US Car Float Operation

[flubrush]

Were locomotives allowed on to a car float, or did they have to avoid 'boarding' the float by using spacer cars to reach cars on the float?

 

Jim.

[pH]

Canadian, not US, but locos certainly went on board the barge on CP's Slocan Lake barge service:

Loading cars at Slocan City

Arriving at Rosebery

The service was withdrawn in 1989. A CP 2-8-0 was lost in the lake when a barge sank in 1947.

 

However, BNSF used to have a barge operation at the docks in Vancouver (I don't know if they still have - it's been a while since I went there in the train), and they did use barrier wagons - old flat cars - there. The locos didn't go on to the barge.

[peach james]

well, if you don't put the loco on the barge, you don't get here...

 

BNSF barge facility in Vancouver was sold to SVI in 2009, then service out of downtown was discontinued ~November 2009. Barge service for SVI is from a new facility built @ Annicas Island, on the Fraser. Part of that was the restriction on Hazmat from downtown from Jan-Feb this year.

 

There are some images on the web of the downtown facility that I took in Jan of this year. Great view from my cabin, got some decent photos of Hunslet "B" too. (at least, the presumption is it's B)

 

6135 (A BUDD car) recently left here to go to Moncton, NB. The twins (110/119) have been across a couple of times to the mainland, and 7059 came over here. (but is unlikely to leave the island again). I suspect there will be a restriction on loading

Rail Slips of Vancouver Island

 

James (wx732)

[signalmaintainer]

I was about to ditto your response, pH, as my first thoughts went to the Milwaukee Road's car float operations. However, New York Cross Harbor Railroad does carry locomotives on its floats.

[CraigZ]

Loco on float was how the Central of New Jersey got its Harlem locomotives back and forth for inspections and repairs; I seem to recall the Lackawanna did the same thing.

[highpeak]

Canadian, not US, but locos certainly went on board the barge on CP's Slocan Lake barge service:

Loading cars at Slocan City

Arriving at Rosebery

The service was withdrawn in 1989. A CP 2-8-0 was lost in the lake when a barge sank in 1947.

 

However, BNSF used to have a barge operation at the docks in Vancouver (I don't know if they still have - it's been a while since I went there in the train), and they did use barrier wagons - old flat cars - there. The locos didn't go on to the barge.

The November, 2010 Railroad Model Crafstman magazine had an article on those operations with a number of interesting old photographs.

[dave1905]

Depends entirely on the operation and the capacity of the barge and the weight of the locomotive.

 

Many car float operations prohibited engines on the aprons and barge.

 

Many car float operations floated the engines as well as the cars.

 

You can find examples to support either operation.

[flubrush]

Many thanks for all the replies and for the pointers to very good pictures of floats.

 

The reason I ask is that I am constructing a small switching layout and the 'hidden sidings' for freight cars will be small car floats.

 

 

Everything still very much in the building stage

 

As you an see, it's not a very large float with a maximum payload of six 50foot cars, so I suspect that the float would not be capable of supporting a loco, so I might choose to opt for using spacer cars as an additional operational gotcha. I might try and work in a short spur for the spacer cars next to the float dock.

 

Should have said - 1:160 scale.

 

Jim.

[Talltim]

Yes (From http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/nyd.html)

[shortliner]

The New York Cross Harbor Railroad was featured in a RailPace magazine around 5 years or so ago - The cover shows a diesel on a float with boxcars. The Erie RR E149th Street "Harlem Station" only ever had 4 locos operating on it, but had NO connection to the rest of the world apart from its carfloats, so that was the only way they moved between the yard and servicing on the far side of the river. There is an article - (I can't remember which magazine) called "A Bookcase full of shortlines" (or something very similar)by Ed Vondrak, which features five or six shelf layouts interconnected by a carfloat - I have all the above but will have to dig if they are needed., but I will need an email address

[Talltim]

Hate to say it, but I'm pretty certain the RailPace article was more like 15 years ago!...

 

 

RailPace Index

New York Cross Harbor R.R. Railfan's Day

by Perelman, Carl (AUG 1993, p. 44)

New York Cross Harbor Railroad

Cocoa Beans Ride the Rails of the Cross Harbor (AUG 1998, p. 24)

Cross Harbor (The): Big Apple Shortline Railroading (TCG) (SEP 1992, p. 20)

Oversized Cargo Crosses the Bay (An) (JUL 2001, p. 8 )

Requiem for Harry (JAN 1998, p. 8 )

 

Edit removed unwanted smileys

[shortliner]

You are very probably right - time passes quickly when you are getting old and having fun!

The best I could find at short notice is http://members.train.../errhs192fb.jpg where the boxcab is on the float bridge and just about on the barge.

[Talltim]

eBay actually has a copy for sale right now http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RAILPACE-NEWSMAGAZINE-SEPT-1992-/400106668191?pt=Magazines&hash=item5d2837409f

[halfwit]

'The Model Railroaders Guide To Industries Along The Tracks 4' by Jeff Wilson (Kalmbach) has a section on carflats and carferries.

[Talltim]

The best I could find at short notice is http://members.train.../errhs192fb.jpg where the boxcab is on the float bridge and just about on the barge.

Thats a nice pic, not seen it before, I've read so much on that site and still find new stuff

[shortliner]

eBay actually has a copy for sale right now http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item5d2837409f

 

Yup - thats the one I was thinking of!

[flubrush]

I have all the above but will have to dig if they are needed., but I will need an email address

 

Jack,

 

Thanks for the offer but I've got all the track laid - for better or for worse - and it is probably a bit late to consider other ideas. I took my layout idea from a plan in the Droege book of 100 years ago - with the central loop and sidings coming off each side of the loop. There's also a 3:3:5 Inglenook in there somewhere.

 

 

Apologies for no drawing - the design was done on the baseboard.

 

BTW, you've actually got my email address from an exchange a year or so ago about coupler magnets.

 

Jim.

[shortliner]

That trackplan looks very workable - I think your email address went walkabout in the great motherboard failure earlier this year

[Jon Gwinnett]

I'm fascinated by those point pulls (I presume that's what they are?) Could you expand on them for the hard of thinking, i.e. me!

 

it looks like they could be buried in a foam baseboard?

[298]

It's not so much of a weight issue of the locomotive, more of a problem with the traction forces from powered wheels moving the car float or straining it's moorings. Imagine what'd happen if a diesel is lifting a heavy load up a steep linking bridge, if one truck is on "land" and the other is on the car float, it'd try to push it away from the dock.

 

Obviously some roads managed it, perhaps through isolating some of the motors to avoid having one set of powered wheels on the carfloat and the other on the linking bridge.

[shortliner]

I'm fascinated by those point pulls (I presume that's what they are?) Could you expand on them for the hard of thinking, i.e. me!

 

it looks like they could be buried in a foam baseboard?

 

Just a guess #503 Gold-N-Rod Red/Yellow model aircraft control rods - I only know because I have a couple sitting about 6' away from me - that are from an abandoned project

[pH]

It's not so much of a weight issue of the locomotive, more of a problem with the traction forces from powered wheels moving the car float or straining it's moorings. Imagine what'd happen if a diesel is lifting a heavy load up a steep linking bridge, if one truck is on "land" and the other is on the car float, it'd try to push it away from the dock.

 

Obviously some roads managed it, perhaps through isolating some of the motors to avoid having one set of powered wheels on the carfloat and the other on the linking bridge.

Or just big ropes and cables! It's surprising how much load ropes can take. I often watched Clyde steamers weighing several hundred tons being winched into piers after they'd made a mess of trying to come alongside.

 

There are several detail photos of the Slocan City barge slip in this topic (scroll down the page). They show how the slip was adjusted to different water levels and also cables used to move the slip as part of these adjustments. The tapered rails on the slip are an interesting detail.

[highpeak]

The author of the RMC article (Robert D Turner) notes that locomotives did need to be handled carefully when shifting heavy loads off the barge, but doesn't elaborate beyond that. He said that locomotives involved in these operations were fitted with thicker tyres on the wheels to give a little more clearance on the transition from the slip. There is an interesting picture showing the locomotive about to have to wade through several inches of water as it unloads cars from the barge.

 

One point made in the article that will add operational interest to your double track barge is the need to keep the load laterally balanced on the barge, avoiding, say, all loaded cars on one track and empties on the other.

[flubrush]

I'm fascinated by those point pulls (I presume that's what they are?) Could you expand on them for the hard of thinking, i.e. me!

 

it looks like they could be buried in a foam baseboard?

 

I got the plastic tube and rod in a five metre pack from Model Junction in Slough a while ago. I can't see it on their web site now, but it looks the same as the Bullfrog product on this web page.

 

http://www.handlaidtrack.com/BullFrog-Manual-Turnout-Control-Unassembled-p/bf-0002.htm

 

The central rod is actually hollow and I can tap and screw 8BA screws into it (8BA UK screw is just over 2mm diameter over the threads). At the tiebar end, I solder a short piece of brass rod in the slot of the screw head, screw that screw into the centre rod and engage the brass rod into the hole in the tiebar (Peco Code55 trackwork). At the other end, I found small shelf supports in the local DIY store which are circular with a small flat, and the hole in the middle is almost clearance for an 8BA screw, so I opened the hole out and mounted a shelf mount on the other end of the central rod with another 8BA screw.

 

The baseboard material is a soft insulation board which is stuck onto a Contiboard (plastic covered chipboard) shelf - well it is a shelf layout. This material is soft enough to cut a groove in to accept the tube. Once the tube is in place, I hold it in with a few staples from a staple gun.

 

This plastic tube doesn't like very sharp bends. I think I got it down to about 4" radius minimum before it started to get a bit too difficult to operate.

 

But the system works well and it is quite quick to instal - principally because I can use the 8BA screws in the rod quite easily. It might also work with 2mm screws - I con't have any metric (OK, I know BA is metric ) screws to try, and possibly small woodscrews or self tapping screws might work also. A slotted head makes it easier to solder the brass wire to, but isn't an absolute necessity.

 

Jim.

[Jon Gwinnett]

thanks for that comprehensive reply. Might have to give this a try