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HS2 under review

Andy Y
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lmsforever

lmsforever

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"Bring Out Your Dead"

 

Not to be outdone by the huge archeological excavations taking place at the former burial ground alongside Euston Station, Birmingham is muscling in on the act with its own "big dig".

 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/hs2-exhume-thousands-brummies-who-15328366

 

 

(No jokes please, this is a grave matter).

 

 

.

 

Lets not call it HS2 lets call it the grave line.

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GoingUnderground

GoingUnderground

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"Bring Out Your Dead"

 

Not to be outdone by the huge archeological excavations taking place at the former burial ground alongside Euston Station, Birmingham is muscling in on the act with its own "big dig".

 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/hs2-exhume-thousands-brummies-who-15328366

 

 

(No jokes please, this is a grave matter).

 

 

.

Indeed, a serious undertaking!
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locoholic

locoholic

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Let's take the worst case costs that some HS2 detractors are quoting - I think that is around £100bn. As already said that is spread out over a number of years and averages out at about £10bn a year....

 

...HS2 is not about solving a current problem, although it will help to do that, it is about looking into the future to a time when many of us will no longer be here to care about it and thereby providing a degree of resilience to the network for the future.

1. Anyone who blithely asserts that £10bn a year isn't a significant amount of money needs to have a good think. Amazon only paid £4.5 million tax last year. Comparing HS2 with the NHS is also dodgy, because the NHS benefits an awful lot more people than HS2 ever will.

 

2. Are you sure HS2 isn't about solving a current problem? A lot of other people on here think that the WCML is full now. And it's hard to see how HS2 will increase network resilience - are we going to see Voyagers and Pendelinos running on HS2 when the OHLE is down on the WCML?

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jamie92208

jamie92208

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Some ideas for the new Leeds HS2 station.

 

 

 

Leeds-station-visual-900x598.jpg

 

leeds_station_masterplan_front_entrance.

There's already been a scare story on the Yorkshire press that the new station is going to cost 5000 jobs because they are going to demolish the Hilton hotel (Formerly the Dragonara) and Asda's headquarters. The writer didn't appear to realise that the owners of these buildings and many others got their compulsory purchase warning notices some years ago and the one that I know is rubbing his hands with glee. Fortunatley the scare was just another piece of sloppy journalism and didn't gain any traction. Just as an aside part of HS2 in that area will be on the trackbed of the original 1758 Middleton Railway which I think is quite appropriate.

 

 

Jamie

 

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208
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Richard E

Richard E

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1. Anyone who blithely asserts that £10bn a year isn't a significant amount of money needs to have a good think. Amazon only paid £4.5 million tax last year. Comparing HS2 with the NHS is also dodgy, because the NHS benefits an awful lot more people than HS2 ever will.

 

2. Are you sure HS2 isn't about solving a current problem? A lot of other people on here think that the WCML is full now. And it's hard to see how HS2 will increase network resilience - are we going to see Voyagers and Pendelinos running on HS2 when the OHLE is down on the WCML?

At no point did I say £10bn was not a significant sum - stop putting words in my mouth please. Nor did I compare HS2 to the NHS, many detractors have said the money should go into the NHS though and it was in that respect that I was looking at the financial impact of diverting those funds.

 

As for OHLE being down it seems to me that the ECML is far more fragile in that respect, at least my own experience says that the ECML OHLE is not as robust as it might be. And I think that not one of us knows wether there will be any prospect of HS2 being used as a diversionary route although, given the limited connectivity to the existing network, I doubt it is practical. And again I never said anything of the sort in my original post so once again you are taking my post and turning it to suit your own argument.

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Covkid

Covkid

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1. Anyone who blithely asserts that £10bn a year isn't a significant amount of money needs to have a good think. Amazon only paid £4.5 million tax last year. Comparing HS2 with the NHS is also dodgy, because the NHS benefits an awful lot more people than HS2 ever will.

 

2. Are you sure HS2 isn't about solving a current problem? A lot of other people on here think that the WCML is full now. And it's hard to see how HS2 will increase network resilience - are we going to see Voyagers and Pendelinos running on HS2 when the OHLE is down on the WCML?

Voyagers and pendolinos won't be running on HS2 because they are incompatible. The new railway is being designed to accommodate high performance 250ish mph trains with suitable in cab signalling systems and power to match. Voyagers are designed to a maximum of 125mph on conventionally signalled routes. Whether they will receive ETCS signalling capability is a moot point since they will be 25+ years old when HS2 phase 1 is planned to open.  Additionally the only access to the HS2 route would be from the Euston end and obviously crew route knowledge would be questionable anyway - although the successful bidder for the next franchise is intended to operate both routes initially. I assume HS2 phase 1 is to the UK "standard" 25kV at 50hz, which pendolinos are, but again the speed variance, cab signalling and crew knowledge would be huge issues. 

 

This all assumes HS2 will be delivered anywhere near it's planned timetable.   

Edited by Covkid
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The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

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I shall watch the development near my house with interest and I shall be interested in the passenger loadings and how it affects other routes plus it will be interesting to see just what happens on these routes destination wise.My house is not devalued by HS2 its gone up due to other factors I think that now I am far more worried about government plans for housing and roads especially as one will abstract traffic from EWR.Hope you all enjoy traveling on the first train I will wave as you go by 

 

The real guide to the success of HS2 will not so much lie in counting passenger numbers on its trains but in counting additionally available paths on the WCML.  That is why it is being built, to relieve capacity problems on the WCML and those problems are best seen in pathing availability rather than most other measures.

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caradoc

caradoc

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2. Are you sure HS2 isn't about solving a current problem? A lot of other people on here think that the WCML is full now. And it's hard to see how HS2 will increase network resilience - are we going to see Voyagers and Pendelinos running on HS2 when the OHLE is down on the WCML?

 

No, but a benefit of HS2 is that in the event of a blockage on the WCML passengers could take HS2 to Birmingham and backtrack from there to say Coventry, Rugby, Northampton or Milton Keynes. Slower than normal certainly but a viable all-rail route. Another reason to build HS2 !

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Mike Storey

Mike Storey

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There's already been a scare story on the Yorkshire press that the new station is going to cost 5000 jobs because they are going to demolish the Hilton hotel (Formerly the Dragonara) and Asda's headquarters. The writer didn't appear to realise that the owners of these buildings and many others got their compulsory purchase warning notices some years ago and the one that I know is rubbing his hands with glee. Fortunatley the scare was just another piece of sloppy journalism and didn't gain any traction. Just as an aside part of HS2 in that area will be on the trackbed of the original 1758 Middleton Railway which I think is quite appropriate.

 

 

Jamie

 

 

Jamie

 

Absolutely - the sooner that gawdawful Leeds Hilton goes, the better for everyone. Moneygrabbing barstewards in a 1960's hovel.

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Kelly

Kelly

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Voyagers and pendolinos won't be running on HS2 because they are incompatible. The new railway is being designed to accommodate high performance 250ish mph trains with suitable in cab signalling systems and power to match. Voyagers are designed to a maximum of 125mph on conventionally signalled routes. Whether they will receive ETCS signalling capability is a moot point since they will be 25+ years old when HS2 phase 1 is planned to open. Additionally the only access to the HS2 route would be from the Euston end and obviously crew route knowledge would be questionable anyway - although the successful bidder for the next franchise is intended to operate both routes initially. I assume HS2 phase 1 is to the UK "standard" 25kV at 50hz, which pendolinos are, but again the speed variance, cab signalling and crew knowledge would be huge issues.

 

This all assumes HS2 will be delivered anywhere near it's planned timetable.

The pendolinos when first introduced were intended to work on the wcml at 140mph, but the upgrade work planned for the wcml ran into problems and was scaled back.

 

One aspect that was dropped was in cab signalling that the pendolinos already had the capability for, but was deemed too expensive to implement on the wcml.

 

So yes the pendolinos could well be compatible with hs2, maybe even the voyagers but I'm not sure if they were ever designed with cab signalling in mind.

 

Besides, at 25 years old there would still likely be plenty of life left in either. Some stock running now is over 40 years old or 50 years old and still going well.

Edited by Kelly
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APOLLO

APOLLO

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Just came across this document. It states Wigan NW will become an ‘integrated high speed station’, where passengers can catch HS2 trains. With trains running every hour, Birmingham will be just over half an hour away, and London less than 90 minutes. Over 15,000 passengers a day will be able to travel on the high speed network to and from Wigan.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/575898/RFS14_Wigan_V2.pdf

 

Also these

 

https://www.hs2.org.uk/stations/wigan/

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37987816

 

All good news to me - though it's better to stop here as the speed limit through Wigan, as previously mentioned, is around 60mph due to curves either end (which would cost many millions to straighten - especially the north end, 2 tracks on a high embankment).

 

I wonder if King Charles will open our new North West HS2 integrated hub ? - I can imagine -- At breakfast that morning the King was asked by Camilla what his itinerary was for today, He told her that he was off to Wigan to open HS2, and asked what attire he should wear. Camilla looked at the King, all quizzical and said “Wigan ? Wigan ? Wear the fox hat” !!!

 

Brit15

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Ron Ron Ron

Ron Ron Ron

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A 1999 view from the McLaren Building, looking towards the then Parcelforce Depot behind the Curzon St. Station building.  (image courtesy of Alan Williams)

 

0_Parcelforce-at-Curzon-Street.jpg

 

 

 

In more recent times (image: Darren Quinton).......

 

3_The-concrete-mass-beyond-Curzon-Street

 

 

2012 (images: Graham Young)......

 

2_Curzon-Street.jpg

 

0_Curzon-Street-Railway-Station-in-2012.

 

 

 

 

Work has now commenced on clearing the site of the new HS2 station (images: HS2).......

 

 

4_Breaking-up-the-concrete-with-Curzon-S

 

2_The-slab-at-the-back-of-the-Old-Curzon

 

 

 

The Curzon St. HS2 station site (image: Graham Young).

 

The archaeological dig is taking place beneath the white tented structure.

The buffer stops will be located above the tented structure in the photo, with the Queensway entrance and forecourt beyond, fronting Moor St. Queensway and adjacent to Moor St. Station.

 

0_View-of-the-HS2-archaeological-dig-whi

 

 

 

Artist's rendering of the Queensway entrance, adjacent to Moor St. Station (image: HS2).......

 

1_New-HS2-station.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

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Mike Storey

Mike Storey

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HS2 Chairman expects to be sacked

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46414477

 

No surprise. He ran Tubelines during the Jubilee Line Upgrade fiasco, far worse than the CrossRail delay. I have never met him and have no idea of his personal qualities, whereas plenty of people have acknowledged his contribution to major infrastructure, through a CBE and then a Knighthood.

 

The problem is, who on earth is left in the UK infrastructure world (that has not already retired or is of an age where they are unlikely to see through such a high pressure, high profile scheme,) that has sufficient experience, skills and credibility, to chair a scheme of this magnitude?

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locoholic

locoholic

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I'm bemused by the comment from  Manuel Cortes of the TSSA, who said "it was always nuts to have one person responsible for heading up both these enormous infrastructure projects."

 

Does he really think it's just one person making all the decisions? 

I doubt it. After all, having responsibility doesn't mean taking every decision. But then, there is one person above Sir Terry who apparently never bears any responsibility for anything - Chris Grayling.

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