Football Focus

[south_tyne]

15 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

I've always considered the offside parameters a tad too difficult for lino's/ref's to accurately observe, a full body clearance would be more noticeable

 

That's the problem isn't it. We have taken decisions away from what is discernable with the human eye and within a timeframe that can be processed by the brain and handed it to a computer quibbling over millimetres. It has also lost that mindset of giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the use of technology when it benefits the game but I am sceptical as to whether VAR in its current incarnation does so. Human error and falability is a part of sport, it always has been. Whether that is the players on the pitch, the officials or the coaching staff. VAR is attempting to make an inperfect game perfect and I don't think it's possible. We need 99% of decisions to be right, but contentious decisions have always been part of football. Let's face it, when so many calls made by referees and linesmen are subjective, fans will never be happy when a decision goes against their team!

 

19 hours ago, 43110andyb said:

Thankfully they can never take this away from me 

 and I doubt we will ever see it at our level thankfully!

 

...... and that is why we just love football!! 

 

15 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

My point exactly, that's why we love football but now, rather than unbridled joy, it's a couple of minutes wait until VAR has checked to make sure a player hasn't looked at an opponent in an unfriendly manner before a message is posted up on the big screen saying 'goal, you may now celebrate'.

For all the benefits of VAR it's destroying the excitement.......

 

Agreed! It's just changing the dynamics of watching a game from the terraces. Thankfully it will be a long time until VAR reaches the GIS and NLN but I do feel sorry for fans of Premier League clubs (and I rarely say that!) 

 

On a more positive notes, I see that your lads are now playing total football after the more attritional style and functional approach of the last few years. Let's hope it is a good decision come May! 

 

 

[Hobby]

Get rid of the offside rule, allow players into the box at penalties and allow the goalies to dance around as much as they want...  Problem solved, no need for VAR!

[Gareth Collier]

9 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

On a more positive notes, I see that your lads are now playing total football after the more attritional style and functional approach of the last few years. Let's hope it is a good decision come May!

I have to be honest, the set up on Saturday was such a positive one that it caught me out. I had it down as a home win! I'm used to away games with everyone behind the ball with the game plan being keep a clean sheet and just maybe get one on the break which was very similar to the home game plan! When it went wrong and a goal was conceded plan B was the same as plan A just trying to keep it to one.

I still fear relegation but would much rather go down having given it a go than with a negative whimper.

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 hours ago, Hobby said:

Get rid of the offside rule, allow players into the box at penalties and allow the goalies to dance around as much as they want...  Problem solved, no need for VAR!

 

For penalties, put the goalie on a stick operated by two defenders Subbuteo style!

 

Mike.

[andyram]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

For penalties, put the goalie on a stick operated by two defenders Subbuteo style!

 

Mike.

 

Subbuteo. There is a word that brings many happy memories. Much better than these FIFA games.

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 minutes ago, andyram said:

 

Subbuteo. There is a word that brings many happy memories. Much better than these FIFA games.

 

, and considerably faster!

 

Mike.

[peanuts]

1 hour ago, andyram said:

 

Subbuteo. There is a word that brings many happy memories. Much better than these FIFA games.

after school Subbuteo league at junior school pitches rolled out onto them matts  used for P.E. 

[Gareth Collier]

11 hours ago, peanuts said:

after school Subbuteo league at junior school pitches rolled out onto them matts  used for P.E. 

Matches at home were always interesting as the kitchen table was slightly smaller than the mat so one goal line would hang over the edge (no goal line technology either) and a rampaging run down the wing was fraught with danger from the 3 ft drop!

[62613]

On 13/08/2019 at 09:41, Hobby said:

Get rid of the offside rule, allow players into the box at penalties and allow the goalies to dance around as much as they want...  Problem solved, no need for VAR!

 

Get rid of the offside law, and what you'd have is a tall player in the opposing penalty area, with his* team-mates lumping the ball up to him*, hoping he'd*

score. It's the offside law which introduces tactics and skill (as in correct decision-making) into the game.

 

* Other genders available on request

On penalties, perhaps allow the keeper to move after the ref. has blown their whistle. But that could give an advantage to the penalty-taker.

 

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, 62613 said:

It's the offside law which introduces tactics and skill (as in correct decision-making) into the game.

 

And loads of subsequent arguments about whether a player is offside or not... If it's got to the stage where technology has to be used to make the decision (no skill there, then) it's time to review if the law is fit for purpose. Getting rid of it just means a change in tactics, that's all.

[DIW]

ISTR in the past that in a cup competition within the English football leagues geographic area (Texaco Cup? Milk Cup? some other sponsor perhaps?) the offside rule only applied within the penalty area. Perhaps that would be worth consideration. Of course I don't remember these days whether the penalty area location applied only to the receiving player, the ball kicker or both. Does anyone else remember this, and does anyone know why the experiment was discontinued?

[luckymucklebackit]

1 hour ago, DIW said:

ISTR in the past that in a cup competition within the English football leagues geographic area (Texaco Cup? Milk Cup? some other sponsor perhaps?) the offside rule only applied within the penalty area. Perhaps that would be worth consideration. Of course I don't remember these days whether the penalty area location applied only to the receiving player, the ball kicker or both. Does anyone else remember this, and does anyone know why the experiment was discontinued?

 

It was tried in the either the Scottish League Cup or the Drybrough Cup, a line was extended from the 18 yard box to each touchline and the offside rule only applied between that line and the goal line

 

edit to correct and add Wikipedia description - "The Drybrough Cup was a Scottish annual football tournament. It was held from 1971 until 1974, and was revived from 1979 to 1980. It was open to the four highest-scoring teams from Division 1, and the four highest-scoring teams from Division 2. The format allowed the tournament to have three rounds: first round, semi-final and final. The tournament was held in the week preceding the commencement of the league season

The tournament was first conceived because the Scottish Football Association would not permit existing competitions to have a title sponsor.  The Drybrough brewery got around this regulation by inventing a new competition bearing their name.

In the 1972, 1973 and 1974 Drybrough Cups, an experimental version of the offside law was operated. "

 

Jim

Edited August 14, 2019 by luckymucklebackit

[DIW]

Thanks for that information, Jim. I have now learnt (from you) that it was a Scottish cup competition, not English.  I'm also a bit surprised that some of the competition was shown on TV in Hampshire back in the early 70's! I remember now the extended line from the penalty box for the offside, but at the age I was then I didn't understand what the offside rule was about - it didn't apply in the school playgrounds.

Edited August 14, 2019 by DIW

[pH]

7 hours ago, DIW said:

... the offside rule only applied within the penalty area. Perhaps that would be worth consideration.

 

So, in addition to all the decisions to be made with the existing offside rule, officials would have the extra one of deciding whether the offside was inside that area or not?

Edited August 14, 2019 by pH

[DIW]

1 minute ago, pH said:

 

So, in addition to all the decisions to be made with the existing offside rule, officials would have the additional one of deciding whether the offside was inside that area or not?

Yes, that was about the sum of it. But unless the player(s) was/were in the area, the rule didn't apply.

 

Consider the application in the (very much) lower local leagues where finding volunteer match officials is tricky. A lineman who only had to run the line for the distance of a penalty area instead of all the way to the halfway line might even be able to last out for the whole game,  and may be inclined to turn out for a game after all.

[Ohmisterporter]

IIRC the penalty area line extension to the sides of the pitch was tried as an experiment one year in the Anglo-Italian Cup (remember that?). With no offside between halfway line and penalty area it was not deemed a success because defences tended to hang back to the edge of penalty area rather than further up field. Thus attacking play was stifled rather than encouraged. 

[lightengine]

Thank you Leeds.

[andyram]

13 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

Matches at home were always interesting as the kitchen table was slightly smaller than the mat so one goal line would hang over the edge (no goal line technology either) and a rampaging run down the wing was fraught with danger from the 3 ft drop!

 

I remember playing games against my Grandfather on an oval dining table when I used to visit on a Sunday. We used to have take short corners like in hockey!

 

Great days.

[south_tyne]

On 13/08/2019 at 16:40, Gareth Collier said:

I have to be honest, the set up on Saturday was such a positive one that it caught me out. I had it down as a home win! I'm used to away games with everyone behind the ball with the game plan being keep a clean sheet and just maybe get one on the break which was very similar to the home game plan! When it went wrong and a goal was conceded plan B was the same as plan A just trying to keep it to one.

I still fear relegation but would much rather go down having given it a go than with a negative whimper.

 

I know the Brighton fans were somewhat upset to lose Hughton, or at least we're disappointed by the manner of his departure, but I think Potter is a positive appointment. I know people will say it is only Sweden, but he did miraculous things in the Allsvenskan in competing with the traditional heavyweights of Malmö, AIK, IFK etc, who have relatively such massive resources compared to Östersunds. He also did relatively well at Swansea in very difficult circumstances. 

 

Judging by the first weekend, I think a number of clubs potentially at the bottom will have a go. Norwich, Villa, Sheff Utd, Brighton will all play football for better or for worse. 

 

I was pleased to see Dan Burn play as part of a back three. I always keep an eye on him as he started at Darlo and I saw him play a few times there before he moved on to bigger and better things. 

[south_tyne]

20 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

Matches at home were always interesting as the kitchen table was slightly smaller than the mat so one goal line would hang over the edge (no goal line technology either) and a rampaging run down the wing was fraught with danger from the 3 ft drop!

 

To be honest, I never really 'got' Subbuteo. I liked the concept and idea more than the reality. It might be sacrilege to say but I found it incredible boring! Maybe I just didn't have the attention span 

[2750Papyrus]

Never really got into Subbuteo but we had another football game.  This had a hard plastic pitch about 20" x 12" on legs about 6" tall.  There were only 2 or 3 model players each side and they had magnets in their bases.  Each human player had a "stick" about 12" long with a magnet at the end, which was used to control the players on the pitch.  This was good fun but liable to disruption by cheating (particularly by my Dad), either by inverting one's stick (and hence the magnetic pole) to control the opponent's players, or by striking the underside of the pitch!

 

I can't remember the name of this game - does anyone else remember it?

[luckymucklebackit]

9 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Never really got into Subbuteo but we had another football game.  This had a hard plastic pitch about 20" x 12" on legs about 6" tall.  There were only 2 or 3 model players each side and they had magnets in their bases.  Each human player had a "stick" about 12" long with a magnet at the end, which was used to control the players on the pitch.  This was good fun but liable to disruption by cheating (particularly by my Dad), either by inverting one's stick (and hence the magnetic pole) to control the opponent's players, or by striking the underside of the pitch!

 

I can't remember the name of this game - does anyone else remember it?

 

Super Soccer by chance https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/464293042804378998

[south_tyne]

29 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Never really got into Subbuteo but we had another football game.  This had a hard plastic pitch about 20" x 12" on legs about 6" tall.  There were only 2 or 3 model players each side and they had magnets in their bases.  Each human player had a "stick" about 12" long with a magnet at the end, which was used to control the players on the pitch.  This was good fun but liable to disruption by cheating (particularly by my Dad), either by inverting one's stick (and hence the magnetic pole) to control the opponent's players, or by striking the underside of the pitch!

 

I can't remember the name of this game - does anyone else remember it?

 

That's triggered my memory.... we had a similar one, there were magnets on the player bases but to pass the ball you pushed the head of the player down to squeeze the base and fire the ball. It was great fun and far better than Subbuteo! Similarly I think the goalies were on a stick. Cannot remember the name of that one though. 

[south_tyne]

18 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said:

 

It was tried in the either the Scottish League Cup or the Drybrough Cup, a line was extended from the 18 yard box to each touchline and the offside rule only applied between that line and the goal line

 

Thanks Jim, that's fascinating. If I recall correctly, in the '70s the NASL also changed the offside rule to counter sides playing an offside trap. I think the 'line' was moved from half-way to about mid-way in the defending teams half. I don't know what kind of impact it that. They also utilised the better known ice hockey penalties  (rather than a dead ball from 12 yards) and decided drawn games with a penalty shootout. 

 

Edit: double-checked and the offside line was moved to 35 yards. FIFA evidently put a stop to it in 1982!

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by south_tyne
Checked the facts!

[Ohmisterporter]

18 hours ago, DIW said:

 

Consider the application in the (very much) lower local leagues where finding volunteer match officials is tricky. A lineman who only had to run the line for the distance of a penalty area instead of all the way to the halfway line might even be able to last out for the whole game,  and may be inclined to turn out for a game after all.

 

The problem of attracting referees and linesmen is largely down to abuse they receive from both players and spectators, sometimes physical. A workmate was a keen player who turned out for two different clubs on Saturdays and Sundays. A recurring dislocated shoulder meant he had to give up playing but he missed the involvement in the game so he took the necessary courses for refereeing (in a local league and Sunday league). He gave it up after one season because he was fed up with with being pushed around and the abuse and threats from "See you in the car park after the game" to "We know where you live". Little or no support from league officials or the police who crazily seem to think it is all part of the game. Well, it isn't and nobody should have to "tolerate" it.