Lancaster Green Ayre - The Barn Owls have returned.

[jamie92208]

9 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

UK 15mm pipe is an interference fit inside French 16mm pipe and can be soldered as such without an adaptor.

 

Edit: Sorry to normal viewers for the off topic interjection.

Thanks Andy.   Unfortunately it wasn't 15mm pipe but something bigger than that about 17. 4 mm Externally and 14.8 internally.  I ended up putting a short length of 16mm pipe in my Unimat and turning the end down to 14.75 for about 7mm then soldering it to the old Brit Pipe that the pervious owner had fitted in the corner of the shed.   As I've not done a lot of lather work I was quite pleased with my efforts.  My other half can now water her vegetable crop without me putting a hose through the cat flap in the back door.   Thanks again.  

 

Jamie

[Dave Hunt]

5 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

   As I've not done a lot of lather work......

 

 

You'd have to get up a bit of a sweat for that Jamie...

 

Dave

[Andy Hayter]

Watering the veg?  Lucky Bu-----.  Fellow/fellowess

 

We are on a total watering ban.

[jamie92208]

Bit more work today 216 is now in Crimson.  Then later on I painted all the buffer beams in vermillion and also the i side of both sets of loco frames. I even got 216's smokebox painted black.  I've been consulting Jenkinson and Essery Vol 1 and have also asked no 1 son to bri g some more Humbrol no 74 paint out when he comes over later this month.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

Nothing much done today but as I near completion of 216 and 3i82 (The 2F) thoughts are turning as to which loco to build next.   I've enjoyed working on two different ones over the winter.   I've got the following Midland ones to do.   

a) A Gibson 4F, started with most of the tender and loco body well built and the chassis well on the way (An Ebay purchase)

b) A Gibson 2P, Also started and in the same state as the 4F. However it is labelled as an ex LMS one but I was assured by the seller that it was supposed to be a Somerset and Dorset one.  It does seem to have 7' drivers.

c) Another Gibson 2P, mint and boxed and not started.

d) A Slaters compound, mint and boxed, picked up cheaply on the Bring and Buy at a GOG event at Doncaster.  I booked it in and it never even went on the stand.

e) Another 2F, a George Norton one, part built by my late friend Tony Bond to his usual high standard.  

f) A 1P 0-4-4T of some description that looks as if it will need quite a bit of work.

 

There are other kits, lurking on the shelves such as the Andy Beaton 9F, my David Andrews, S & C Claughton, and a certain Finney Duchess which I'm itching to start. However I do really need to get the locos that I need for Lancaster built first.   I definitely need a 2P so will probably have a go at b) and the 4F will be 3877, my old Police collar number so that appeals.   However it was a Toton loco.  I suppose I can always say it's worked through on the empty Cattle Train.

 

A few days ago before I got the chance to get back into the shed, when domestic and jungle taming duties had come first, I actually brought the Finney instructions over to have a drool.

 

Any comments on my choices would be most welcome.

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

27 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

A Gibson 2P, ... labelled as an ex LMS one but I was assured by the seller that it was supposed to be a Somerset and Dorset one.  It does seem to have 7' drivers.

 

 

That seems to teem with ambiguity. As far as I can work out, by the 1920s there was no difference between the S&DJR engines and the corresponding Midland or LMS ones. There were five S&DJR engines that conformed to the 483 Class, Nos. 70 and 71, rebuilt in 1914, and Nos. 67-69, rebuilt in 1921 - all having been built with H boilers. Then there were three standard 2Ps, Nos. 44-46, built new in 1928. So any mention of S&DJR in the description of the Gibson kit is surely a red (or blue) herring. It's either a 483 with 7'0" drivers or a standard 2P with 6'9" drivers.

 

Either way, a 483 would surely be more the thing in the context of LGA?

[jamie92208]

I've just been over to lock up the shed as the rest of the house have gone to bed. Out of interest I dug out the 4F and the Gibson 2P kit.  This is what they look like.

Here's the 4F, It has obviously been dropped at some point as the cab roof is a bit dented and wiggly but there's nothing that a bit of filler won't hide.

The driving wheels aren't fixed in the frames but I can do that fairly quickly and the rods are ready so they can be set up in my master chassis jig.

 

Here's the 2P.   I'd got the 2P's mixed up.   The unstarted one is the alleged ex S & D one but I have measured the driving wheels and they are 7'0 and changing it to right hand drive from left hand should be easy enough.  The seller wasn't entirely truthful in his description and I had bought it via the GOG sales and Wants column.   He brought it to Telford and that's where I saw that it said LMS on the box.  It also didn't have a motor/gearbox as stated in the advert.   He wanted to sell it me in that state for the original asking price.   After a fairly frank and comradely discussion (As the old communist regimes used to say) he went and bought a motor/gearbox and out it in the box with the loco.

 

Anyway here is the actual Midland 2P as it is at the moment.

The main thing that I'll have to sort out is the bogie mounting to allow a decent amount of sideplay.  I've done it on my 990 from the same kit stable so there shouldn't be a problem.   I make the fixing hole into an arc shaped slot and then pivot the bogie from the frame stretcher near the front drivers, with a length of square brass tube.   The other trick that seems to work well is to have the spring above the bogie centre, bear below the bogie axle centre's by building the bogie frame upside down. This will become one of Lancaster's 2P's. I haven't got my list handy at the moment.

 

 

Jamie

Edited August 4, 2019 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

But that 2P has what appears to be a standard LMS tender, per the LMS standard 2P, rather than the Johnson 3250 gal flared-top tender that the 483 Class engines kept from their former lives, when they were rebuilt.

[jamie92208]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

But that 2P has what appears to be a standard LMS tender, per the LMS standard 2P, rather than the Johnson 3250 gal flared-top tender that the 483 Class engines kept from their former lives, when they were rebuilt.

I will have to have a look at that.  I think that I've got a kit for the correct correct style of tender, somewhere.   I'll have to dig it out.   At least I've got the wheels and the frames might even fit.   Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Jamie

[sir douglas]

and theres still 996 to finish off with the lining, backhead fittings and coal

[Dave Hunt]

 Stephen is right that in 1923 you wouldn't have seen that type of tender behind a 483. In fact, you wouldn't have seen one like it at all as it is one of the later LMS 'old standard' tenders.

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

A bit more progress today. Anything to relieve the news from Edgebaston. I had an hour in tbe shed this evening and got the black done on 1 side and the rear of 216's tender. It's starting to look good. 

 

Thanks for all the info about tenders. I did some research. The alleged S & D kit has the straight sided one so that's a no no for me.  Books provided the info that some of the 483's in the higher 500 range had 3500 gallon tenders and after a bit of measuring I came up with the idea of fitting flares to the top and rear after trimming it down.  The idea diesn't work for the 3,250 gallon ones that the lower numbered locos had.  Further delving revealed that none of the higher numbered ones were based anywhere that could have had them working to Lancaster. Fortunately Taff Vale/Dragon do a 3250 gallon kit that they sell separately. It looks as if I will have to bite the bullet.  An email has been sent enquiring about prices. At least I already have the wheels. I have just spent tine researching the spacing of numerals and now have to make up a guide/jig to get the spacings correct.  At least Alcohol for the Methfix transfers isn't a problem over here.  I might even go and quality check some locally produced spirit now.

 

Jamie

Edited August 5, 2019 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

I might even go and quality check some locally produced spirit now.

 

 

May leave a residue?

[jamie92208]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

May leave a residue?

Not some of the stuff that's available here in the Cognac region if you k ow the right people. However there are better uses for Eau de Vie than soaking transfers.

 

Jamie

[Andy Hayter]

And Alcool à brûler at around 2.50€/l is a lot cheaper for things like transfers.

[jamie92208]

Some real progress yesterday. I actually played trains on the layout. An 8 yr old, who'se staying in the village, came up so we went and drove some trains.  Nothing has actually moved on the layout since March so it was a bit of a voyage of discovery. The spiders got a shock as webs started to move and stretch.  However a good time was had.  Young Brandon drove well and we ended up doi g some fault findi g with him driving and me outside the layout observing. He learned to use and read my digital calipers and discovered that a short length of problematic track was 0.5mm tight to gauge.  The Pway soldering iron will be wielded today. 

 

A tender kit has been ordered and I've been researching what number to give to the alleged S & D 2P.  I discovered a spare smokebox plate for 472 but that wasn't rebuilt till Nov 23.  I could perhaps run it as that as apparently it ran with Midland Livery but no cabside herald. That was allocated to Carlisle. The other possibility is 448 which was  Green Ayre loco.

 

Jamie.

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Some real progress yesterday. I actually played trains on the layout. An 8 yr old, who'se staying in the village, came up so we went and drove some trains.  Nothing has actually moved on the layout since March so it was a bit of a voyage of discovery. The spiders got a shock as webs started to move and stretch.  However a good time was had.  Young Brandon drove well and we ended up doi g some fault findi g with him driving and me outside the layout observing. He learned to use and read my digital calipers and discovered that a short length of problematic track was 0.5mm tight to gauge.  The Pway soldering iron will be wielded today. 

 

A tender kit has been ordered and I've been researching what number to give to the alleged S & D 2P.  I discovered a spare smokebox plate for 472 but that wasn't rebuilt till Nov 23.  I could perhaps run it as that as apparently it ran with Midland Livery but no cabside herald. That was allocated to Carlisle. The other possibility is 448 which was  Green Ayre loco.

 

Jamie.

Hi jamie

 

You are allowed to play trains without the supervision of a child.

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi jamie

 

You are allowed to play trains without the supervision of a child.

It's the supervision by SWMBO that's the problem, the presence of a child appears to relax certain other rules.

 

Jamie

[Mike Storey]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

It's the supervision by SWMBO that's the problem, the presence of a child appears to relax certain other rules.

 

Jamie

 

Nail on head!!! I was "allowed" to play with my trains for nearly three hours, when we had a four-year-old here one afternoon last week, along with his father who is a secret train fanatic enthusiast.... quite likes trains.

[jamie92208]

I managed to get back into the shed this afternoon as a means of escaping a house guest watching a Leeds United Match.  I only used to watch that shower when I got paid time and a half to endure them.    Anyway after earning brownie points by mending the gazebo I had a go at putting the numbers on the tenders.  Having perused Midland Style and Jenks & Essery Vol 1 it turns out that there are very specific rules for the spacing of the numbers especially when the figure one is involved..  My first job was to draw up a template using the guidelines as one of the locos is 216.   Here it is using the correct spacing.

The idea was to cut these off above the second line.  However spot the mistake.  I realised as soon as I put the  first numbers on that the 2F should be 3182 so the numbers needed respacing to be correct.   There are 2 of each as each side of the tender is different, especially 216.   Anyway after I'd sorted through my stock of transfers and found a mix of Methfix and Pressfix, I got to work.

Here the template is taped to the side of the tender at the correct height.   The figures were then positioned

It does help to use an alcohol based solvent with methfix, I discovered the hard way that water doesn't work when I got the two sort mixed up.  I used Alcohol de brulee in the end as we have good stocks of it as a cleaning agent.

Anyway this is the end result

They are on both sides, I promise, you can trust me I used to be a policeman.    Anyway I was quite pleased with that and then found my old bow pen and some Humbrol 74 and had some time practising.  Hopefully I should get some lining done tomorrow.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

A bit further on.   I've got a lot of the black done on 216 and also some of the cab interior.  I've even managed to get the thin black lines round the buffer beams.   I tried using the bow pen for lining today with mixed results.  I ended up washing it all off with white spirit.   Has anyone got any tips on using a bow pen or can they point me towards an article.  I did try a search on the site and that was sort of useful as the Bob Moore pen was mentioned.   I may have one somewhere so will have a look for it.

 

Jamie

[lezz01]

The answer to the bow pen is the same as "how do you get to Carnegie Hall?" Jamie. "Practice man, practice".  Sadly it's the same answer for the Bob Moore pen as well although it is easier than a bow pen. With the BM it was advised that you always use a fresh tin of paint, which is total nonsense, and thin it with lighter fluid, which isn't, as it seems to work much better than enamel thinners for some unknown reason.

Set the gap on a Bow pen with a piece of plasticard of the appropriate thickness so that it just holds it but will come out with the lightest of pulls. Load it with an eye dropper or pipette  from the back, don't dip it. Keep the pen as upright as possible and draw the line in one go. Do not stop and start in the middle of the line as you will get a blob if you do. Place the workpiece in a cradle of high density foam wide enough so you can rest the heel of your hand on and use a steel rule wrapped in  2 or 3 layers of masking tape so that only one edge has no tape on it for a couple of millimeters so that the metal is not touching the work.  All of which is why I use a gold pen and a black marker and yes I know it's not supposed to be gold but the thing is once you satin varnish it all afterwards it looks yellow and not gold. It's all just a matter of what works best for you mate. I hope this helps but as I said at the beginning, above all it's a matter of practice, practice and yet more practice.  

Regards Lez.

[lezz01]

If you don't have a copy already Jamie, Modelling Railways Illustrated Handbooks No.3 "Painting and Lining In the Smaller Scales" by Steve Barnfield is a great help as it gives you a step by step guide to using a bow pen and other methods of lining.

regards Lez.

[Dave Hunt]

As I wrote in a previous post Jamie, the method that works for me is to do the yellow first using sellotape masking, bow pen, brush etc. with matt paint but only to establish the inner edge of the yellow (i.e., the edge next to the crimson lake) neatly and not being too bothered about how neat the other edge is. When that is well and truly dry do the edge of the black with a fine Rotring pen. Once that is dry, paint up to the black lines with a fine brush and black paint before lightly varnishing over the lot. Boiler bands are done by painting tracing paper matt yellow, ruling on the black using Rotring, cutting out with a scalpel and tacking on using dots of Evostick at the ends. Once in place go over with varnish so that it runs underneath by capillary action and effectively glues the bands in place.

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

Not a lot of progress to report as we have had family visiting.   However young Ryan (7 yrs) did run some trains and enjoyed it.   We also built an Airfix Spitfire together and he painted it and I showed him how to put transfers on.   I was very impressed with his competence and how he picked up the transfer process very quickly using the second hand on my watch to see whether they were "slippy slidy".   He also picked up that as the warm water cooled down we needed to leave them in for a longer time and easily worked out 35 and then 40 seconds on my watch.   A joy to work with him.  Next year I hope to introduce him to soldering.   He particularly liked red engines and asked for them by number when I asked him which train he wanted to run next.   Despite the fact that he's a Sheffield Wednesday fan there is hope for him.

 

Anyway as to progress on the locos.  I have had a very kind off from one of my model railway group friends.  He has offered to spend a day, teaching me how to line using a bow pen and , if I can find it, a Bob Moore lining pen.   I've even managed to locate and buy a can of lighter fuel.   I went into the local Tabac and asked in my best O level French for some "Essence de Lumiere".  This was met by blank looks but fortunately I saw a can of it on a shelf and pointed it out. Believe it or not t was labelled lighter sprit.

 

Anyway I'm off over to Richards on Thursday for the lining masterclass.

 

Jamie