could stop it overnight if they had the will power, if a player uses an agent that’s fine but he or she pays the fee not the clubs, I wonder if Paul Pogba would have been happy to pay 40 million out of his pocket .

[Torper]

Pogpa's transfer was an example of the same agent representing the player, the selling club, and buying club, and taking a payment from all three - the transfer fee was £89 million and on top of that the agent, Mino Raiola, was paid by all three parties, "earning" £41 million from the transfer.

 

It does strike me that while everyone complains about the system, precious little has been done up until now to stop it.  FIFA may now be acting (or at least talking about it) but I don't see any reason why in England the FA and the leagues should not ban payments to agents by clubs with immediate effect.  It would however require unanimity and a way of policing it, both of which could prove difficult.

 

If you want to see how much your club (English leagues and non League, even Frickley Athletic) paid out to agents last year, here's the table:

http://thebootifulgame.co.uk/2019/04/04/fa-release-fees-paid-to-agents-by-non-league-clubs-even-a-step-4-side-is-on-the-list/

 

DT

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Torper

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Torper said:

 

Merely from the Scottish perspective I don't see how that would work at all.  Maybe I just do't understand it - perhaps you could clarify?  We also have to remember that players here, just like everyone else, have the  right to choose their employer and that in Scotland at least, not all clubs can afford to pay the same wages.

 

DT

 

I'm not saying it's easy, or it would work, it would need one hell of an overhaul of the entire world football structure, and that would need a half effective govening body for a start, and that ain't going to happen while ever money talks.

To way oversimplify, the players are contracted by and to, say, the Scottish FA who would allocate players by a version of the draft pick model. It would mean that maybe every now and again the East Fifes, Berwick Rangers and other lesser teams supporters might have something to look forward to.

Of course, the elephant in the room is having a good coaching system at the club, as in the case of the New England Patriots, who seem to do consistently well "despite" the draft pick system.

It will never happen though whilst ever money is king, nobody at the big clubs really gives a toss about the team or it's supporters, all they need is a return on their, increasingly foreign, investment.

 

Mike.

[south_tyne]

A full on equitable salary cap, as in NFL, wouldn't work in football but something needs to be done to level the playing field somewhat. Financial Fair Play is not the answer either - it allows the big boys to maintain their stranglehold and is seen by some as an obstruction to ambition. I don't know what the answer is though. 

 

One of the (few, in my humble opinion) positive things about the Premier League is that the money from the TV deal is shared equally between all twenty clubs. It is really important that this is maintained. It is not the case in other leagues; in La Liga for instance, Barcelona, Real Madrid and to some extent Athletico Madrid take a much bigger slice of the pie than the other teams in the division. 

 

The draft system is (I think) unique to US sport but we don't have that structure in the UK, where there is an extensive college structure, across three divisions, from which althletes graduate and then are selected as professional athletes. As Mike says, of course the Patriots are the exception to this seemingly level playing field.....

 

Money is simply the driving force behind football, at every level, and will continue to be so. The budget and income of a club is almost the 'be all and end all', whether you are Manchester Utd or Berwick Rangers. But it always has been to some extent - see Sunderland's 'Team of the Talents' - it's just that the disparity and gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' is so wide now. 

 

[south_tyne]

39 minutes ago, Torper said:

 

It does strike me that while everyone complains about the system, precious little has been done up until now to stop it. 

 

Very true. That is a statement that could be applied to many things across the football world! 

 

[cary hill]

Here's hoping that Jamie Vardy can repeat his unique feat tonight of being the only player to have ever scored a top flight hat-trick against a Pep Guardiola managed side.

 

It would be great if we could remain unbeaten by Man.City in normal time this season having beaten them on Boxing Day in the League and gone out on pens in the League Cup.

 

Leicester are supposed to be the "form" team (excluding the "Big Two" in the Prem since Brendan Rodgers took over as Manager.......... but when reality kicks in it still wouldn't surprise me if Leicester lose heavily tonight.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by cary hill

[cary hill]

I didn't know Vincent Kompany had 30 yard plus screamers in his locker...... I thought he was just Headmaster of strategic and tactical fouling at Man.City

[south_tyne]

I have heard a few Liverpool fans say in recent days that they felt that there was a certain destiny and fate behind them which made them confident, despite being against the odds, of winning the title. Unfortunately for them, there was actually a somewhat of a 'it's meant to be' in Kompany's screamer - wonderful strike that was ultimately worthy of deciding the final destination of this epic title race.

 

Vincent has been a world class defender and continues to inspire those around him in the twilight years of his career. More importantly though, he is fantastic, intelligent, classy person, a credit to himself and a fine ambassador for the game. You would think that there are no future twists left in the story now and Man City should dispatch Brighton with ease on Sunday.

 

 

[Hobby]

That's tempting fate, ST, I'd rather you didn't say things like that, this is City you are talking about!

 

Where he got that one from Lord knows! Having watched the fly on the wall doc from last year he seems a genuine nice guy off the pitch as well! His father in law is a United Fan, there was a hilarious bit where they were watching the Utd v West Brom match when City won the league due to United's defeat, everyone in the room jumping up and down except his FiL, poor chap, I felt for him!

 

(Cary, aren't all central defenders masters of strategic fouling? In the "old" days they'd have broke your leg as well!)

[Joseph_Pestell]

Well, I certainly agree about Kompany's influence on players around him. One of the all-time great captains and I think he may go on to be a great coach in a similar vein to Guardiola.

 

A great shot but the defenders should not have given him that much time and space. Leicester will be kicking themselves.

 

City should beat Brighton on Sunday - but football is full of surprises. Look how City struggled to beat QPR for their first Prem title, and that was at the Etihad.

 

Why are Spurs always so poor over the last few weeks of the season?

[Hobby]

17 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

A great shot but the defenders should not have given him that much time and space.

 

Like everyone else, including his own players and manager, they expected him to pass, that's why!

[Gareth Collier]

8 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 and Man City should dispatch Brighton with ease on Sunday.

But we're safe now so the shackles will be off, I predict a 6-0 home win with a Murray hat trick thrown in with his third the result of a previously unknown burst of speed as he leaves the City defenders in his wake and cheekily chips Ederson into the far corner.......................we can always dream.

[south_tyne]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

That's tempting fate, ST, I'd rather you didn't say things like that, this is City you are talking about!

 

Where he got that one from Lord knows! Having watched the fly on the wall doc from last year he seems a genuine nice guy off the pitch as well! His father in law is a United Fan, there was a hilarious bit where they were watching the Utd v West Brom match when City won the league due to United's defeat, everyone in the room jumping up and down except his FiL, poor chap, I felt for him!

 

(Cary, aren't all central defenders masters of strategic fouling? In the "old" days they'd have broke your leg as well!)

 

Honestly, whilst I know Man City fans are often fatalist in outlook, I really cannot see Brighton taking anything from you. 

 

Kompany is a class act. He speaks so eloquently and sensibly. It is so pronounced that you sometimes forget that English is not his first language. He is fluent in both French and Flemish and has evidently played a massive role in helping to unite the two factions in the Belgian dressing room, something that has been a problem in the past between those from Flanders and the Walloons.

 

I would agree on the central defender point... being canny (in the rest of the UK sense of the word, not in my Geordie tongue!!) is a key part of the game. Thankfully the days of complete thuggery have disappeared but there is still a place for playing hard but fair. The best players are still masters of the dark arts. 

 

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Well, I certainly agree about Kompany's influence on players around him. One of the all-time great captains and I think he may go on to be a great coach in a similar vein to Guardiola.

 

A great shot but the defenders should not have given him that much time and space. Leicester will be kicking themselves.

 

City should beat Brighton on Sunday - but football is full of surprises. Look how City struggled to beat QPR for their first Prem title, and that was at the Etihad.

 

Why are Spurs always so poor over the last few weeks of the season?

 

I think Man City will do everything in their power to hang on to Kompany and get him embedded in the club once his playing days are over. Even if he doesn't want to go down the coaching route, you could see him performing a role similar to what Van der Sar or Overmars do at Ajax once he hangs up his boots. 

 

On the Spurs point, I think it simply comes down to the strength and depth of the squad. Their first team is at a similar level to Man City and Liverpool but they simply don't have the number of players or the quality in back-up that those two have. Man City have 25 top quality players and can switch players in and out seamlessly. Tottenham don't; they maybe have 18 to 20 players at that level but as soon as tiredness, injury and suspension bite then this is exposed. The fact that they have managed to remain competitive in both the league and in Europe for so long this season is remarkable in itself. Going two transfer windows without bringing in a players is indicative of this but, as I understand, Pochettino is very picky about who he will bring in and will only sign sign player if he is absolutely certain that they can fit into his system. However, the fact that they have lost 13 games this season and will still finish in the top four is amazing! It suggests that the Premier League isn't as strong as some folk think...... greatest league in the world, I don't think so......

 

[BoD]

37 minutes ago, south_tyne said:

On the Spurs point, I think it simply comes down to the strength and depth of the squad. Their first team is at a similar level to Man City and Liverpool but they simply don't have the number of players or the quality in back-up that those two have.

 

 

 

I recall, a few seasons ago, Man City and Man Utd were fighting it out over top spot and the cameras panned along the subs benches.  The comment at the time was,  combined, they would probably have challenged for third.

[south_tyne]

6 minutes ago, BoD said:

 

 

I recall, a few seasons ago, Man City and Man Utd were fighting it out over top spot and the cameras panned along the subs benches.  The comment at the time was,  combined, they would probably have challenged for third.

 

I'm sure that Man City's '2nd 11' would be able to challenge for third this season. 

 

I don't know how Spurs move forward really. The argument is, how do you attract another world class striker when the perception is that will never start lf Kane is for? Why would you sit on the bench I suppose. However, Man City don't have Aguero available they can call on Jesus (wouldn't every club like to be able to call on a saviour like that! ) whereas, if Kane is out, they only have Llorente and poor Vincent Janssen to call on. Callum Wilson has been mentioned and, whilst I think he is a great player, if I were him I would rather stay at Bournemouth as the main man than go to Tottenham and play second fiddle.

 

They need half a dozen more players, across the park, of similar quality to those they have - a couple of defenders, a few midfielders and another forward. There are really strong rumours that Eriksen is off to Real Madrid mind; I think he will be the biggest loss of any player and almost irreplaceable. One thing is certain though, Pochettino is a fabulous manager. 

 

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, south_tyne said:

Honestly, whilst I know Man City fans are often fatalist in outlook

 

I think Man City will do everything in their power to hang on to Kompany and get him embedded in the club once his playing days are over. Even if he doesn't want to go down the coaching route, you could see him performing a role similar to what Van der Sar or Overmars do at Ajax once he hangs up his boots. 

 

Comes of many years of experience!

 

I hope you are right, I'd like to see him stay as well.