Caledonian 123

[colmflanagan]

I've just recently bought one of the Hornby ltd edition 2007 sets which feature this loco. It has a lovely paint job but oh, the front end - huge air gap over the bogie, huge old style coupling etc.,

I'm not a "collector" so am embarking on a bit of detailing, removing the coupling and fitting a screw link one, fitting a new frame under the footplate to fill that huge gap and adding vac pipes etc.

I shall probably fit lamps - does anyone know what colour Caledonian lamp bodies were, or know where there are any photos of the loco with them on?

The pics I have seen from the Glasgow Museum show a blue bodied lamp attached to the cabside (one side only?) and the route indicator arms central on the buffer beam, but no lamps on the front at all.

 

Any info welcome from folk who are more knowledgeable about the Caley than I am. (PS yes I know the coaches aren't right too!)

 

Colm Flanagan

[Nick Holliday]

The Caledonian Railway didn't really do headcodes as we know them. They had brackets of each side of the cab, upon which twin lensed lamps were carried, and had a single bracket on the top of the smokebox, in front of the chimney. On this could be carried, depending I expect upon the task in hand, a lamp, a circular or oval white disc, the rather odd semaphore indicator, or nothing at all.

I couldn't find any reference in the mighty Caledonian Railway Association's "Caledonian Railway Livery" regarding the colour of the lamp bodies. The implication from the various colour plates is that they generally were in the body colour, i.e. blue or black, although sometimes it looks like a black one on a blue loco.

Of course after grouping the three bufferbeam brackets would have appeared, and these have survived into preservation, at least when 123 was operational.

[colmflanagan]

Many thanks for that helpful reply. Clearly there are quite a few "possibilities" here!

 

Colm

[Bon Accord]

When she was at work during the late 50s/early 60s the cabside lamps were painted in the same blue as the the rest of the loco, they also had '123' emblazoned on the sides.

She also had a set of LMS style headlamps painted in the same manner for use on the front end to signify the correct headcode.

Another famous addition, was that since it was incredibly rare for her to work tender first, she had thistles etched into her highly polished front buffers.

She is a wonderful old engine, and oh what I would do to see her on the main line today!

[keefer]

a smashing photo of 123 at callander, undated, but perhaps 1960s?

shows the blue lamps with 123 on the side, but on standard lamp-irons.(also shows the 'thistle' buffers!)

 

http://www.phantasrail.co.uk/Gold/Gold0329t.JPG

 

a rather interesting article in itself, 'Frank Jones (sometime PR man, Manchester London Road and Glasgow)' at:

 

http://www.steamindex.com/library/frank.htm

 

quote : "One of the obscure, but delightful, episodes which happened on the Scottish Region was the restoration and running of several preserved pre-grouping locomotives. There was an extensive correspondence between my father and Mr Hogg the archivist in Edinburgh concerning this locomotive which led to a slender brochure printed by McCorquodale to mark a run on 18 March 1958 from Perth to Edinburgh. The cover is reproduced below: ".

 

http://www.steamindex.com/media/cr123.jpg

 

shows the lamps on the cab-side lamp-irons

[scotcent]

There was an article in Model Engineer for August 1942 giving details of Caledonian Railway lamps with (undimensioned) drawings; This is the only published material I know of about CR loco lamps. Two styles are shown, by Drummond and by McIntosh, but photographs suggest there were variations. They were painted loco colour with full loco lining (but again see photographs). Caley Coaches do quite a good representation (in 4mm scale) of the McIntosh version. I think I'm right in saying that the lamps presently on 123 are LMS / BR lamps painted in CR colours

 

Allan F

[bahram]

There was a rumour many years ago around Glasgow that a film company was to make a film about the 'Race to the North' and that 123 was take part, but apparently, so the rumour goes, 123 has a crack in one of her driving wheels and would cost to much. I remember seeing her in action when many of locos were in 'preserved' working action at Dawsholm. The thistle removal is a mystery. I stay in Glasgow and have visited the Kelvin Hall regularly and there is no sign of the thistle anywhere on the face of the buffers, it had disappeared completely. Being an LNER enthusiast I prefer the 'Sodger', I would love an RTR model of that. As an interesting aside, at the rear of the Kelvin Hall last week a large trailer with rails on it was parked at the door. Maybe they are now moving the large exhibits to the new Museum?

[Bob Reid]

Bahram - My old boy was given the job of putting the thistles on to the buffers at the Caley - they were actually ground on and not etched - hence they were quite resistant to removal even during its celebrity period in traffic. We often saw it at Copland Road and he couldn't help reminding me each time that was his claim to fame however at some point after its move to the Kelvin Hall they'd allowed the buffers (which were once heavilly lacquered) to get rusty and I suspect they were removed in the cleaning up - and of course were sadly never redone!

[Bon Accord]

There was a rumour many years ago around Glasgow that a film company was to make a film about the 'Race to the North' and that 123 was take part, but apparently, so the rumour goes, 123 has a crack in one of her driving wheels and would cost to much. I remember seeing her in action when many of locos were in 'preserved' working action at Dawsholm. The thistle removal is a mystery. I stay in Glasgow and have visited the Kelvin Hall regularly and there is no sign of the thistle anywhere on the face of the buffers, it had disappeared completely. Being an LNER enthusiast I prefer the 'Sodger', I would love an RTR model of that. As an interesting aside, at the rear of the Kelvin Hall last week a large trailer with rails on it was parked at the door. Maybe they are now moving the large exhibits to the new Museum?

 

The GSWR tank, Jones Goods and Glen Douglas are already in the new museum, not sure about 123 though.

The Sodjer migrated to Bo'ness a few weeks ago - she really is in showroom finish, beautiful!

I

[bahram]

Did not know the Sodjer went to Bo'ness, hane not been there for about a month, I saw Glen Douglas there, it was out on display along with other locos like Maud earlier this year, at the same time 419 was repainted in BR black, don't like the Caley, but it did look smart. As an aside I saw today on channel four the film "Those Magnificent Men and their flying machine, I only watched up to the scene with the Jones Goods, brilliant, does anyone know what the coaches and are and have they been preserved that were used in the scene are. Thanks for post 65B very interesting and answers some questions. As far what is in the Museum, difficult to see in from the Expressway.

[colmflanagan]

Here are a couple of pics of the modification I have made to the Hornby model of 123. For now, I've left the issue of lamps to be decided later!

 

This basically involved removing the coupling (easy), then cutting away the front of the bogie (taking care not to damage the pickups or fixing screw holes!), adding plastic card "frames" under the front footplate (trial and error!), then adding detail like vacuum/steam pipes. I think it imrpoves the front end look of the model. The coaches can be tweaked too but I haven't done anything about that yet either - where do you stop? After all, the set was just an impulse buy becuse I remembered a friend having the loco many years ago!

 

Colm Flanagan

[paul 27]

Just read this topic any more pictures advice on detailing the model, 

i remember purchasing the old Triang/Hornby model in the

late sixties i think it was a matt blue did they change to gloss

when Hornby re introduced it in the 70/80s, beautifull looking

model shown above has this been re painted, i was hoping

Hornby or some one would make a super detailed ready

to run model of this.

Edited October 3, 2021 by paul 27

[colmflanagan]

Hi Paul, there's  not much else to add to my 2010 post. I never got round to doing anything with the coaches! Just watch you don't make the front frames too tight to the top of the bogie, or the driver will spin on dips in the track! Colm

[roythebus1]

I'm just doing a Lord of the Isles and investigating why the wheels slip going forwards but not backwards. Remembering too the visit of City of Truro to the K&ESR about 10 years ago, that had problems pulling away at Wittersham Road which is uphill. the driver told me it wouldn't pull as well forwards as it would backwards due to the weight transfer of the driving wheels. This caused me to look at LOTI again and found the same was the case with the model! In reverse, the driving wheels cause the trailing wheels to dig in, in effect lifting the front bogie which then transfers more weight to the drivers. going forward, the drivers cause the front of the loco down on the gap over the bogie and then lose their grip. Maybe some light springing under the front end my help? I've already packed bits of lead everywhere I can to get more weight over the drivers, but it's difficult!  It's easier to hide weight in LOTI as it has the outside frames.

[33C]

Take the magnet out of the chassis. It's only for grip on steel track. Replace with lead or balsa, whatever's your pleasure. This will free up the trailing wheels and take the "pull" off the axle slots.

[roythebus1]

Yes I done that as well.

 

[deepfat]

I am thinking of bodging a LOTI by using the spare bogey from the lovely Bachmann City of London to get rod of the huge gap.  Has anyone tried this or are there other ways to get the front bogey to be as good and close as on the Bachamm City class?

[Compound2632]

12 hours ago, deepfat said:

I am thinking of bodging a LOTI by using the spare bogey from the lovely Bachmann City of London to get rod of the huge gap.  Has anyone tried this or are there other ways to get the front bogey to be as good and close as on the Bachamm City class?

 

I suspect you will find that you are always up against the Triang dodge of setting the buffer height, and hence height of footplate etc., 2 mm higher above rail level than they should be on a dead scale model (which the Bachmann City is closer to being). So however fine the bogie, there will always be an excessive gap.

[Steamport Southport]

I always wanted one of these but never got one. 

 

I'm pretty satisfied with the Great British Locomotives copy though. The one that was with the magazine partwork. Currently on top of one of my shelves.

 

Would love a proper one though, in 1960s condition. Hint, hint!

 

 

 

Jason