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jamie92208

Lancaster Green Ayre - Let there be light, and there was.

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Well this is progress, 2 updates in the same month but things are coming on well. the fiddle yard is now taking shape with only 6 more points to be built, plus a lot of track to be laid. However last night a milestone was achieved and the firtst through siding (Down yard 1) was laid and at last the main line circuit was complete. Only 9 more to go plus the light engine shuttle loop in the centre. However other things are progressing as work is starting on assembling the etchings that will make up Greyhound Bridge. This is the third bridge over the River Lune that the Midland built. This replaced one from 1889 and was built in 1911 and was constructed by Butlers of Stanningley in Leeds. It closed to rail traffic in 1966 and now carries the northboubd carriageway of the A6 which is set on a concret deck, perched on top of the original plate girders, The bridge carried the catenary for the OHLE on very distinctive arched supports. I spent two years pestering Lancashire County Council highways department and eventually they sent me copies of the original plans of the bridge. (As an aside, Network Rail wouldn't even confirm or deny that they had any drawings on security grounds.)

This ws probably the most useful of the 20 drawings that they sent me.

greyhound portal.pdf

Here is photo of the bridge as it looks today. The small bits of plate rivetted either side of one of the T girders are the reamins of one of the OHLE supports.

post-6824-0-67922300-1323555335_thumb.jpg

These were then turned into etches the artwork for which is here. Deciding how to do them was tricky but built on the experience I gained doing the latform awnin gs which were similar warrren trusses, but bent.

portal artwork.PDF

and the end result is these bits of brass.

post-6824-0-03036900-1323554459_thumb.jpg

I finally took the plunge and tried to assemble a set. The first of 10.

After nearly two hours of cursing and burnt finger ends this was the result. They still need a bit of cleaning up but surprised me by how strong they were.

post-6824-0-34384600-1323554479_thumb.jpg

and from another angle

post-6824-0-93490800-1323554437_thumb.jpg

I'm now waiting for Tony to get the first set of girders done so that these can be soldered onto them and tried in position.

It's good to see some signs of progress at last.

Edited by jamie92208
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Last night I hadn't got access to a photo of the bridge with it's catenary supports in place. (SWMBO was playing games on facebook or something equally important). Anyway here is the photo that I wanted to upload. Copyright Robert Jackson but used with permission. It shows the arches on the right.

post-6824-0-49483600-1323614209_thumb.jpg

I hope this makes it a bit clearer what we are trying to achieve. It also shows the longest OHLE gantry in the Lancaster area. (There were some longer ones in Morecambe station). Fortunately I've got the plans for it so am starting the artwork for a one off etch for that one and one that is just about above the photographers head. The signal on the left was interesting as in the period I'm modelling it had an underslung lower quadrant signal. (I just hope it was above head height otherwise some unsuspecting passenger could ahve had a sore head when it was pulled off.)

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208
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Jamie the curved catenaries demonstrate Castigliano's neutral axis bending theory - and he knew what was what with the bending of beams etc. Tricky looking double slip at the platforms end - can't remember have we got it in? And, a lot of obvious point rodding. There are just a few coal wagons in the yard. Hope to be in Wed eve.

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Jamie the curved catenaries demonstrate Castigliano's neutral axis bending theory - and he knew what was what with the bending of beams etc. Tricky looking double slip at the platforms end - can't remember have we got it in? And, a lot of obvious point rodding. There are just a few coal wagons in the yard. Hope to be in Wed eve.

 

Never heard of Castigliano but I'm sure that you'll fill the gaps in my knowledge base. The double slip didn't appear till the mid 30's when the station was resignalled. We've just got a single slip at that point. It's right across a baseboard joint. See you tomorrow.

Edited by jamie92208

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Dooh; yes, so it is, I remember cutting it for the bb joint, I think i am going to ask Ray to turn a column for the footbridge, this then will be a master to cast from - as in Johns previous productions; John has already offered to do the castings. So, I think things are starting to move along however slowly to start with. Castigliano, he was a mathematician and Physicist during the latter part of the Victorian age, his elastic beam theory sorta went like this:-

If a material is homogeneous and behaves in a linear elastic manner we can derive a nonlinear second order differential equation that when solved through the double integration method can give a solution deflection as a function of x. We must assume dv / dx = 0 relative to the length of the beam in the x-axial direction.

2fc5f491937ca94b7d762f93bff53011.png

M = the internal moment in the beam E = the material's modulus of elasticity I = the beam's moment of inertia computed about the neutral axis v = deflection of beam; now does that make it any clearer?

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Thanks supersonic, that certainly cleared things up for me! I must remember that equation, though it may be tricky to work into a conversation.

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OK, sorry guys - just me showing off on Mr Casty - what he said in a nutshell is when a 'beam' is bent the inner face is under compression and the outer is in tension, therefore, somewhere internally there must be a point or axis which is neither under tesile nor compressive loading ie neutral, qed.

Jamie, thank you for the photo's the columns are shown clearly - yes, they are square, with an element of fluting at the top which I did not see from the drawings. The signal at the platform end; had the signal box been moved away from there by the 30's then?

Ohmisterporter; it is easy to work into a conversation - you just need a whiteboard, 5 coloured pens, an overhead projector and a pa system; does this help sir?

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OK, sorry guys - just me showing off on Mr Casty - what he said in a nutshell is when a 'beam' is bent the inner face is under compression and the outer is in tension, therefore, somewhere internally there must be a point or axis which is neither under tesile nor compressive loading ie neutral, qed.

 

The things you learn on here ! - I only just coped with Mr Hooke (and we aren't talking Zulu wars) in my physics days ..

 

had the signal box been moved away from there by the 30's then?

 

The LMS provided a single cabin to replace two Midland cabins (I think), but Jamie will no doubt be along to correct me - the LMS structure was on the platform - Lancaster Green Ayre

 

Edit - to provide a link to a photo.

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The things you learn on here ! - I only just coped with Mr Hooke (and we aren't talking Zulu wars) in my physics days ..

 

 

 

The LMS provided a single cabin to replace two Midland cabins (I think), but Jamie will no doubt be along to correct me - the LMS structure was on the platform - http://www.flickr.co...p28/5971359808/

 

Edit - to provide a link to a photo.

 

yes we all learn surprising things from Uncle T. We went to Crich last week to do some research and I had a lesson in cliud formations as we crawled down the M1.

 

As to the signal cabins. There used to be two, Lancaster North and South at the West and East ends of the station. I can't remember which was which, but have the info somewhere. One was on the Down platform at the West end and one by the riverbank on the up side at the East end. These were combined in, I think 1933 but haven't got my Chronolgy handy, and a new cabin constructed at the east end of the station on the down platform. At the same time the single slip was changed to a double and the signalling altered to allow passenger trains to reverse in either platform. This allowed the electrics to avoid two trips to the east end crossover in each cycle of journeys. Until 1933 only light engines could come off shed, reverse in the down platform and then set off towards Morecambe and Heysham. We are modelling it in 1923 so I don't need to do the triple underhung gantry under the canopy on the up platform.

 

Jamie

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2fc5f491937ca94b7d762f93bff53011.png

 

therefore v = Mx^2/(2EI)) + Cx + D I think

 

Some lovely pieces of Brass

 

Simon

Edited by (The) Youth

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jamie, I will need some space on the next etch you produce; the columns on the footbridge now allow themselves to be produced in etch form and soldered up. I wonder also about producing the bannister spindles as an etch, there are many and I do not have the patience to carve matchsticks to shape. Thanks to all contributers for the enlightement on the chronology of the station buildings et-al.

 

Tans

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As to the signal cabins. There used to be two, Lancaster North and South at the West and East ends of the station.

 

Do you have any diagrams you can share ?

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Do you have any diagrams you can share ?

 

Unfortunately the diagrams that I have are copyright but I found them both on the web, the links are here:-

 

Lancaster North (Which was at the west end and slightly to the south of South)

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=138

 

Lancaster South

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=138

 

The 1950's combined one is here:-

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=136

 

 

Things were slightly different in the 1920's but I;ve got most of the info I need from photos and a copy of the 2 chain plan that was in the set of engineering drawings that I am looking after.

 

As I'm reusing my Modratec lever frame from Long Preston I've replanned it and can manage the station area on a 24 lever frame. Harold at Modratec has redsigned the locking for me and I'll probably show the modifications to the frame either on here or in a spearate thread.

 

Doing the frame is one of my winter projects because I want to get the control panel done before I start wiring the layout. I've got the instructions and the new locking bars and tappets from Harold so I just need to get on with it. At the moment I'm too busy doing the bridge supports in etched brass. Pictures to follow soon.

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208

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jamie, I will need some space on the next etch you produce; the columns on the footbridge now allow themselves to be produced in etch form and soldered up. I wonder also about producing the bannister spindles as an etch, there are many and I do not have the patience to carve matchsticks to shape. Thanks to all contributers for the enlightement on the chronology of the station buildings et-al.

 

Tans

 

Noted uncle T.

 

Jamie

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Unfortunately the diagrams that I have are copyright but I found them both on the web, the links are here:-

 

Lancaster North (Which was at the west end and slightly to the south of South)

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=138

 

Lancaster South

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=138

 

The 1950's combined one is here:-

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=136

 

 

Things were slightly different in the 1920's but I;ve got most of the info I need from photos and a copy of the 2 chain plan that was in the set of engineering drawings that I am looking after.

 

Jamie

 

Hello Jamie,

 

the Lancaster South connection takes you the North box as well. Looking a nice job up to now.

 

OzzyO.

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Unfortunately the diagrams that I have are copyright but I found them both on the web, the links are here:-

 

Lancaster North (Which was at the west end and slightly to the south of South)

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=138

 

Lancaster South

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=138

 

The 1950's combined one is here:-

http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=136

 

Thanks Jamie - and to prove I read them, here's the correct link for the South cabin http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=139 :P

 

I've spotted at least one mistake in the diagrams, and that's excluding the 1950 (on South) date !

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Thanks Jamie - and to prove I read them, here's the correct link for the South cabin http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=139 :P

 

I've spotted at least one mistake in the diagrams, and that's excluding the 1950 (on South) date !

 

Thanks Jamie - and to prove I read them, here's the correct link for the South cabin http://www.signalbox...rams.php?id=139 :P

 

I've spotted at least one mistake in the diagrams, and that's excluding the 1950 (on South) date !

 

Thanks for that. Let me know what the mistakes are by PM if you can.

 

Jamie

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As promised here are some photos of the attempt to recreate the cross girders that go betwen the bridge piers on greyhound bridge.

post-6824-0-38221500-1324295144_thumb.jpg

This is what we are trying to recreate. there will be 3 sets of piers, 2 with 2 sets of X girders and one with 3 sets,

The X girders start life as part of the etch shown earlier and are then folded up to make channel sections. As some of them overlap the main channels and some sit on top of them I made 1 ectch but put witness marks on the rear face to show where to cut.

post-6824-0-68798900-1324295248.jpg

Here are 3 as they come of the etch and 3 ready folded.

The various plates, (Uncle T tells me they are called doublers) that attach the X girders to the main cross girders.

As they look virtually identical but the angles for the triple set are different to the angles for the double sets I had to sort them out when I cut them from the etch.

post-6824-0-06438900-1324295190_thumb.jpg

post-6824-0-87285700-1324295231_thumb.jpg

I found it necessary to mark the compartments.

Anyway our internet and tv went down on Saturday evening due to a power cut. SWMBO went to bed early so I set to work soldering (Fortunately the power didn't affect our mains power, just the roadside cabinet up the road.) and the next thing I knew it was midnight but this was the result.

post-6824-0-88229300-1324295175_thumb.jpg

 

Though it is all made from folded 0.3mm brass the resulting cage structure is very strong and will easily take a couple of stone in weights. I haven't dared try standing on it myself. I reserve that test for certain parts of horse tram supension units which are at 12" to the foot.

 

Tony Bond is starting work on the caissons and they will then be attached to these asemblies. just 2 more to go then 7 of the OHLE arches and the sub assemblies for the bridge are starting to take shape. (Plenty to keep me busy over Christmas.)

 

Jamie

 

Just as an aside the drawings for the caissons have a note attached. that reads as follows ;" The cylinders may have to be sunk to a greater or less depth than that shown, but in either case the rate per foot given in the schedule of prices is the one that will be paid." It's nice to see that the Midland Railway was still watching the pennies when it awarded the contract to Butlers of Stanningley in 1910.

Edited by jamie92208
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Thanks for that. Let me know what the mistakes are by PM if you can.

 

Jamie

 

Hi Jamie,

 

Nothing that will affect you directly as it's more operational*, the signal reading of the branch, for wrong line arrivals, No.7 in the North box, is shown as slotted from the South box, with no corresponding lever listed in South, probably one of the two spares.

 

* Unless you are building models of the lever frames of course.

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Hi Jamie,

 

Nothing that will affect you directly as it's more operational*, the signal reading of the branch, for wrong line arrivals, No.7 in the North box, is shown as slotted from the South box, with no corresponding lever listed in South, probably one of the two spares.

 

* Unless you are building models of the lever frames of course.

 

Thanks for that. No fortunatley the lever frame will be a custom one for the layout. I just want to make sure that I have all the signals on the layout that were there in the early 20's.

I've also managed to get to my cpoy of Dr John Gough's Midland railway Chronology and can give the dates for the various boxes.

 

Lancaster North SB, Opened 12.3.1899, replacement box with more levers 15-10-1911 (That wuld be when the new Greyhound Bridge opened,) Closed 13.3.1932.

 

lancaster South, opened, prior to 1875, This would be moved and renamed lancaster Green Ayre in 1932 when the signalling alterations took place.

 

 

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208

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Here is the vid from last evenings train run down the centre of the, as yet, unfinished fiddle yard - we are getting there!!!! where ever it is. That was Tuesday 20th Dec 2011, that was. It is not yet exciting, but that was a leap of faith.

:blackeye:

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I've just got back from a good evening tracklaying at the club. The fiddle yard is coming on well with 6 of the through tacks laid and only 5 points left to build. It even looks as if I might have enough recovered track to finish the job without emptying my piggybank.

 

We couldn't resist playing trains once some through tracks were connected and here's a shot taken just before Christmas. Lots of test leads used to conenct up the brass screw droppers but it ran well once we'd cleaned all the muck off the rails.

 

PS I'll upload the photo when the server has settled down.

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208

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Well, yes we laid about 15 feet of track and jamie finished the points. Happy New Year every one!!

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