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john dew

Four Bridges and a Canal at GRANBY JUNCTION: 00 GWR/LMS 1947-1948

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3 hours ago, john dew said:

Thanks for all the ticks guys...much appreciated.

 

This post features the GWR  48/14xx 0-4-2 T, designed in the 1930s specifically for Branch line work.

For many years the only RTR version available were versions from Hornby and Dapol of a very old Airfix design.

There was much excitement about 5 years ago when Hattons, in collaboration with the now defunct DJ Models, announced a brand new design incorporating all manner of new features.

Sadly, the model turned out to be a bit like the Curate's egg.....only good in part.  

Here is a  work stained 1407 in Cynwyd goods yard.
 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/853195180_114xx.jpg.0eba19c2c8b0d4b0efcf6ee53925912a.jpg

 


It is generally accepted that the bodywork is superb. There are a couple of minor design issues...the ash pan went AWOL and few people liked the recessed number plates. (I added after market plates to my model). Apart from this, visually, they were a huge improvement on the old Airfix derivatives.

Unfortunately they have proved to be very erratic performers. The coreless motor and unique gear system can sometimes make them very jerky....particularly on gradients. The biggest problem is their intolerance of the sllightest speck of dirt or uneven track.

They did appear to improve with frequent running but like last weeks 64xx still required too many nudges from the sky to keep moving.

Time to think about adding stay alive. Not a straight forward exercise.....the body cannot be easily removed!

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/1937937685_2Smokebox.jpg.bae76fd9522acd0fc4592de7efc0f478.jpg


The smoke box door is held in place by magnets and the 6 pin decoder inserted into a circuit board that just fits into the boiler........definitely no room for a stay alive capacitor as well!

However in addition to motor and pick up wires there is an additional set of wires designed to connect with a speaker in the bunker. I dont do sound (too deaf) so I was able to connect these redundant wires to the blue (+ve) and white ground wire that John from Youchoos had kindly added to the Zimo decoder for me 

Remove the coal from the bunker and the wires (now connected to the decoder in the smokebox) can be accessed


https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/1547834098_3bunker.jpg.a6a6224b1d9488aed75bf7503702cb57.jpg

I didnt think I could fit a capacitor and lifelink board in there and in any event I wanted to try out a less expensive alternative: Tantalums

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/1473705511_4Components.jpg.90853b0c4f007e9f2f71ed9e7a6c7d6d.jpg

Until a couple of weeks ago I thought Tantalums were a variety of spider!  Courtesy of google and wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_capacitor

Three of them, wired in series, will provide about a third of the storage capacity of the KAT2 I used last week....and, along with the lifelink board, fit comfortably inside the bunker.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/566145226_5assembly.jpg.12c2b98c3bb2cd01742a58a8a19ace76.jpg


Once everything was put back together the loco went on the programming track and the Cvs adjusted before re-profiling and back to work


https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/1419709879_614xxautomerged.jpg.0cf58f5cbbb72a96937212cc3f28525a.jpg


...............and the verdict?



I am afraid that the experiment cannot be described as an unqualified success.

The loco undoubtedly runs more smoothly and somewhat more reliably than before
It is not however the sort of dramatic improvement that one saw with the 64xx. That loco is now like the Ever ready bunny ...it just keeps running and and running at unbelievably low speeds. The 14xx, I am afraid, still stutters at moderately low speeds over track that other locos have no problem with

It is possible the fault lies with the loco......maybe I am expecting too much from what is now known to be a suspect design or maybe it requires a more powerful capacitor than the space available.......I guess the ultimate solution could be to hard wire it to an Autocoach containing a KAT2 (I did that once with a Hornby 14xx)
 
I will have another go with a set of tantalums in a more conventional and moderately reliable loco to try and learn how effective they can be.

 

To add to that disappointment I now find I cant watch England play France on Saturday!. Just hope the typhoon doesnt cause too much damage.

Regards from a sunny but cold Vancouver

John

 

Nice work John. I suspect that you've gone as far you can electrically and, from what I've read, the remaining problems are probably to do with the mechanical properties of the drive train.

 

France must be spitting blood at the moment! Australia v Georgia tonight - I should be home from Melbourne in time to watch that with a nice glass of something. I'm looking forward to seeing the Georgian pack in action, although AUS should still win easily. Anyway, if I've done my sums right, unless Uruguay beat Wales it won't change the rankings so let's look forward to ENG v AUS next weekend!

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I’m feeling sorry for my home nation (fortunately not the one I support) ‘cos it looks like the typhoon might seal their fate.

Paul.

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4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Nice work John. I suspect that you've gone as far you can electrically and, from what I've read, the remaining problems are probably to do with the mechanical properties of the drive train.

 

France must be spitting blood at the moment! Australia v Georgia tonight - I should be home from Melbourne in time to watch that with a nice glass of something. I'm looking forward to seeing the Georgian pack in action, although AUS should still win easily. Anyway, if I've done my sums right, unless Uruguay beat Wales it won't change the rankings so let's look forward to ENG v AUS next weekend!

 

Thanks John.....I will keep plugging away but sadly dont have the skill to build a new chassis like the good Captain.

 

One cant help wondering what impact the cancellations will have on the physce/ preparation of the teams affected by the cancellations. I think England would probably have benefited from a challenging game against France. It may have affected who played against Wales/Aus but at least both had qualified. The Scotland Japan game, if cancelled, is something quite different. I suspect World Rugby will regret not insisting on re scheduling all cancelled pool games........

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

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4 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I’m feeling sorry for my home nation (fortunately not the one I support) ‘cos it looks like the typhoon might seal their fate.

Paul.

 

I am afraid I agree with you......see my comment above. If it happens it isnt going to go away quickly.

 

Regards

 

John

 

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1 hour ago, john dew said:

Thanks John.....I will keep plugging away but sadly dont have the skill to build a new chassis like the good Captain.

This is totally off-the-wall but would the DJM body fit a Hornby chassis? Would it be worthwhile even if it did?

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33 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

This is totally off-the-wall but would the DJM body fit a Hornby chassis? Would it be worthwhile even if it did?

 

I dont think its possible......I may try and combine wheels from two Hornby 14xx and live with the body

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

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I will return to Stay Alives but for now a change of subject.

So far this year, there has been very little new stock on Granby........so lots of excitement when the Postie made this delivery:


52662817_1Warflatintro.jpg.72f30a1ccd949341e55a8e34faf90aae.jpg


Bachmann's new Warflat complete with tank. I have never quite understood how the GWR arrived at their telegraphic code names for rolling stock......Toad for a brake van...Python for a CCT. ??? At least the code Warflat bears a direct relationship to the style of wagon and its usage.

868813093_1.1Warflatonly.jpg.ab8be81baa3f33d6fd5ba2f53fe1d96a.jpg


Its expensive for a wagon (even with the tank) but it does represent a big step forward in terms of quality. Like the prototype, its robust and surprisingly weighty.

The detail is quite exquisite:

1312753944_1.2Closeup.jpg.c213bf05bb06124f80ba68e7527bcddf.jpg


There is an add on pack
 

565436409_1.5detail.jpg.795f787e0965b5c2ef2445314b95e14c.jpg



From the right....Vacuum Pipes, Highly detailed Jacks that fit over the buffers, Couplings and finally four gizmos that fit next to the jacks but I have no idea what they do.

I will need to check how the jacks work with the fairly tight curves leading in to the storage yard before permanently fixing them.


And now to the tank:


1997903212_3Side.jpg.bc5454fb7dca808fbca70d278ee84eb9.jpg


887382779_5Rear.jpg.bbd86977ee721b227f3864e74f6c8c5c.jpg


A little disappointing to be honest.......its a bit plasticky and is not really of the same standard as the wagon.

Hopefully a coat of paint and a bit of TLC will make it reasonably presentable.(The aerial recognition star will go)

The tank itself is a bit of an issue. The later version of the warflat comes with a Cromwell tank with a conventional 75 mm gun.  My warflat has the correct livery for my period (1948) but the tank is (I think) a Centaur, a variant of the Cromwell but equipped with a howitzer (note the short barrel) and used for close support with HQ Squadrons. They were used by the Royal Marines at D Day but thereafter fairly quickly off loaded to allies.....not too many would be seen heading to North Wales in 1948. But thats the challenge of modelling .....rest assured I will come up with a semi convincing legend.


A more pressing issue is working out how to secure them to the wagons

933958033_6Magnet.jpg.39401a037ec373be7af05a5c5af597d0.jpg

The fiited magnets will help but, in isolation, would not be entirely realistic! I have to devise a method of fixing diagonal securing chains fore and aft. In transit the turrets were reversed and the gun muzzle covered. The secondary armament 7.92 Besa machine guns were removed from the housing and transported separately.

 

I have a question for the experts.....here is a close up of one of the machine guns

 

416428122_9MGCloseup.jpg.b6ace37f5763258da68c7212053d86c7.jpg

 

I am assuming the removeable bit is the gun metal barrel (easy to snip off) and the khaki housing from which the barrel protrudes remains with the tank being part of the gun port swivel mechanism?

 


Once completed and weathered they will be coupled with the Warwell and Comet. I bought the Comet kit from Millicast a couple of years ago......it does rather show up the Centaur



1513429119_7Comet.jpg.f48110dfbed7baac03ae46daea49089a.jpg


The Comet is totally appropriate for my period but, as you can see, is (like the prototype) out of gauge requiring a special working........but having checked, it will squeeze through the fiddle yard.

Hopefully, you will see a rake like this but properly secured and weathered, before Christmas


973155420_8Train.jpg.304a5fba9c6d2d567ac7c113c441c29b.jpg


I hope that I havent bored you with these ramblings......I know that I can verge towards rivet counting when it comes to the military.

Anyone know why almost all British Army tanks have names beginning with C?

Regards from Vancouver

John
 

4 Front.jpg

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Happy modelling John. What are you going to use, so I can nick the idea, to cover the gun muzzle for transport.

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32 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Happy modelling John. What are you going to use, so I can nick the idea, to cover the gun muzzle for transport.

 

Not sure.......I wondered about some fabric from Mrs D’s old tights......its one of those details that is better forgotten if you cant get it right

 

John

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On 18/10/2019 at 17:16, john dew said:

 

I am assuming the removeable bit is the gun metal barrel (easy to snip off) and the khaki housing from which the barrel protrudes remains with the tank being part of the gun port swivel mechanism?

 

 

You are correct John.  Snip away using the photo on ANTB as a guide - good photo frm T&A posted.

Edited by M.I.B
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<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< It is possible the fault lies with the loco......maybe I am expecting too much from what is now known to be a suspect design or maybe it requires a more powerful capacitor than the space available.......I guess the ultimate solution could be to hard wire it to an Autocoach containing a KAT2 (I did that once with a Hornby 14xx)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

It seems I've heard this tale before ever since the Airfix version came on the OO scene.  I went through all those problems back then and was one of the prime reasons for me to switch to tinplate as I was more or less assured of more reliable running.  It wasn't really a hard transition as I already had a small Lionel layout but the prospect of running old Hornby on a full size layout was enhanced when we moved house to here in WA.  The OO was duly disposed of  and the proceeds to building the new layout and adding track and stock.  While that solution worked for me, John, I wouldn't expect everybody to do the same; in my case there was a nascent desire to switch anyway and fortunately it has worked for me.

On the other hand, I still visit Granby every now and again and realise that I could never have achieved such a layout especially now that tempus is fugiting quite swiftly!:mellow:

       Brian.

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Just been catching up with developments at Granby. Thanks for the info regarding the stay alive capacitors John, it’s all food for thought about my own locos.

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Longish post.....Despite being diverted by the Rugby I have managed to complete one of the Fall's major projects.

I spent a lot of time earlier in the year creating local passenger services to and from the "south" or right hand side of the storage yard. The only way I could squeeze 4 extra trains into an already crowded yard was to run them all into Down storage siding #5.......run a swift loco exchange and store them elsewhere...in fact wherever I could find a spare siding. 

This rather fuzzy shot shows one of the trains..... the Ruabon B set crossing over from the Up line to enter the Down Storage yard

1753046313_1Intro.jpg.4d82928dc8bd8e5ae8b0e22a1f895ff5.jpg


Siding #5 is the one empty space you can see in the middle distance.

A second train (from Barmouth) is stored in the siding to the right. A third train is stored at Granby carriage sidings and the fourth I managed to fit in front of the Up Express at the other end of the storage yard.

The routine for all four trains is broadly the same. Enter D5....uncouple and pull clear....relief loco couples and the train is ready for the return journey

The relieved locos were then turned/stored in one of the two turntable exits.                  


797793632_2TTwithDean.jpg.b5694d232dfa03e02b4c6f5751230dab.jpg

Its a Fleischmann TT that I bought second hand over 20 years ago.

To get it to work with DCC and RR&Co involved a Heath Robinson mix of Point Motors, Reeds and Magnets .......some of which were concealed under the Engine Shed:


1541164035_3Switches.jpg.832ac9ad0948794a6cf326119fbdcd85.jpg

It  actually worked fine but this system could, realistically,only handle two exits.

Its quite cumbersome trying to manouver 4 relief locos in two exits particularly as one road has to be cleared whenever a Milk/Fruit or Parcels loco needs turning


Its a far cry from the main turntable


1957093822_4MainTT.jpg.ef6c0afbff4361915e2d1928a93970c9.jpg


Where this device handles 16 exits without turning a hair

337468294_5Turncontrolold.jpg.9087570010a9de120777d956d983b307.jpg


(Ignore the DCC Concepts unit alongside....just sharing the shelf)

The Fleischman Turncontrol unit is an amazing piece of kit.......its a pleasure to handle and integrates seamlessly with the computor. 

It slowly dawned on me that it could also operate the antique storage TT ........not the cheapest option but after a limited amount of soul searching:



 

159882690_6DualTurncontrol.jpg.c222fd360588813444e8299f853b702c.jpg



That was the easy part......now to hook it up.........under the duck under to the other side

Remove the library....

952404309_6.4bookcase.jpg.4320a07a3abdd6eca7e95944fdb94e66.jpg

No problem:

1688387480_6.5Space.jpg.67d8b9026a3dcb27a40ca03672038f7b.jpg


And then the problems really started!  I had completely forgotten that the lower branch line baseboard was not a 12" shelf.......it was 4' deep........in the dim and distant past this was going to be a coal mine served by the branch!

When this plan was superseded by the storage TT I had just inserted a second baseboard 5" above the old one creating an almost inaccessible void.

Lots of fun trying to insert droppers through that lot   

1949329088_7Tracks.jpg.9ea750ae9b0066acb9f73a60b08bab14.jpg


In the end I had to surface mount the droppers and conceal them with ash ballast and a somewhat unlikely shrubbery.

The final connection was made by drilling one very large hole through both baseboards (Naturally I managed to find part of a supporting beam as well)

I always maintained this would be a warts and all thread.......

Finally, after a not entirely stress free fortnight, we have moved from two exits to seven:


777093713_8notrains.jpg.6f3ac33f86055b1027c70bc60a49b198.jpg


Including a dedicated road for each of the four local passenger relief locos

474068895_30Locos.jpg.6e0543a95a257c47c4081bdf65a26753.jpg


From the left

Barmouth     7802 Bradley Manor   
Crewe          LMS Ivatt  2-6-2T       
Oswestry     6698 56xx  0-6-2T ........on temporary loan from the coal run until the Hornby large prairies arrive
Ruabon        4550 Small Prairie

I always like to finish with a black and white shot if projects..........eventually..........turn out ok


233736210_31_2BW.jpg.ef588932e4a6da0148b469a9913261cb.jpg


So the next few days will be spent alternating between concern that England may have emptied the tank and quiet confidence that all will be well. Who could not be impressed by that defiant yet respectful response to the Haka.

 

Regards from Vancouver where it is sunny but frost overnight

 

John

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Great update John. Its amazing how often we think "It will be fine, wont need to get to that inaccessible place again" lol

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On 11/09/2019 at 17:03, gwrrob said:

I've just seen that a company called Wild Boar Models do the ramp wagon we need too John. I'm investigating...

 

I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here John.:banghead:

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1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 

I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here John.https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_dash1.gif

 

No luck?

 

I dont think I can accommodate more than 2 warflats + warwell + brake van and loco So fortunately both Tenby (for Castlemartin) and Granby (off scene) have loading ramps:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 

I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here John.https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_dash1.gif

 

No luck?

 

I dont think I can accommodate more than 2 warflats + warwell + brake van and loco So fortunately both Tenby (for Castlemartin) and Granby (off scene) have loading ramps:rolleyes:

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9 minutes ago, john dew said:

 

No luck?

 

 

No replies from the supplier by email or pm. I'm not ordering them without one.

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A few weeks ago I posted about some experiments with stay alives.

In a poor performing Bachmann 64xx Pannier I replaced a Lenz decoder with a Zimo decoder and attached a TCS KAT2 keep alive. The results were amazing .....the video showed it continuing to move for about 18" after the power was cut off.

I then turned my attention to a DJM/Hattons 14xx 0-4-2T. Notoriously indifferent runners and mine was no exception. Space constraints prevented the use of a full fat  capacitor so I added 3 Tantalums (lower volume but significantly lower capacity). You may recall that I found the results a bit ho-hum. There was an overall improvement in running but still some hesitation at low speed and the occasional hand from God to start.

I put them both back on the layout with their autocoaches and got on with other things.However, regardless of the project of the day, on most evenings I run both autocoach schedules.......with a glass of wine....quite therapeutic.

 
1887892293_5114xx.jpg.4a11db73c293ea81621dfbd82e326c80.jpg



It slowly dawned on me that I had  been a bit hasty with my initial assessment.......... the 14xx was actually running impeccably.......shuttling back and forth (on an admittedly undemanding schedule) .......untouched by human hand.

 


Time to give the same treatment to my other DJM 14xx.....58xx 5801

 

2042876098_25801CoalStaithes.jpg.e3d06aa6ad3e67aeb5b6471feccfd55b.jpg

 



Not all the 0-4-2s were autofitted. The 58xx sub class were used on branch good and standard branch passenger diagrams. I had hoped to use 5801 on the Cynwyd B Set. Although a better runner than 1407 she still proved unreliable and had been relegated to "pottering"......on the layout but no schedules.....one step away from the display case

The set up was identical....decoder in smokebox and redundant speaker wires used to connect to lifelink and tantalum assembly......all stored in bunker

 

325853270_5assembly.jpg.71da732363f5c17cc30f633b1850a309.jpg325853270_5assembly.jpg.71da732363f5c17cc30f633b1850a309.jpg

 




And here in a 45 second video is the result.......

 


 

 

 

 

 

1755819146_45801bywatercrane.jpg.65bfd8c799cda82912da327b0ac484f0.jpg



 I havent done a price comparison with other stay alives but 20GBP for 3 tantalums and a lifelink board doesnt seem unreasonable to convert a "potterer" back to a scheduled loco. 

I dont think its solely the stay alive element.....I am very impressed with the Zimo decoders. Same price as the Lenz Standard (my default decoder) and about a third of the size. I have always found that Lenz decoders provide very smooth transitions between the speed steps but the Zimo is ultra ultra smooth.In the years before I retired I generally drove a Volvo.....for a brief period I had a Lexus.....same difference!

Despite a zillion Zimo CVs and a manual longer than a Trollope novel, I stuck to my normal practice.....I dont adjust CVs very much..... set the max speed between 30 and 40 mph (anything more looks daft on Granby) and the mid speed value to give a slightly concave slope. However on the advice of the ever helpful John Gwymer of Youchoos I set CV 56 to 22  (Back EMF) and CV 57 to 125. (14xx has a coreless motor) this eliminated the juddering that used to frequently occur with this model.


A happy camper in Vancouver  (not literally ....it is sunny but quite cold)

John

Edited by john dew
corrected Youtube link....thank you Martin!
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The Youtube link works but I have forgotten how to set it up to show the picture rather than the link.......hopefully someone can point out my error

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1 hour ago, john dew said:

The Youtube link works but I have forgotten how to set it up to show the picture rather than the link.......hopefully someone can point out my error

 

All done thanks to Martin Wynne

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Outstanding work John, not only on the tank weathering, and the WARFLAT, but the shackles and loading are perfect.

 

That is the standard and pattern which perfectionists  should aim for.

 

Apart from your buildings, which I am always envious of, this is in my opinion your best piece of modelling.

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On 26/04/2019 at 02:48, john dew said:

In addition to the figures, I got a batch of GWR (WR) head and tail lamps from Modelu
 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_04/918037455_1HeadLamps.jpg.b8fa0c5a480a387ba13d9e02ef4a2208.jpg



Unlike the Springside models these dont come ready to plonk. They have to be painted and the tiny shiny lens inserted

A neat idea, which I had forgotten to use until this batch, is the minute slot in the base of each lamp.

With a pair of tweezers you can insert the lamp on to the relevant iron on the loco or coach.......no more fiddling around with super glue.Still has to be glued to older stock of course
 

These shots do show what a high standard Horbvy have achieved with these Collet non corridor coaches


https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_04/1016350960_2Side.jpg.29add74c6c723a853dde41c8392ef91d.jpg


https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_04/523866655_3Rear.jpg.a66d1db4ffc4009890fb4749d4c14054.jpg

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_04/960145853_4RearCloseUp.jpg.a7dcd8f704192f7a9fb96842ddebfbe6.jpg

I suspect I will still top and tail my coach rakes and those tank engines that work bunker first but it will definitely make changing loco head codes much easier!

 

As an aside this close up sure exposes the difference between Railtec transfers (Granby Division) and the ancient #12 I applied from my leftover box. Not my wisest move hopefully some discreet weathering will make it less obvious



Regards from a sunny Vancouver

I realise this is a rather late question John, are those particular Railtec transfers under the 'Custom' Text transfer product. Hoping to change my set from Birmingham to London Division

 

Connor

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4 hours ago, M.I.B said:

Outstanding work John, not only on the tank weathering, and the WARFLAT, but the shackles and loading are perfect.

 

That is the standard and pattern which perfectionists  should aim for.

 

Apart from your buildings, which I am always envious of, this is in my opinion your best piece of modelling.

 

Thank you Tinker that is really very generous of you and much appreciated.

 

Your advice and interest in the project were very helpful but I must confess added just that touch of pressure as I wondered about your eventual reaction.

 

With that reply I really can enjoy my pre-dinner glass of wine!

 

Cheers

 

John

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