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jamie92208

Lancaster Green Ayre - Let there be light, and there was.

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Hi Simon. I am always interested in new sources of info. Is the book you are talking about the one by Donald Binns or the one by Martin Bairstow, both of which are useful or is it another one.

 

Jamie

 

Its the one by Donald Binn's i think i know he is a local author from Skipton & i belive he has written a few book's on the local line's around the north west.

 

Simon.

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Its the one by Donald Binn's i think i know he is a local author from Skipton & i belive he has written a few book's on the local line's around the north west.

 

Simon.

 

Thanks for that Simon I,ve got that one I was worried that there was another source of info that I hadn't tapped into. You can never have enough photos.

 

Jamie

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post-6824-126704982807_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Well RM Web being down did have unforseen consequences. There was nothing better to do on Sunny afternoons than to go outside in the snow and build baseboards. This is the board that will have Greyhound Bridge on it. What you can see are the two levels of ply, the river and the track base separated by 6 spacers. these are placed where the bridge piers will be and the bridge will be built round them. Once the track bed has been properly marked out then most of the top layer of ply will be cut away leaving just the track bed. The bridge girders will then be attached to the side of the track bed. There are two more pieces of 5 x 1 to go in between the ply layers which will form the basis for the river bank retaining walls. As you can see there was snow on the ground.

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Jamie,

 

I have tried to obtain a copy of the Donald Binn's Book.

 

Is it still in print?

 

 

Regards

 

Gerard

 

I'm not sure. Try someone like Nick Tozer books or Bill Hudson. When you get it let me know and I'll send you a correctyion list for some of the photo captions. About 10 of the captions are muddled up but they don't relate to the lancaster area, mainly around Giggleswickj and Clapham where I grew up. Donald Binns has published a lot of books and the one you wnat is the one with the yellow cover. If you have trouble I'll get you the ISBN. Mine is very well thumbed as I used it to get info for Long Preston.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

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At last some real progress. The first three baseboards went to the clubroom last night and I managed to get quite a bit of cork trackbase laid before I ran out of weights. The next step is to lay the Templot printouts on the cork before starting actual tracklaying. This will start with the bridge over the river from the fiddle yard joint then work round through the station area. No pictures yet possibly in a week or two when there are some rails to show.

 

Jamie

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Not too much progress on the baseboards at the club as my long sufferring other half is recovering from a knee replacement, however being confined to barracks does have advantages as I have had the chance to spend the afternoons making more baseboards. As a result I now have 5 of the main run of boards made. 3 more to go to have the full run. It't nice to see it taking shape. If all goes well I should get the first rails laid at the club on Friday evening. That will be a milestone. I must get on with the electric units as I need one of the 60' long motor vehicles to test clearances before I fix the platforms.

 

Jamie

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A good day was had by all. SWMBO is away for a week so I spent most of the day, with a colleague, at the clubrroms tracklaying. Good progres was made and the complete checkrailed curve on what will become Greyhound bridge was finished. We then put a Kitley 0-6-0 and a Compound on and test ran them to check clearances. I wasn't sure whther a rather stiff 0-6-0 would go round the tight checkrailed curve, and I wanted to measure the overhang at the corner of the front bufferbeam on the compound. Power was applied and they both ran beautifully. Still a long way to go but it's great to actually be able to run a train at this early stage. I intend to keep test running each section of track as we build it.

 

We were also kept interested by the sight of 67's pulling Mk4 sets and 91's through Westgate all day, either due to work on the overhead or diversions. It made a change and it's nice to be able to watch the real thing whilst modelling.

 

Jamie

 

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A general view of the Greyhound Bridge curve. the start of the branch to Lancaster Castle is visible in the foreground. Both tracks are checkrailed throughout so have been laid in C & L components. On the check rail I've used 2 chairs then miss one for the running rail, then 1 chair, miss 2 on the check rail. remembering to cut of the bolt heads on the inside face.

 

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The curve slightly closer up showing the checkrails. We are going to try chemically blackening them so that the colour doesn't come off when we clean the rails. Now we've got all the half chairs to fit to make it look right.

 

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This shows the outswing on the buffer beam. When we measured it there was actually slighly more outswing on the 12 wheel 60' diner that's behind it. This enables us to work out exactly where the bridge girders can be placed.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

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Jamie,

 

I hope your other half is on the mend. Nice to see you making progress again. Is the Kirtley 0-6-0 the Slaters' kit?

 

Geoff.

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Jamie,

 

I hope your other half is on the mend. Nice to see you making progress again. Is the Kirtley 0-6-0 the Slaters' kit?

 

Geoff.

 

Thanks, yes she is on the mend and away for the week hence much modelling. The Kirltley is the Slater's kit which makes up into a nice model. It just needs some butchery around the front and rear driving wheels to provide clearances for 32mm gauge. I'm sure it must have been designed for scaleseven. However it works well and tender pick ups help. I was concerned how it would work on the checkrailed curve as it is fairly stiff.

 

Jamie

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The Kirltley is the Slater's kit which makes up into a nice model. It just needs some butchery around the front and rear driving wheels to provide clearances for 32mm gauge. I'm sure it must have been designed for scaleseven.

 

That's a nice model but I have a vague recollection that the kit actually pre-dates the ScaleSeven standards. It's probably just a result of trying to squeeze narrow gauge wheels into a finely balanced model <g>.

Adrian

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That's a nice model but I have a vague recollection that the kit actually pre-dates the ScaleSeven standards. It's probably just a result of trying to squeeze narrow gauge wheels into a finely balanced model <g>.

Adrian

 

That was the problem. If it was designed directly from the original drawings there would have been clearnace problems. The problem areas are the smokebox saddle, which by the time you have put the wrappers on is very close to the inner faces of the wheels, also the area inside the cab around the firebox and toolboxes. The Compound, which probab;y dates from the same era had the same problem inside the cab.

 

Jamie

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That was the problem. If it was designed directly from the original drawings there would have been clearnace problems. The problem areas are the smokebox saddle, which by the time you have put the wrappers on is very close to the inner faces of the wheels, also the area inside the cab around the firebox and toolboxes. The Compound, which probab;y dates from the same era had the same problem inside the cab.

 

It was things like this that pushed me into ScaleSeven, having the wheels in the right place just made it easier for building loco's. Fortunately I hadn't much stock so it wasn't difficult to change.

 

Adrian

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Just a quick update.

 

3 more boards have been built and we now have the full length of the main line thought the station area. The trackbed and cork have been laid and the Templot printouts pasted down.

Tracklaying is now continuing from the west end through the platforms. The sweeping curve through the station area is showing well thanks to Templot.

 

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Looking west from the Ladies Walk end of the layout. In the foreground is the area where Skerton Bridge will carry the A6 and the single track tramway to Morecambe over the line. One problem, the tramway was horse operated till it closed in 1926 and we are having trouble getting a 7mm scale horse to pull the tram. Some form of elecric transmission via the shaft has been suggested but we think that might make the horse a bit lively.

 

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Showing the first law of any layout construction. As soon as a flat surface is created it will fill up. All the construction material and tools at the end of the layout. The curve onto Greyhound bridge with it's checkrails can be seen. All the cosmetic half chairs have now filled th gaps in and it looks well. We are experimenting to try and find a way of colouring the checkrail so that it stays dark after track cleaning but with only limited success.

 

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Looking east along the boards. trackbed and cork are drying on part of the bay platform line. There is a small gap where the printouts appeared to have slighly distorted with the glue. I've drawn the overall grid on all the recent set of boards so we got that area laid and worked backwards and it all seems to be lining up as it should.

 

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Looking West through the single slip that gives access to the Castle branch and Loco shed area. Sods law says that there is a baseboard joint right in the mddle of it so we are going to try cutting it where everything is soldered. If that doesn't work then it's back to the drawing board and possibly make a removeable section of trackbed that the point motors can be attached to. The single slip is key to the operation of the layout, as nearly every movement goes through it one way or another.

 

Jamie

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Just a quick update.

 

 

One problem, the tramway was horse operated till it closed in 1926 and we are having trouble getting a 7mm scale horse to pull the tram. Some form of elecric transmission via the shaft has been suggested but we think that might make the horse a bit lively.

 

Jamie

 

Not a problem Jamie. All the photos I have seen show the horses standing still.

 

Geoff.

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Some more progress. Over the last month track laying has continued and research has also taken great steps forward. A chance meeting at the GOG do at halifax has lead to a planned meeting with two retired enginemen from Green Ayre. I have pregressed my computer knowledge thanks to suggestions on two threads here on RMWeb. I downloaded a CAD program called ProgeCAD as suggested byMartin Wynne and then looked at You Tube and watched 14 video tutorials about Autocad 2008. For years I have struggled to make sense of CAD programs and have never got past first base. Thanks to the two steps mentioned I have now progressed. The reason is that I need to get some artwork done for etchings for the platform canopies and the overhead line equipment. As mentioned I am fortunate enough to have the actual contract drwing for the OLE in my temporary possession so I need to get something sorted out. the folowing pictures sould show the results.

 

GA overhead.pdf

 

This is my first attempt at doing the Warren trusses for the awnings. The lattice section is the centre of the truss (In reality just a series of 3" wide strips riveted in place, the four strips will be bent to form the four angle girders that make up the rest of the truss as in reality with rivets to be punched out from the back. Hopefully this will work. Only time will tell. At this stage I have not sorted out what bits will be etched on what sheet but am just trying to get the different bits of kit drawn.

 

GA Awnings.PDF

 

This is my next attempt which is for the glazing bars for the actual awnings. I intend to have these laser cut in a white plastic material by a firm in York that I talked to at Scaleforum in Wakefield.

 

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This is a not very clear photo of one of the drawings that I am working from. It was done in mid 1907 to specify the gantries that went between the awnings through the platform area. 6 similar ones but of slightly differring lengths and specs as one of them was an anchorage. By sheer good fortune the canopies were drawn in profile and elevation so with a bit of O level geometric construction I was able to sort out the actual dimensions of the structure. From these I drew the above drawning. A an aside it is seen from the varous scribbled notes on the drawings that there were several ammendments as the contract progressed.

 

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Finally just to check I printed the drawing out at scale size and glued the bits of paper together. the effect looks OK so I now need to send the artwork off to the firm.

 

I need to do some more work on the artwork for the trusses as they need bits chopping out where the supports are going to go and tabs for joing the bits together but I have got the basics done.

 

Meantime there has been steady progress with track construction.

 

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Here the points at the east end of the platforms are taking shape with a crossover leading right into the bay platfrom and the lead from the down line across a diamond crossing into the coal yard. At the exit from the coal yard there is the standard Midland arrangement of a double slip to provide protection for the main line.

 

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And finally here is the statutory inspection of new track with the Northern district Superintendent viewing the works from the comfort of his saloon.

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Further progress is being made and those points at the east end are now ready for tie bars, just the diamond crossing to do before we move onto the next board on the curve to the fiddle yard. However the progress has made me think carefully about where the Overhead Line portals are going to be placed. the problem is that this area at the east end was straight on the prototype is on the start of the transition to a 6' radius bend on the model. I've found a way to use Templot to plot the positions of the gantries and the contact wires. The pantographs are going to have a contact width of 27mm and as I don't want de-wirements I've got to keep the stagger within those limits. This caused a problem as it meant I would have to put a portal in the middle of this point comlex that would have to spand two main lines plus the two headshunts for the bay platform and the4 coal yard. The Midland would have made a lattice portal for a long span like that but the only lattice was at the other end of the station so a big lattice portal wouldn't look right on the model.

 

No using the 'shove timbers' feature on Templot I've managed to find a place where I can put a 43' portal that could be done with some channel and two wooden posts, and the contact wire stagger still keep just within limits. All in all I will have to put about 3 extra portals in this area to cope with the curvature but at least they will all be of the right design for that part of the layout. Hopefully in about 2 years I will be able to show some pictures of the area with the portals erected.

 

Jamie

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As well as the work on the baseboards and tracklaying, structure modelling is ongoing and the main station building is progresing well. It is now possible to see it's full extent.

 

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The whole structure is about 5'6" long and is being built by John Patrick. The basic dimensions were worked out by comparing it to a model of a Ford Cortina (Mk 1) , one of which appears in one of our photographs of the building before it was demolished. When I eventually obtained accurate drawings our dimensions were only out by about 2mm.

 

At the east end of the building is a magnificent 'Gents' with attached coal store.

 

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The detailing is very good with here the corbelling and ridge tiles whicha re made from resin castings in 4" lengths. The chimney's are also castings, there are 7 of them in total on the up and down platform buildings.

 

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The buildings are mainly made from artists mounting card applied in various layers. Here is a view of the platform side which is not quite as advanced.

 

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Finally a shot with a Slater's Cattle wagon posed in front of the atation to give some idea of relative size. One problem is storage and transport. the building naturally splits into 4 sections for transport and John has shown great dedication to his stask of providing safe storage as the storage crates are made from wine boxes. His willingness to sacrifice his liver to the good of the layout is much appreciated.

 

post-6824-127762536795_thumb.jpg

 

Jamie

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Great exitement, after several iterations to the artwork the platform canopies appeared this week courtesy of York Modelmaking. cut in 0.75mm romark they came very well packed.

 

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I couldn't wait to see if they went together as well as I hoped but here is the result.

 

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This is the first only another 19 to go , then add glazing and finials, flashing etc. Hopefully in the next couple of days the first test etches for teh supporting girders will appear from Birmingham. meanwhile the tracklaying is progressing well.

post-6824-128108138485_thumb.jpg

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Finally after seven attempts I managed to get the artwork right for a test etch and Grainge and Hodder (No connection) have been very patient an helpful. I was really chuffed when the forst test etch came htrough the post today.

 

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Now comes the hard part, punching out the rivets and soldering it all together. This test etch is 9" by 6" and if everything works then a full 18" by 12" production etch will be done with all the other parts needed for the various Overhead line structures, the loco shed windows and the main bridge girder rivet detail. I've got a lot of those bits drawn but am still working out the quantities and how many of each to pack onto the etch.

 

The pillars for the awnings are being cast in resin from a brass master. The first two have been successfully cast witha length of M2 threaded rod though them. This gives them strength and makes them easy to bolt down to the baseboard. Tracklaying continued tonight and my Pennsy O2a ran right rhough the pointwork at the east end on both main lines wothout trouble. We used a load of leads with croccodile clips to connect the 1" brass screws which are acting as droppers. It ws good to see the loco go well through the diamond crossing.

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A very good evening. After marvelling that my ancient brain could get itself roind CAD and producing tghe artwork for an etch I finally sat down and started to make something from the etch, namely a warren truss that will support the platform awnings.

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The first job was to punch out the rivet heads. Tony Bond's patent rivet punch worked a trat and here are some of the first bits done. The longditudinals will fold into L girders, four of which were rivetted to the lattice work to form an H girder.

 

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The next tricky bit was how to solder the 5 pieces together. I decided to use solder paste and wooden clothes pegs. The first two girders were just held with the pegs but when i came to the second set I needed to put two bits of strip wood down the centre and then clamp it all together with the pegs. Next time I'll do all four L girders at one go using this method.

 

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At last the first truss. It still needs cleaning up but is incredibly strong and light (presumably like the original. I didn't put a scale in nthe photos but the original was 12" high, 6" wide and 22' long. This is 7mm high and 154 long.

 

It is a very satisfying feeling to see my furst bit of etched brass work complete, just 21 more like this, and 20 shorter ones for the front of the awnings to go as well as the brackets and OHLE attachments. Time for a beer.

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I've just sat down after 3 days humping baseboards around as I've had the use of my church since Thursday. As well as putting up part of Long Preston for a bit of fettling before it's final outing it was mainly to put up all the baseboards that exist for Green Ayre. This has been a very useful exercise and we have learnt several lessons. The first day was mainly taken up with joining the first three boards of the front run of boards, Row A) onto the main line boards (Row B.) Then on Friday The station buildings arrived and we started a surveying exercise to plot exactly where they were going to fit in relation to the track so that I can start work on the awnings, which will be fixed to the baseboards.

 

I wasn't sure how we could produce a template for the platforms and a roll of lining paper was suggested. However we discovered a large roll of Label stock paper that had been donated and not used and spread 12' of that out over the station area. Wax crayons (courtesy of the church toddlers group) were used to produce a brass rubbing of the track plan and then John Patrick's magnificent station buildings were unpacked and placed carefully in position.

 

Here you can see what I mean.

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In the background the mock up for the platforms together with the prototype awning can be seen. sitting across the tracks. The brass rubbing can also ben seen together withe the board joints. The idea is to draw the platforms and building well's etc onto the label stock. then cut it up into individual pieces for the boards, then peel the backing off and stick it onto 3mm ply which can then be cut out as the platforms.

 

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Here is the station viewed from the platform side which the public won't see.

 

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After we'd finished brass rubbing and positioning the station we marked in the platforms, awning pillars, the buildings on the Up pltform and the station forecourt. I also went round the layout and surveyed in all the Overhead line stanchions, making sure that I'd got the wire stagger correct.

 

post-6824-128300446161_thumb.jpg

 

After doing all the surveying we couldn't resist playing trains so connected up all the droppers on 4 boards with croccodile clips attached to the end of the 1" brass screws and ran a mixed cattle train together with an inspection saloon. I(It was the first loco and stock crate that I could reach in the wardrobe. Dave Tanner took some video and the results are now on facebook (Jamie Guest if you want to look). All in asll a very good few days work. No back to the grindstone of tracklaying in the coal yard on the new boards.

 

While it was up wa attached 7 of the 9 boards from the Long Preston Fiddle Yard as it was my intention to reuse it. The boards felt very old and heavy and after discussion I took the decision that I am going to dismantle them and build a new fiddle yard. It will be made using the same methods as the rest of the layout and will incorporate several quirks in the track plan to cope with the various traffics on Lancaster.

 

Jamie

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Very nice Jamie, nice sweeping curves and an excellent building

 

Looking forward to seeing some more trackwork - I expect you are toobiggrin.gif

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Very nice Jamie, nice sweeping curves and an excellent building

 

Looking forward to seeing some more trackwork - I expect you are toohttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

 

 

Yes so am I, this is just the main line circuit. Next it's the coal yard and then the Loco shed complex. The sweping curves are all down to Templot.

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

Jamie

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