Woodhead Electric Loco Liveries

[edcayton]

We had a member's slide show tonight, and one guy showed some of the Woodhead route. I'm unclear as to the liveries; the impression I have is that, at first, the BoBo's were black, and the CoCo's lined green. Then they all seem to have been blue (like the ac electrics?) with the BR crest and small yellow panels before the CoCo's were sold to Holland and the BoBo's became BR blue with double arrows and full yellow ends.

 

It can't possibly be that simple and I'm sure someone here will know. I know Google is my friend, but he/she has not helped on this.

 

Any info gratefully received as all I know on the Woodhad route could fit on the back of the proverbial stamp!

 

Ed

[Gwiwer]

The class 76 or EM1 (Bo Bo) arrived in lined mixed-traffic black which was the BR standard for mixed-traffic steam locos at the time. Class 77 or EM2 (Co Co), which was intended to work the majority of the passenger services, arrived in "Express" lined green again matching the livery of contemporary express passenger steam locos. At the time of delivery these locos would have been working almost exclusively alongside steam and it made sense to have matching liveries.

 

Those 76's which survived long enough gained BR blue but I believe only a single 77 did so.

[charliepetty]

The class 76 or EM1 (Bo Bo) arrived in lined mixed-traffic black which was the BR standard for mixed-traffic steam locos at the time. Class 77 or EM2 (Co Co), which was intended to work the majority of the passenger services, arrived in "Express" lined green again matching the livery of contemporary express passenger steam locos. At the time of delivery these locos would have been working almost exclusively alongside steam and it made sense to have matching liveries.

 

Those 76's which survived long enough gained BR blue but I believe only a single 77 did so.

 

WRONG!

 

Class EM1 / Class 76. Introduced 1951, all in BR Lined Black with Black Roofs & Cycling Lion Emblem. Then BR Mid Brunswick Green, with BR Lion holding wheel, Then with small yellow panels, then some with BR Chromatic Blue (As some DMUs, Hymeks & Class 73) no yellow panels, then some with yellow panels, then all with BR Rail Blue and full yellow cab fronts. Please note all liveried apart from black had a Mid Cream/buff sand coloured roofs.

 

Class EM2 / Never Class 77. Introduced in 1953, Order for 27 (East Coast Mainline-Great Eastern-Woodhead) LNER 1500V Schemes. 7 Only introduced in BR lined mixed traffic black with silver bogies (as 10000/10001 & 10201 and GW Gas Turbines) then BR Dark Brunswick, Cycling Lion Logo and Silver bogies with grey roof, Then all into BR Mid Brunswick lined green (with BR Lion holding wheel emblem), then later with small yellow panels,shortly after this some went into BR Electric Blue (as Classes AL1/2/3/4/5 & Class 73) None were painted BR Blue and except in Black & Early Green had Mid Cream/Buff sand coloured Roofs.

 

All EM1s & EM2s were named after MS&L Steam locomotives, being Greek Gods & Goddesses apart from 27000 ELECTRA. This was I believe the registerd trade mark of Metropolitan Vickers.

 

Charlie Petty: Chairman EM2 Locomotive Society.

[Natalie]

I would generally agree with Charlie's summary. However a few points of contention- namely the actual existence of BR Chromatic blue? No proof/evidence has as yet been uncovered that this was a shade that has ever existed and is believed to be simply rail blue but with small yellow panels.

 

Regarding EM2s and electric blue- Crewe took over the overhauls and painting of these locos when Gorton closed (c1963?)- hence the appearance of electric blue on the EM2s. They also had the lion and wheel emblem. Some photos of the class can be very misleading as to the shade of the blue- there is a shot on flickr by BarkingBill of E27002 at Sheffield Victoria in February 1968 (it is available here) where the blue looks very much like rail blue- although it has small yellow panels and a lion and wheel emblem. Looking at the shot in the link if you compare the blue/grey coach behind and the loco body there is very little- if any at all- difference in the shade of blue. Of course it could be as a result of the film used but I would welcome any comments on the slide. Certainly no records or photos exist of an EM2 with full yellow ends (on either green or blue) and/or double arrow emblems.

 

Has Mr Saxton any thoughts/ records on the subject of EM1/EM2 liveries that might be of help? Finally I am not aware of any class 73 ever carrying electric blue (apart from in preservation). The blue ones (E6007-49) were delivered in rail blue albeit with small yellow ends. This idea of electric blue 73s appears to have been introduced by a certain magazine editor in his later books on the EDs.

[Gwiwer]

All EM1s & EM2s were named after MS&L Steam locomotives, being Greek Gods & Goddesses

 

Not all the EM1's were named. Only a minority. 26000 is named "Tommy" from the reference to British soldiers (IIRC) rather than after any other loco or Greek figure. I am prepared to accept correction on the liveries but have issues with "Chromatic blue" as others do. Never encountered a 76 / EM1 in green and though I don't doubt many exist I cannot recall seeing a colour pic of one either.

 

My initial summary did not set out to detail all the variants; others are far better placed to record those.

[Natalie]

Not all the EM1's were named. Only a minority. 26000 is named "Tommy" from the reference to British soldiers (IIRC) rather than after any other loco or Greek figure. I am prepared to accept correction on the liveries but have issues with "Chromatic blue" as others do. Never encountered a 76 / EM1 in green and though I don't doubt many exist I cannot recall seeing a colour pic of one either.

 

 

As you correctly say, 26000 was named following its spell on NS and was the nickname given to the loco by the Dutch railwaymen in tribute to British soldiers. On return to Britain the name was adopted officially by BR and a plaque under the name commemorates the reasons behind the name.

 

Regarding colour pics of green 76s / EM1 locos here is a shot of 26039 at Sheffield Victoria in July 1965- another of BarkingBill's for you to enjoy. Two or three carried full yellow ends although photos of those are not very common.

 

Here is yet another of BarkingBill- this time it is 26028 at Pensitone in February 1968 this time in (?rail) blue with small yellow ends.

[The Stationmaster]

I have always understood that 26000 was named 'Tommy' by the Dutch railwaymen because it was British, and not after British soldiers or in any way as tribute to them. Obviously the name derived from the nickname used for British soldiers in a number of European countries but that was only its origin - nothing more.

And while I didn't see more than a dozen EM1s they were very definitely in green.

[PaulCheffus]

I would generally agree with Charlie's summary. However a few points of contention- namely the actual existence of BR Chromatic blue? No proof/evidence has as yet been uncovered that this was a shade that has ever existed and is believed to be simply rail blue but with small yellow panels.

 

Regarding EM2s and electric blue- Crewe took over the overhauls and painting of these locos when Gorton closed (c1963?)- hence the appearance of electric blue on the EM2s. They also had the lion and wheel emblem. Some photos of the class can be very misleading as to the shade of the blue- there is a shot on flickr by BarkingBill of E27002 at Sheffield Victoria in February 1968 (it is available here) where the blue looks very much like rail blue- although it has small yellow panels and a lion and wheel emblem. Looking at the shot in the link if you compare the blue/grey coach behind and the loco body there is very little- if any at all- difference in the shade of blue. Of course it could be as a result of the film used but I would welcome any comments on the slide. Certainly no records or photos exist of an EM2 with full yellow ends (on either green or blue) and/or double arrow emblems.

 

Has Mr Saxton any thoughts/ records on the subject of EM1/EM2 liveries that might be of help? Finally I am not aware of any class 73 ever carrying electric blue (apart from in preservation). The blue ones (E6007-49) were delivered in rail blue albeit with small yellow ends. This idea of electric blue 73s appears to have been introduced by a certain magazine editor in his later books on the EDs.

 

 

Hi

 

On one of the Woodhead DVDs (unfortunately I can't remember off hand which one) I have there is a shot of I think 76010 at Penistone with a patch of a lighter blue paint showing by one of the windows. Would this have been the earlier blue?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[edcayton]

I seem to have disturbed something of a hornets' nest! Thanks for all the replies so far guys'n'gals.

I also noted that the EM2's were fitted with Kent clear-view screens on the LH(driver's?) side, but when photographed in Holland had conventional wipers. Were they not a success?

[Ceptic]

Some interesting pics, here, on this site

 

http://www.lner.info...ctric/em1.shtml

 

What livery does the prototype, 6700/1 appear to be in ?. It looks too light to be Black, and too dark to be LNER Apple Green, or photographic Grey.

 

Regards

[The Stationmaster]

Some interesting pics, here, on this site

 

http://www.lner.info...ctric/em1.shtml

 

What livery does the prototype, 6700/1 appear to be in ?. It looks too light to be Black, and too dark to be LNER Apple Green, or photographic Grey.

 

Regards

 

 

According to contemporary sources it was green.

 

 

 

[charliepetty]

As you correctly say, 26000 was named following its spell on NS and was the nickname given to the loco by the Dutch railwaymen in tribute to British soldiers. On return to Britain the name was adopted officially by BR and a plaque under the name commemorates the reasons behind the name.

 

Regarding colour pics of green 76s / EM1 locos here is a shot of 26039 at Sheffield Victoria in July 1965- another of BarkingBill's for you to enjoy. Two or three carried full yellow ends although photos of those are not very common.

 

Here is yet another of BarkingBill- this time it is 26028 at Pensitone in February 1968 this time in (?rail) blue with small yellow ends.

 

 

As far as I know the BR Blue used was painted on the locomotives by Reddish Depot and this was done before BR Blue appeared, I was told by Joe Metcalf, ex Shift Foreman at the depot that the painter 'Mixed his own colours' later though I was told it was an adaptation by Reddish of the Nanking Blue from the Blue Pullmans, these were base at Reddish at that period. If you study lots of photographs there seems to be a difference in the colours between BR Blue & the Reddish Blue then adopted. The way of spotting these loco's is the slightly smaller yellow panel and the BR Lion holding wheel emblem.

[caradoc]

 

Class EM2 / Never Class 77.

 

The EM2s certainly were Class 77, being so designated in 1967. They just (sadly) did not survive in Britain long enough to receive TOPS numbers.

 

When I was growing up in Oxford the Class 76s seemed utterly exotic (whereas Westerns and Hymeks of course were commonplace), and I can remember my first visit to Reddish (in August 1972) as if it was yesterday. Later visits to Guide Bridge, Wath, and Reddish again, cemented my fascination for these locos and their railway. If only there was an electrified preserved line where 26020, and its EM2 big sisters, could work !

Matt

[Pennine MC]

Never encountered a 76 / EM1 in green and though I don't doubt many exist I cannot recall seeing a colour pic of one either.

 

Green EM1 courtesy of Geoff Plumb, who also has a nice clear shot of a blue EM2

[coachmann]

Charlie Petty said :

Only introduced in BR lined mixed traffic black with silver bogies (as 10000/10001 & 10201

Photos taken circa September 1954 during the innaugural electric runs from Sheffield show the EM2 Co-Co electric locos in all-over black including bogies and in bulled up condition. Only two coil springs per bogie side were silver.

 

The Stationmaster :

I have always understood that 26000 was named 'Tommy' by the Dutch railwaymen because it was British, and not after British soldiers or in any way as tribute to them.

No.6000 was returned to England in 1952 and subsequently named Tommy in honour of its work in The Netherlands and in commemoration of the part played by the British Military in the liberation of the Dutch people from the German occupation during the Second War....(E. M. Johnson 'Woodhead, The Electric Railway' - Published by Foxline 2001).

[Andy Y]

Nice collection of images here - EM1s and EM2s

 

This one's started my itch again - http://www.railphotoprints.co.uk/index/detail/600/76025-76010-Torside-210778-RP.jpg.html

[Les Bird]

I do wish people would stop posting links to pictures of Woodhead electrics. It's taken me ages to decide on the GN/GE joint line as the location for my layout. Now I'm wavering again! (Dapol's planned introduction of suitable overhead line equipment hasn't helped either!)

[D605Eagle]

WRONG!

 

Class EM1 / Class 76. Introduced 1951, all in BR Lined Black with Black Roofs & Cycling Lion Emblem. Then BR Mid Brunswick Green, with BR Lion holding wheel, Then with small yellow panels, then some with BR Chromatic Blue (As some DMUs, Hymeks & Class 73) no yellow panels, then some with yellow panels, then all with BR Rail Blue and full yellow cab fronts. Please note all liveried apart from black had a Mid Cream/buff sand coloured roofs.

 

Class EM2 / Never Class 77. Introduced in 1953, Order for 27 (East Coast Mainline-Great Eastern-Woodhead) LNER 1500V Schemes. 7 Only introduced in BR lined mixed traffic black with silver bogies (as 10000/10001 & 10201 and GW Gas Turbines) then BR Dark Brunswick, Cycling Lion Logo and Silver bogies with grey roof, Then all into BR Mid Brunswick lined green (with BR Lion holding wheel emblem), then later with small yellow panels,shortly after this some went into BR Electric Blue (as Classes AL1/2/3/4/5 & Class 73) None were painted BR Blue and except in Black & Early Green had Mid Cream/Buff sand coloured Roofs.

 

All EM1s & EM2s were named after MS&L Steam locomotives, being Greek Gods & Goddesses apart from 27000 ELECTRA. This was I believe the registerd trade mark of Metropolitan Vickers.

 

Charlie Petty: Chairman EM2 Locomotive Society.

Hi Charlie, did any of the EM2s get electric blue with full yellow ends? (could have been mistaken for BR blue)

Jim

[SRman]

 

If only there was an electrified preserved line where 26020, and its EM2 big sisters, could work !

Matt

 

 

It's called "The Netherlands"!!!!!!

[charliepetty]

Hi Charlie, did any of the EM2s get electric blue with full yellow ends? (could have been mistaken for BR blue)

Jim

 

Only 3 EM2's I believe carried Electric Blue, as in the photos already published on this thread, no EM2s had Full Yellow Ends. Although an Electric Blue one ran in Holland.

 

Crewe did such a cheap repaint, re Electric blue that when the nameplates were removed they had Green underneath!

 

Charlie

[D605Eagle]

Only 3 EM2's I believe carried Electric Blue, as in the photos already published on this thread, no EM2s had Full Yellow Ends. Although an Electric Blue one ran in Holland.

 

Crewe did such a cheap repaint, re Electric blue that when the nameplates were removed they had Green underneath!

 

Charlie

Thanks Charlie, nothing like having an expert at hand

[edcayton]

What is the story with the Kent clear-view screens please?

 

Ed

[coachmann]

Distance lends enchantment and the Woodhead electrics must be more popular today than they ever were when they were running. Only in the final months of the through route did people start to sit up and notice, but by that time, the rest of the BR rail system was also less attractive anyway. At my age, modelling BR blue on look-alike merry go round trains would be pretty dull, but black electrics hauling blood & custard stock plus the last vestiges of teak does have some merit......just .

[trisonic]

If you have an exGER mainline model you can have them running between London's Liverpool Street and Shenfield where they were tested also.

 

Best, Pete.

[great central]

I believe there is a book in progress, using a similar foormat to the Yeadon's LNER loco books, after all the EM1s were as much LNER locos as Peppercorn pacifics (dons tin helmet and ducks)

 

For all fans of Woodehad stuff, Nottingham show, next March, will have layouts in 2mm, 4mm and 7mm.