two tone green Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hello all. Having got tools, drills etc at the Bristol show last weekend, I set to and built the two bogies for the power car. I could not resist temptation and put the motor bogie and non powered bogie onto the floor to see what it ran like. Wired up the motor to a Lenz Gold decoder and set it running around the half circle of track I have on some boards at the moment. But whilst the non power bogie tilts nicely the motor on the power bogie fouls the aluminium carrier, bearing on the underside of the floor that the bogie sits on. See photos below. This prevents any tilt in one direction which if I go for the under board fiddle yard could be a problem as the DMU goes over the hump and down the incline. Also the brass bush in the motor bogie spreader needs turning over as it causes about 1mm difference in height between either end. But so far so good and have enjoyed the little I have done. Now the difficult stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yep....I had to relieve the aluminium bearing quite a lot as I mounted the motor at 90 deg to your position, this gives me more "lock" so it'll traverse tighter curves (not that its likely to encounter them very often, but you never know). I have not yet measured ride hieghts but no doubt there will be some jiggle required! Nothing this weekend I am afraid, friends visiting..........annoying as I recieved the rest of the 18BA nuts and bolts this week, was going to get them all fitted to the brakes...oh well, next week! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Gosh, you must have some tight curves. Mine has still quite a bit of travel before the motor hits the stops and that is on my Lenz Setrack Curves that are 40.5 inch radius. Shame about the visitors, lots of lost time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2011 Gosh, you must have some tight curves. Mine has still quite a bit of travel before the motor hits the stops and that is on my Lenz Setrack Curves that are 40.5 inch radius. Shame about the visitors, lots of lost time Your probably right.....I mounted the motor that way around "just because I could" as a test track I bought an oval of Atlas which also is 40.5" (most likely the same source!) and there is enough play to swing the station masters favorite pet around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think it would make it around the first radius which I think is about 39 inches but not sure. I dont intend turning the motor, just remove the area of the bearing that is visable now. It will be enough for me. Next task, pick ups on the non powered bogie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Siddall Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Evening All. Good to see lots of progress and ideas being made by all of you avid builders out there. I have slowly been getting the bodysides finished but still need a good few hours in order to start work on the cabs. Sadly work has only allowed me half an hour or so each evening so I have been painting sides and then finishing a couple of part built connoisseur wagons that I discovered in a box under the stairs Hopefully work will calm down in the coming weeks and i'll get a chance to finish the bodies, also a paycheque or two may mean an order for brake blocks from Slaters as I think they do set the bogie off well. Cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Got mine running on the rolling road after fitting the non powered bogie with pick ups and I have a bit of slap in the drive in one direction. The other way is good, noisy but good. It may be the way its sat on the rolling road but its very noisy in the other direction with a pronounced slap as it runs. Tweaking is called for me thinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Siddall Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Had my motor bogie running on the club test track the other week and must say it ran very sweet, it did however not run as well on the rolling road, so it could be worth trying it out on a bit of track before tweaking too far. Cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2011 Got mine running on the rolling road after fitting the non powered bogie with pick ups and I have a bit of slap in the drive in one direction. The other way is good, noisy but good. It may be the way its sat on the rolling road but its very noisy in the other direction with a pronounced slap as it runs. Tweaking is called for me thinks. Hm, mine exhibited something like that too, as I said earlier in this thread I decided to stiffen the brass spreader using a couple of brass sections running lengthwise along the spreader either side of the motor ending at the other end of the bogie spreader, it had cured my problem 90%. I am sure it was the spread flexing in opposite directions under the slight load from the motor. I was going to experiment making a solid brass gearbox/motor assembly but after the mod I am completely satisfied with the running qualities now, especially as at the moment it is running purely DC on the rolling road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hi both, I did run it on some track and it is much better. What I did find is that when lifting it off the rolling road, Bachrus, is that there was very fine brass material scattered across the area underneath the motor bogie. So the work drive has worn the brass wheel that is attached to one of the axles. It looks clean and no sign of cutting so it must be just bedding in. Have you fixed the wheels as described in the instructions with regards setting the top hat wheel bearings and not having much side play in the wheels. Surely some side play would be beneficial to cope with track discrepancies. They way it describes in the instructions, there must be almost non as they say to move the top hat bearing in until they just touch the pin point axles. That is after setting the side frame to wheel distance equal both sides. Not sure I will get chance to do more as tomorrow is day out keeping the boss happy. And then only half day at home before off into the ether again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TimC Posted January 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hi I built my motor bogie for my Cravens this week too. Runs fine although a bit noisy - there is certainly no flex in the mechanism/mounting arrangement. I have fixed the axles as per the instructions, I'd be surprised if there was an issue here with just a 2 axle bogie. Avon GOG meeting the week after next so I'll see how it runs around the test track then. BTW - Good spot on the floor height difference between driven and non driven bogies, I have the same issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hi Tim, Good to hear from you. You mention Avon GOG, any chance of gate crashing with you as I'm currently based in Bristol. Would be good to see your efforts go around the test track and have a natter. I've turned the brass bearing over now and the difference in height is now under 0.5 mm. The thick section visible in the third photo is now under the spreader on the motor bogie. I've only used a steel rule held against the floor with the unit on a flat bed but the non powered end is as good as bang on 31mm and the powered end at 31.5 ish. Certainly not over this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TimC Posted January 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2011 TTG - I've sent you a PM. Let me know if you can't get to it for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 It's interesting to see how you gents get round this particular problem, because when I built my cravens unit I modified the bogie attachment to allow a little but of pitch as well as allowing it to turn, and this seemed to get round the problem quite nicely. I am curious about that motor that seems to be fouling, is that the motor you had supplied, it's about twice the size of the one that I got from Shawn which may account for some of the problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Boris, The motor in my case is the one supplied with the kit and does run very nicely. But as you can see in the picture above, it is right up against the aluminium bearing that is attached to the underframe. I have since the photos were taken scribed around the edge of the floor onto the bearing and removed that area on the bearing. This allows the motor to pitch forward and backwards now with plenty of clearance. I'm happy now with the outcome especially as I may now go for a split level layout and the movement of the bogie would be important for use with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Boris, The motor in my case is the one supplied with the kit and does run very nicely. But as you can see in the picture above, it is right up against the aluminium bearing that is attached to the underframe. I have since the photos were taken scribed around the edge of the floor onto the bearing and removed that area on the bearing. This allows the motor to pitch forward and backwards now with plenty of clearance. I'm happy now with the outcome especially as I may now go for a split level layout and the movement of the bogie would be important for use with this. That's what I was wondering, because the motor I got was a good portion smaller, and, whilst not fouling the bearing, the mounting needing considerable adjustment to get the motor to secure properly. It is now a fantastic runner though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TimC Posted January 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi There is no issue with motor/pivot clearance on the Cravens. I had to enlarge the floor cut-out for the motor a tad but it all works fine. The ride height is corrected as TTG suggests by turning the top hat pivot bearing over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Both, I think that the kits are still evolving for the better from what the nice people on the Easy Build stand at the Bristol show had to say. So may be the 105's now have the bigger motor and better floor cutout as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted February 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2011 I finally managed a couple of hours this week in the shed (sounds like punishment ) and got one set of brake shoes and hangers finished, well located at least! They need painting of course and a little bit of tidying beforehand but I think they are going to be worth the effort eventually....I still want to model the brackets and AWS equipment that hangs off one end of the outer bogies. You will have to excuse the fragments of white plastic all over the place (from drilling out the hangers for the 16BA nuts and threading)as I took a quick snap before blowing the bogie clean. I think I am averaging about 2 hours a week modelling in total at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Siddall Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hi David, The brake gear is looking really good, so much so I am going to get onto Slaters this morning and order some brake shoes. Just out of interest, where did you get the 16 and 18 BA studding from? I looked at the ME Exhibition the other week and the smallest available was 12 BA. I really don't fancy having to turn my own up Cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted February 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2011 I used 16BA screws and nuts from the Scalefour society, they have a sales website (I don't have access to the link at the moment as I am at work). I put the nuts on the threads and chopped off the screw heads leaving me with studding and a nut to match the look of the real thing, and the studding then just goes through the hole on the hanger/brake shoes and into the brass tubing with a drop of cyano its all secure. Edited my posts as I been saying I used 18BA.....I actually used 16BA I WANTED to use 18BA but found them too difficult to source! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Having expected to be building base boards and other jobs over the weekend, I managed to to get quite a bit done on the 108. The wood delivered to build the boards had more waves in than my local beach so it was rejected as near useless for purpose so set to and get this far. Question, suggestions please, head light lenses. What is best to use for ease of use etc? They are for the head lights, as you can see they don't have any yet but have drilled the holes out to 4mm and lined them with speed tape to act as a reflector and then fitted 3mm red, warm white LED's with the tip of the LED at a distance where I think the bulb would have been. The LED's are not fitted permanently, just blue tacked in so I could take a photo but when they are central and with the black mounting behind the LED I think it looks quite good and the light from them quite good. I have run it on a short test track and it grinds its way back and forth. I'm hoping to have it in a more usable state for 9th March to take to a club I was at with TIM C last Wednesday. I can give it a good run then and get the gears bedded in a bit more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted February 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 Andy, that bodyside is looking great now, I thought about something different for the hinges and bump stops but they look fine there, as to the lamp glasses how about trying a slice of 4mm clear plastic rodding, these lamp glasses were opaque I believe so a quick rub on the inside face with some 1000 grade wet and dry would frost it nicely. I had a bit of a disaster yesterday with my power bogie.....I had it running gently on the rolling road then suddenly a awful grinding noise and the drive locked solid then it started going again pretty roughly.....upon reaching the rolling road from where I was working I found only one axle turning the other had locked solid and the delrin gear was slipping on the locked axle upon investigation it appears the trailing powered axle had locked in it bearings on one side, I have no idea why as they were all quiet liberally oiled as they were built up and have about a millimetre of side play so not exactly tight when dry! I managed to get it all free again and oiled once more and the axle turned freely again, but the delrin cog on that axle was now not gripping like it should.....I had to drill and pin the cog and axle (not as difficult as I had feared with a piece of .5mm wire). Problem that showed itself by this event was the fact that on this design of bogie there is no way of dismantling the wheel sets without virtually destroying the whole bogie something I had thought of but dismissed as probably not a worry as so little to go wrong I wonder if the bottoms of the axle boxes could be modified to screw on so dropping the axle set would be a simple matter.....unfortunately out of my realm of competence I feel. And this all happened as I was just finishing fixing the brake shoes and rodding to both trailing bogies.....something just had to go wrong didn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TimC Posted February 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 TTG - Looking good! For a lens I built up layers of Glue'n'Glaze, though I'm sure Krystal Klear (or whatever) will do a similar job. Maybe even PVA. I had to move the marker lights on my Cravens so replaced the mouldings with plastic tube so I have plenty of room for the LEDs behind the lens. The first application will dry concave in section so you then have to fill the 'hole' for a flat face at the front. A couple of thin layers does the trick, especially of you leave the marker lights horizontal to dry (I must admit that this was a bit easier when the cabs were still separate from the sides). It doesn't dry completely clear either which gives the required effect. Try it on a spare piece of tube first and see what you think. _________________________________________ David - that sounds a nightmare! You wouldn't have thought that there was much to go wrong with a pin pointed axle. Though I did find some swarf in one of my axle bearings when I was building my bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hi Both, have moved 150 miles east since posting the pictures this morning. Good tips for the lenses, I'll give things a go next trip home. As for the axles, this morning when I was taking the pictures I notices a small black dot right in the centre of the top hat bearing in the axle box of one axle on the motor bogie. Closer inspection reveled it to be the tip of the axle which had worn through the top hat bearing and its only run an hour at the most. I've not even centred the axles yet as per the instructions which ask you to push the bearing in until the touch the pin point ends of the axles. Then fix as per the instructions. But closer inspection again showed the others about to break through. A pip pointing out towards the outside is a sign of this so the bearings must be very thin to say the least. And no way of replacing them other than break the bogie apart as its glued etc. Will have to look more closely next weekend when I'm home as I did not have time this morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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