Ressaldar Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hang on in there Jordan, do it at your pace and how you see it will work, if it does not, for whatever reason, then there is a cauldron of advice waiting to be given by all on here to help you out. regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 ... there is a cauldron of advice waiting ... A cauldron..?!?! I'm not sure I want things to get that heated... we're only on Page 2 yet...!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (which ends are A and B anyway on a 14, anyone know?) The longer bonnet section, with the engine in it, was the front - so unusually the cab door was also forward ! jackshaft to the rear. Though it was designed to be driven both ways. I think I would opt to split the cranks, put a fraction of play in the 2nd axle (center of 0-6-0) and drive the rear axle if possible (front if not) depends if you can hide the motor. Whatever - the loco will need some balancing weights The center of gravity on the 4mm makes it try to become an 0-4-0. Haven't the builders of Vine Street built one of these 7mm Cl.14 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 ....how to go about making jointed rods... Hi Ian, PM sent.... :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer1027 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hi Jordan, only just found this new thread of yours . Class 14 great stuff Looking forward to this mate. Keep the positive vibes and all will come good in the end. The same as your class 22 , that was EXELLENT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ah, welcome back Rob!!:icon_wave: I think the 'Hydraulics Gang' is about all here now, then???:icon_lol: Due to an "Offer I can't Refuse" from Ian (Nortonian), the results of which will be posted here as and when, I have made a sooner-than-expected move to the body... some work has been done today but you'll have to excuse the pics which were taken on my "No Expense Met" Phone... Starting with the footplate, this needs a couple of long folds of a strip of brass barely more than 1mm wide, along each edge. Guess who hasn't got any bending bars...:icon_redface: However I do have some long strips of steel, so with the aid of a couple of clamps and my bench vice, the folds were made without trouble. Whereas the Class 22 was mostly flat panels, there's a fair bit of 'brass origami' on the 14. Next I tackled the end steps, which are specific to each end. Here's a pic of two just off the etch, and two folded up. The individual steps will be added later, once these parts are in place. The Buffer Beams are made up of several layers. The one at the A end is thicker than the B end (to do with weight balance I should imagine), so there is a brass facing etch (with rivets to press out) and nickel silver layers behind; two at the A end and one at the B. Strangely although these layers should be symetrical, they aren't, and needed fitting behind the brass layer the 'wrong' way around, with the hole for the Vacuum brake pipe on the wrong side. This makes no difference whatsoever as the hole for that pipe isn't on the brass layer at all !!! Below, the thicker A end Beam is on the left; the two layers for the B end on the right before sweating together... While the going was good, I soldered the beams to the footplate ends, using magnets to hold them in place and spacing them with the steps, which I'll solder in later. Finally I cut out the cab and folded it to shape and just placed it on the footplate to see how it looks... ...which, (apart from the gap!) is pretty good, I reckon..?!? Again, sorry about the picture quality... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 My word doesn't daddy bear look big in 7mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 My bending bars are the same as yours , but they do the job, you can spend a fortune on various 'must have' tools , but you have to build a lot of kits to really justify them IMO . Looks to be going together reasonably well & very quikley too ...........you wil have to think of your next project soon if you don't slow down :icon_winker: Phill :icon_clap: :icon_thumbsup2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 (which ends are A and B anyway on a 14, anyone know?) If I'd read all the instructions properly I'd have found out before I asked...!! :icon_rolleyes: :icon_redface: As Kenton confirmed, the longer bonnet end is the A end. :icon_winker: I catch on fast, as you can tell... :icon_lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 A bit more progress; the Comedy Soldering Show is well underway... The end steps are now in place: And underneath the footplate some of the supports are in place (don't know the technical term!) On top at each end the checkerplate is in place, and nuts for securing body to chassis (something I forgot on the Class 22 until late in the build!). There's a tab missing for one of the handrails, too (right-hand side below)- no idea how that's happened, but it won't be a problem to make another one... The instructions say to check the cab doesn't overhang the sides; crucially it doesn't say what to do if it does, and hey, guess what...??? It overhangs either side by about 0.5mm... I'm not sure which way to tackle this yet. The best way would be to slice up the middle of each end and narrow it that way, but I need to make the bonnets up first and see how they relate to the cab. It may mean I have to cut the cab at each corner and remove the surplus width from there... I must say this; I don't know how on earth people like Brian (mozzer) manage these kits in the smaller scales...!?!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I must say this; I don't know how on earth people like Brian (mozzer) manage these kits in the smaller scales...!?!?! You look to be coping pretty well to me mate :icon_clap: Phill :icon_thumbsup2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 The instructions say to check the cab doesn't overhang the sides; crucially it doesn't say what to do if it does, and hey, guess what...??? It overhangs either side by about 0.5mm... If you ask me that looks a lot bigger than 0.5mm ... more like 5mm Whatever, the instructions are correct, it should not overhang the footplate. That is assuming the footplate is correct and not the cab, FYI the cab/footplate should be 8ft 6 and 3/32 inches across (I'll leave you to scale it in 7mm) It is actually wider over the battery box fasteners (8ft 7 and 3/4 inches) If it is the cab at fault, I can't see any other way than down the middle, filing that much off the outer edges will look wrong with the teddy bear's eyes. I must say this; I don't know how on earth people ... manage these kits in the smaller scales...!?!?! Leave off some of the detail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hi, Attached some images which might help you along the way, I have a few more from inside the cab if you think they might help. Click to see full size, right click to save. Best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer1027 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Coming along nicely Jordan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Attached some images which might help you along the way, Nice pictures - shows the tricky recessed cab doorway handrails nicely BUT what is it with all that non prototypical bling on the bonnet ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Nice pictures - shows the tricky recessed cab doorway handrails nicely BUT what is it with all that non prototypical bling on the bonnet ? I think they were going (or had just) to use/used it for a Xmas dinner special, sort of wander along the NVR ar a sedate pace whilst you dine, it was a bitterly cold Decemeber mid week day as I recall, a healthy deposit to the fitters xmas fund opened lots of doors...literally . Best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Matters arising; Kenton; I think the camera angle has distorted the perspective a bit... the cab sides really are perpendicular and don't overhang by 5mm, trust me! The measurement is taken at the base of the cab on the footplate- it really does only just overhang, but enough to look wrong. (well, obviously if it is wrong, it's going to look wrong, innit? D'oh!! :icon_redface: ) Just cutting the cab up the middle could possibly remove the 1mm surplus, but I don't want the bonnets to then overlap the windows, hence why I'll make those first then decide what to do... Micheal, thanks for all those pictures- especially the one of the Works and Shed Plates- guess what I neglected to photograph on D9555 at the DFR, and couldn't get a decent picture of via Google yesterday...?!?!? That picture is just what I needed!! 86A Shed; Newport (Ebbw Junction) I believe? Now here's a question someone may be able to answer... Which Shed was D9535 (my intended model) allocated to in Jan 1966...?? It was the first 14 to work into the Forest of Dean that month (and it promptly broke down, but that's another story...!!). My research so far doesn't show any 14s as being actually allocated to Gloucester, but rather in that general area they were allocated to Newport, Cardiff and Bristol Bath Road. Newport being the closest to the Forest, can I take it that would be the most likely Shed Plate for D9535 ...? Anyway thanks for everyone's comments and support; this interaction is precisely why I prefer Threads over Blogs... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Matters arising; Now here's a question someone may be able to answer... Which Shed was D9535 (my intended model) allocated to in Jan 1966...?? It was the first 14 to work into the Forest of Dean that month (and it promptly broke down, but that's another story...!!). My research so far doesn't show any 14s as being actually allocated to Gloucester, but rather in that general area they were allocated to Newport, Cardiff and Bristol Bath Road. Newport being the closest to the Forest, can I take it that would be the most likely Shed Plate for D9535 ...? Anyway thanks for everyone's comments and support; this interaction is precisely why I prefer Threads over Blogs... Hi Jordan :icon_wave: D9535 first allocation was Cardiff in March 65 & was allocated to Bristol before Nov 66 & withdrawn in Dec 68 according to 'The Western Hydraulics' by J K Lewis( the book doesn't give a precise date for re-allocation to Bristol ) , the book goes on to say that D9535 was withdrawn from Cardiff Canton on April 26th 1969. The loco was finally dismantled in January 1984 at NCB Ashington by D Short . Sorry that the book doesn't give more precise allocation details & contradicts it's self over BR withdrawal dates, but I hope it is of some use to you. Cheers Phill :icon_thumbsup2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Kenton; I think the camera angle has distorted the perspective a bit... the cab sides really are perpendicular and don't overhang by 5mm, trust me! The measurement is taken at the base of the cab on the footplate- it really does only just overhang, but enough to look wrong. (well, obviously if it is wrong, it's going to look wrong, innit? D'oh!! :icon_redface: ) Just cutting the cab up the middle could possibly remove the 1mm surplus, but I don't want the bonnets to then overlap the windows, hence why I'll make those first then decide what to do... OK so it is only 0.5mm - I'm still a little worried that it is the footplate that is wrong and not the cab. If the cab AND engine casings are all wrong it will sit oddly on the footplate and agree cutting the cab front and back has the potential of compromising the windows. I am a bit surprised the designer didn't pick this one up in a test build - especially when emphasising the issue in the instructions Which Shed was D9535 (my intended model) allocated to in Jan 1966...?? Class 14 Allocations I agree with Phill as to the original allocation to Cardiff Canton (86A) in March 65 but then have a slightly different history. It was allocated to Swansea East Docks (87E) in Jan 66 then by 67 it was back in Cardiff Canton (86A) where it remained until withdrawn in Jan 69. (so that's 3 different dates!!) it is a point worth noting that D9536 (and quite a few others) were transferred to the NCB in April 69 - so perhaps the withdrawal date is not the same as the transfer date and an assumption has been made - like so often with allocation information. None of the class were allocated to Gloucester (85B) but a few were allocated to Worcester (85A) - which is pretty close including D9534 but only in 1968 for the few months before it was exported (and the rest also sold on in April 68) so Worcester may just have been a storage point (all those empty shed spaces after steam). Quite a few of the class were allocated to Hull after initial allocation in Cardiff Canton - that is about as far afield as they got. Basically not used for what they were built for they ended up in docks and similar areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Just out of interest, what made you choose D9535 ? Phill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks for the replies, lads. :icon_wave: I chose D9535 for no other reason than it was the first Class 14 (and first Diesel I think) to work into the Forest of Dean, and also as it no longer exists it'd just be nice to honour it's memory in some small way, a bit like my Class 22 D6320... Another option is D9555 which still exists of course (and therefore is a lot easier to research!!) but I baulked at all the '5's I'd have to use off a transfer sheet... (the fact that D9535 is only two 5's less has, rather stupidly, only just occured to me... more "D'oh!!" ) :icon_rolleyes: Concerning the withdrawal dates for D9535; according to this site it was withdrawn in Dec '68 but still used in the Hereford area and as Depot Pilot at Canton in 1970...! So a real mix-up!!! In a Dean Forest Railway magazine they printed a picture captioned as D9535 working the first train of the New Year Jan 3rd 1966 leaving Lydney Junction for Parkend. Cardiff would be the likely Allocated Depot for that area; maybe it was moved to Swansea later in the month? But if it went back to Cardiff only a short while later, would they have bothered to change the Shed Plate in the meantime?? This is assuming it even carried shedplates; various photos seem to show that Works Plates were common enough but maybe not Shed Plates? Blimey what a minefield!!! I think I'm going to settle for 86A... don't want to be accused of rivet-counting again, do I..??? :icon_razz: :icon_lol: :icon_winker: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I did build one of these not long after the kit came out many moons ago. If I remember right regarding the wide cab I am sure I broke into 4 pieces and soldered the ends to the hoods then the sides on and filed the corners down. I certainly did not cut the ends in half to reduce them. Does the kit still come with double brake shoes? I think it was only the first 10or 20 that had these, the rest having single shoes as they are in preservation now which is why I did a low numbered one. And don't forget the number font is unique to these. Keep up the good work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 This is assuming it even carried shedplates; various photos seem to show that Works Plates were common enough but maybe not Shed Plates? Blimey what a minefield!!! I would caution taking anything - even prototypical photos - as gospel. There are a lot of errors made in captions and inother documents. However if you have a photograph of a confirmed location of a Cl.14 showing the shed plate then I guess it must have carried it. Treat photos of locos in preservation with even greater caution as the owners tend to have all sorts of dreams and concocted liveries. Also modifications are inevitable and not always as per original diagram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 In order to determine what to do with the cab, I've folded the bonnets up to see how wide they are and how they sit with the cab. First off there are five half-etch lines where the bend has to be made; with the help of a steel bar of near-enough the right diameter, they bent to shape very easily... So a quick mock-up with both bonnets, the cab, and a bonnet end were in order... A End: B End: ... and a couple more gratuitous pictures just to make sure... :icon_razz: The result of this is that the cab will have to be split into it's four sides, as Brian did, and the two ends narrowed a bit to fit. As the tops of the cab sides need to be rolled to better fit the roof profile, and this would be easier if they were seperate items anyway, this is the best option all round... It does have the double-shoe brakes... will have to see what to do about that... I wonder why the brakes were changed on later machines?, as one of the complaints about them was their lack of brake force, especially on some of the steep grades in the Forest. I hadn't noticed the font was different; oh boy- something else to think about...!!! :icon_sad: :icon_mutter: I appreciate what Kenton says about photos etc not being Gospel, and especially locos in preservation; after all, the images Micheal posted earlier of D9516 show it to have a totally 'bogus' numberplate, and there was some discussion on RMweb3 about the current colour of the cab on D9521 (i.e. the shade of green)... :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nortonian Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Hello Jordan, I`ll be in touch with you today over the coupling rods. Instead of cutting anything, can you not add a thin strip of brass or scrap etch to the runningplate edges and fill the joining gap with solder and blend in, after all you can hardly see the edges of the runningplate due the tool boxes etc ?. 10 thou strip or something. And before we all go thinking this is not prototypical in width, neither is the track, but we live with that. Kindest Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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