Advice on DJH Kits Required

[Dad-1]

I fancy a 4 mm Caledonian 439 loco and as far as I'm aware there is just one option, the DJH kit.

I've read a few comments in various places that some of their kits are good, others very difficult to build in to a fine running model.

For me quality of running is one of the most important things, hence my reluctance to buy without trying to obtain some feedback.

 

To compound my fears I've only ever worked on one loco kit, a resin Dean Sidings Killin Pug where a RTR chassis is used. I have

no specific metal working tools, just a few files, std power drill, and junior hacksaw, not even a vice !! I have modelled in plastic for

around 40 years, so have pin vice, fine drills, soldering irons, abrasive papers 80-1000, scalpels, tweezers and such.

 

So what could be considered the minimum tools to make a sucess from one of these kits ? I suppose my fear falls around the bending

and cutting of metal that may be required. I didn't get along with bending etched brass parts for use in plastic aircraft models !!

 

Geoff T.

[benachie]

There was a Ks kit which can sometimes be got secondhand. However, the DJH kit is excellent and goes together relatively easily. You must recognise, however, that all 0-4-4 tanks are difficult because of the over-heavy rear. The DJH kit uses spring pressure onto the bogie to counteract this - a common solution - but this is not all that easy to adjust. Compensation is not easy either though the twin-beam system is not too bad. All in all, 0-4-4Ts are not really for "beginners".

Alan

[Kenton]

All in all, 0-4-4Ts are not really for "beginners".

i would like to second that point and make it more emphatic.

 

You say that running quality is highest on your list of must haves. Yet it sounds as if you have not put a running chassis together.

There are two very distinct parts to loco kit building

1. The body - this requires soldering technique, and the refinement of adding detail.

2. A fully functioning and smooth running chassis and motion - this requires more of an engineering skill.

 

The DJH kits are quite good at providing all you need for (1), this one being no exception.

Their chassis, have on occasion left much to be desired. Especially if you wish to go EM or P4.

 

An 0-4-4 chassis requires very delicate balance to operate well and getting that weight distribution right can make the difference between a loco that moves smoothly in both directions and one that does not move at all.

[Dad-1]

Hi benachie and Kenton'

 

My fear is of making a strong reliable chassis that's square, level, and runs freely - after that the actual performance on the track must be one of careful weighting and balancing.

I don't have any idea where the motor & gearbox as reccommended fits (M1224D motor), but any 'spare' space at the smoke box or boiler front can have a lead ingot made to fit.

If I get one It will be made to '00' gauge standards and DCC fitted.

My Dean sidings kit was on the Hornby 0-4-0 chassis - it took more time to ballast and balance that than making the rest of the kit - however it can now run at a scale 4-5 mph while pulling 25 wagons, starting without wheel slip and crossing dead frog points without stalling....... I have a good stock of lead !!

 

I just don't want a £100 lemon sitting in a 'spares' box, or something that can't be used !!

 

Geoff T.

[Guest stuartp]

If you fancy an alternative route and don't mind the compromise, Ben Alder of this parish has turned a Hornby M7 into a very passable 439. Have a look on his blog 'Kylesku & The Mound'. The coupled wheelbase is strictly too long for a 439 but it looks convincing.

 

I built the 439 years ago. The chassis is an 0-4-0 unit for the front (with frames of bomb-proof thickness) with screwed spacers designed to be built rigid with the axles in top-hat bushes. If you buy it from West Coast Kits they'll include a motor and gearbox ready-meshed, and Romford wheels (self-quartering). (I think they do DJH ? Could be wrong). All you have to do is build it square. There is bags of room for driving either axle if you don't mind the gears showing under the boiler, the front splashers hide most of it though. The only metal bending involved is putting the joggle in the front guard irons but you'll need a hefty file and a large-ish soldering iron to get the top hat bushes in place, and a round needle file to open the holes out for the bushes. All this assumes that you build the chassis 'as it comes' with no complications.

 

The rear bogie is sprung as already stated. It's pivoted off a bolt poking out through the bunker floor, sideplay being taken care of by a slot on the bogie stretcher in a similar fashion to the old Mainline loco chassis. Adjustment of weight distribution is by cutting bits off the spring until it looks right. I did have trouble getting it balanced properly but I had more trouble making pick-ups that actually worked and that's a feature of all kit-built chassis (all mine anyway). Shortly after I stripped it down to convert it to EM and it's been in the loft ever since.

[Jamie]

Forum member and co-conspirator Max Stafford has recently featured his build of the same kit, see here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/73/entry-3771-something-to-pull-the-new-coaches/ and other entries on his blog.

 

There may be some interest there for you?

[benachie]

"any 'spare' space at the smoke box or boiler front can have a lead ingot made to fit."

Hi Geoff,

That just won't be enough to counterbalance the tank/cab/bunker weight so you have to have some weight transmitted on to the bogie which also helps to guide the back end sensibly round curves. Frankly, any 0-4-4T presents just about the most difficult chassis to build (though very satisfying when you get it right). I always use twin beam suspension or build the 4-coupled unit rigid but allow it to rock fore-and-aft as with good practice in coach suspension.

Alan

[Kenton]

a round needle file to open the holes out for the bushes.

NO, please don't start someone new to trying to get a chassis square on the "how to get sloppy holes that never line up" method.

 

Use a reamer - always to open out holes.

[Guest stuartp]

Fair comment, you should really use a reamer.

[Dad-1]

Thank you Gentlemen,

 

Some very interesting reading, although the "scale 4" chassis thesis is rather deep.

I'm almost certain to go for this and when I do I may well give you a blow by blow story of how I get on !!

 

My running tends to be quite slow with probably never more than 30 mph scale type speed, frequently below 20 mph.

Having non-compensated 0-4-0 chasis running at speeds down to 1 mph, even over points I feel I could get one of these

to work with 4 fixed drivers and suitably sprung trailing set ...... I suppose only time will tell.

Can it be more difficult that setting up a pre-loaded crownwheel & pinion in my old rally car, building a gearbox at the side of

the road, or rebuilding my engines ? All a long time ago though .....

 

Now where's my cheque book ....

 

 

Geoff T.

[GC Jack]

Thank you Gentlemen,

 

Some very interesting reading, although the "scale 4" chassis thesis is rather deep.

I'm almost certain to go for this and when I do I may well give you a blow by blow story of how I get on !!

 

My running tends to be quite slow with probably never more than 30 mph scale type speed, frequently below 20 mph.

Having non-compensated 0-4-0 chasis running at speeds down to 1 mph, even over points I feel I could get one of these

to work with 4 fixed drivers and suitably sprung trailing set ...... I suppose only time will tell.

Can it be more difficult that setting up a pre-loaded crownwheel & pinion in my old rally car, building a gearbox at the side of

the road, or rebuilding my engines ? All a long time ago though .....

 

Now where's my cheque book ....

 

 

Geoff T.

 

Hi Geoff I replied to you on the NRM site, hope you found it helpful.

 

Good advice here as ever, ket us know how it goes.

 

Jack

[Downendian]

Well I'm resurrecting this thread rather than start a new one.

I've just acquired a DJH S&DJR 7F (1914 batch) with a Deeley tender, but with some damage to the tender (which includes two steps missing). I've contacted DJH and they won't (rather annoyingly) provide an after sales service for a secondhand model (?), so does anyone know of a supplier of said steps for a Deeley tender as per attached to a 7F?

Neil

[DougN]

Try the mainly trains etched foot steps. They are really scratch builders aids but might be the solution.

[Downendian]

Wow thanks - I'd scoured the web and this hadn't surfaced.

I have a GBL Midland compound, the tender of which was going to be donated but that's a much better option.

Neil

[Dad-1]

I know I'm not the only one ...

To have unfinished projects that you eventually return to finish (I hope)

Well coming up 11 years ago I had this idea to make a loco kit. It had to be what I wanted and not

just because as a first build it should be something easy.

 

I'm back into the box of bits that remain, I want to finish it.

 

 

Currently I'm trying to build up the pickups. from plasticard, copperclad, springy wire.

My chassis with gearbox runs well with power.

As soon as pickups are in I have to get the rear bogie arrangement 'right'. The loco is packed

with lead, but it still tail sits. The actual weight to be supported on the sprung bogie is low

and as long as it moves sideway freely enough should/could be able to stay on the rails.

 

Since I started this I have built 2 small Roxey Mouldings white metal kits.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Geoff T

 

 

 

 

[Dad-1]

More progress, heck wish I could keep up with the local snails !!

 

My spare decoder fits in the bunker, trouble is I'll have to keep as a lift off fitting just in case I

ever need to change the decoder.

 

 

The bunker base is sealed, just have the wires coming out

 

 

My present difficulty is making up contact wipers for the insulated wheels. This is the plan :- two wires

mounted in a copperclad strip from which the red input to the decoder will be attached. I want to connect together with a small tension spring, but I don't have any and trying to find what I THINK I want is not being easy.

 

 

 

That may, or may not be the best idea. Any suggestions ? Trying to find a suitable springy wire to

eliminate the spring idea is not easy.

 

Then of course I need to attach the bogie and find how much pressure it can accept from the tail heavy

model and stay on the tracks. I probably didn't help myself by using the largest brass flywheel I could

fit in the space. I like large flywheels for smooth running, but this is all aft of the second driver axle.

 

At least today with with the grey/orange/black wires attached and a crocodile clip attaching red, the

motor was running through the decoder. This highlighted some fouling so I've been

in a scrape white metal mode.

 

Geoff T.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Dad-1
line spacing

[Barclay]

15 hours ago, Dad-1 said:

More progress, heck wish I could keep up with the local snails !!

 

My spare decoder fits in the bunker, trouble is I'll have to keep as a lift off fitting just in case I

ever need to change the decoder.

 

 

The bunker base is sealed, just have the wires coming out

 

 

My present difficulty is making up contact wipers for the insulated wheels. This is the plan :- two wires

mounted in a copperclad strip from which the red input to the decoder will be attached. I want to connect together with a small tension spring, but I don't have any and trying to find what I THINK I want is not being easy.

 

 

 

That may, or may not be the best idea. Any suggestions ? Trying to find a suitable springy wire to

eliminate the spring idea is not easy.

 

Then of course I need to attach the bogie and find how much pressure it can accept from the tail heavy

model and stay on the tracks. I probably didn't help myself by using the largest brass flywheel I could

fit in the space. I like large flywheels for smooth running, but this is all aft of the second driver axle.

 

At least today with with the grey/orange/black wires attached and a crocodile clip attaching red, the

motor was running through the decoder. This highlighted some fouling so I've been

in a scrape white metal mode.

 

Geoff T.

Hi I usually use brass wire for pickups and find it has enough natural spring to do the job. I think yours may be a little thick though it's hard to tell. I would normally use 0.33mm or 0.45mm depending on how long the pickups need to be and if soldered in place on the copperclad sufficient spring can be induced in them. Others swear by phosphor bronze which may well be better but I haven't used it.

 

Crude but illustrative example !

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Barclay
adding photo

[Dad-1]

Thanks for that Barclay,

 

I was previously advised phosphor bronze and will probably get some on order today. I don't want

to return to this should my first attempt fail.

 

After some white metal scraping the wheel sets run well when all attached to a tired 9V battery.

 

Before the thinner and perhaps more springy wire comes I'll be looking at exactly how much weight

the bogie has to take and how free it is under that load. By all accounts this is where 0-4-4 problems

arise.

 

I'm beginning to get excited !! My only completed 'Locomotives' both ran on 24.5 mm Tenshodo

Spuds, my building limited to the bodywork and squeezing a DCC decoder into a Roxey Moulding 

Hollingbury Tram

 

 

Geoff T.

[RedgateModels]

I used to work in instrumentation and Phosphor bronze was always used where a springy contact etc was needed. Brass can take a "set" whereas Pb does not so much. I tend to use very thin wire and wind it round a small metal rod to make a spiral where space permits. You get guaranteed contact with the wheel with minimal pressure

 

 

 

A tender with pickups but you get the idea

Edited April 6, 2022 by RedgateModels

[micklner]

I use Nickel Silver wire 0.45mm on mine , Brass is too soft and will wear away, quite quickly.

[Dad-1]

As always Gentlemen, thanks for the advice.

I've today ordered some 0.35 Phosphor Bronze wire. I like the idea of a twisted centre over a pin

and will see if I can incorporate that.

 

I have also inherited a '00' SR 0-8-0 'Z' kit, less motor & gearbox. All brass and nickel silver. As it's

cost me nothing yet. I'm tempted to have a go. Before that I need to be confident that I've made

this 439 work acceptably. Then to get a high level gearbox and motor.

 

Geoff T.

[MarkC]

FWIW, if the kit is still in production, I've found DJH to be very helpful in providing spares - even for eBay 'rescue' jobs. Not a cheap option, it has to be said, but you do have to have someone pick the parts, parcel them up and post them. DJH are, let's not forget, a business.

 

Mark