Jump to content
 

GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!


john dew
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Premium

Well done John - not only for finding it and sorting it, but also explaining it all in an understandable way!

 

Happy Canada Day for tomorrow.

  • Agree 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Thanks Tinker.

 

Sadly I think it will be wet tomorrow:(.......more modelling time though!

 

Hope the building is going well.

 

Best wishes

 

John

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Sounds like a bit of an ordeal John. I had a short recently (caused by heat expansion as it turned out) and even on my tiny layouts it can be confounding to work out. I can well imagine the frustration of having to identify the problem on your size of layout. Good thing your methodological and patient approach worked out.

 

The 14xx project sounds interesting. Will you be replacing the actual wheels or the whole chassis?

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
16 hours ago, john dew said:

I know from past experience that these devices (although very useful) are not as robust as Lenz components. I normally always have the power switched off when working with them.  

That wouldn't always help John, as I discovered a few years ago. They have internal capacitors that that stay charged even when power is off. I accidentally shorted one to another component which killed that whole segment of the decoder module. I gather that the more recent version has a proper power-down arrangement that leaves no residual charge.

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
12 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Sounds like a bit of an ordeal John. I had a short recently (caused by heat expansion as it turned out) and even on my tiny layouts it can be confounding to work out. I can well imagine the frustration of having to identify the problem on your size of layout. Good thing your methodological and patient approach worked out.

 

The 14xx project sounds interesting. Will you be replacing the actual wheels or the whole chassis?

 

Hi Mikkel

 

It was not fun at all. Apart from the uncertainty that I would find a solution there also was the realisation of how much time would be wasted putting everything together again. I was extremely lucky that the fault was on Circuit 3 which runs under the front edge of the baseboard. All that cutting and testing was, at least, accomplished from the comfort of an armchair. It would have been rather different if it had been on  Circuit 4  which runs under the centre of the baseboard.......not sure with my eyesight/back if I would have managed.

 

I am afraid that only the tyred wheels will be replaced on the 14xx. I tried building a chassis for one for almost 30 years ago .........not a happy experience. Model railways are great at exposing ones limitations without causing too much harm!

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That wouldn't always help John, as I discovered a few years ago. They have internal capacitors that that stay charged even when power is off. I accidentally shorted one to another component which killed that whole segment of the decoder module. I gather that the more recent version has a proper power-down arrangement that leaves no residual charge.

 

Correct .....the newer ones have a blue indicator light that remains on for quite a while after the power is switched off. The other fault with the initial launch was they had no memory of the polarity setting. After a power outage (planned or not) they reverted to the default polarity setting........regardless of the actual blade setting!  There were some work arounds like making sure that at least the default polarity matched the normal position but it was still a pain.

 

I only use them where I have been forced to use surface mounted points for a repair or addition and I cant retrofit a tortoise. I have spare decoder capacity for stall motors so hopefully I can replace the binned ADSFX with a Gaugemaster GM500D unit (by a very fortunate chance 3 are already on their way here!)

 

I was very conscious of your immaculate wiring when I was posting (particularly when inserting the photos )  I hope you were not too appalled!:D

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Evening a John,

 

Been there, done that. Even so it’s still a very frustrating process in identifying these sort of faults.

 

Excellent that having gone through all of it, you were able to write it up in such a lucid manner.

 

These frustrations are sent to try us!

 

Have a good Canada day.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

 

 

 

219959620_1intro14xx.jpg.f0c2162698970a41c87d154416c79e7b.jpg


14xx 0-4-2T the quintessential GWR branchline loco.....


Unfortunately, until recently, the only RTR loco available was the ex Airfix Hornby/Dapol version

I have always found them to be unreliable runners and I hate the traction tyres. I did eventually get two running ok but only as a result of permanently coupling them to Autocoaches, to which I had added pickups and wired in  enormous Stay Alives.

When the DJM/Hattons locos were released, the Dapol locos disappeared, with a sigh of relief, into the graveyard drawer to join other failures. One of which was my first and only attempt to build a loco chassis. This doomed effort proved conclusively how wise I was not to attempt a career in Engineering......far better to focus on Women's fashion........I have no problem determining the best shade of Green for a loco!    

I was probably a bit premature in celebrating the DJM release but with the aid of Zimo decoders and SA they now do regular automated runs on Granby. 

Ever since, the Dapol locos have sat in the graveyard drawer, gathering dust; waiting for me to pluck up courage to replace the traction tired driving wheel set.


1360372653_25x14xx.jpg.0f890f815f524f6c2ff12ade4d0de59b.jpg

I guess there was some margin of error in that I had four available sets to work with!


The actual wheel replacement was much easier than I had imagined

 

2013883121_4.5wheels.jpg.6e7aef8394987fd72b6a701a29d5c29b.jpg


The connecting rod retaining pin is just a push fit easily prised clear with a screwdriver. The wheel itself is also a push fit on the serrated stub of the axle.


I am getting a little ahead of myself because first the body had to be removed followed by the keeper plate:


1969838102_3Components.jpg.cf6124421b97001f6605dc4ae2b59062.jpg

And there you have it .....the basic components of the 14xx

For some bizarre reason I was reminded of my Army days.....stripping and assembling a Sten Gun.....and being surprised at how an effective device could be made up of so few parts.

Not sure about the Sten nowadays but by the time I finished the project I had definitely become an expert in stripping and assembling the 14xx


989645959_4.2Body.jpg.e5d2ead9df16dda1adba409def4d553d.jpg

The paint scraped off the body is an essential part of the design. Somewhat to my surprise the body is live. The etched collector plate is protected by a layer of plastic



.990286708_4.8Keeperplate.jpg.6c5fbdd8b1c8691cee505babaf38df97.jpg

Top right on the plate you can see a slightly raised tab which is unprotected......this contacts the exposed surface of the body and provides the left hand pick up. The RH being via the black wire (no colour coding in those days)

There are actually pick ups on all three wheel sets which I hadnt appreciated. The wipers are protected on the inside by the plastic interface and are a right pain when trying to replace the keeper plate. Almost inevitably one protective strip becomes misplaced/jammed and it was not uncommon for a pick up to become similarly mis-shapen. In fact the LH Front pick up above succumbed to metal fatigue and I had to substitute a different keeper plate from the "spares " box

Once the tired wheels had been replaced, everything except the body was reassembled for testing on my rudimentary DC test track

 

1607971219_5testingonDC.jpg.4cac2996ae481feb00f5040c1e27273a.jpg


Electrically I had no issues......... everything went smoothly. Mechanically it was a different story. I understand the basic concept of quartering (I think) but never having done it before and having no tools ( I assume there is some device?) it all had to be done by eye........ie trial and error.......lots of stripping and re assembling....hence my new found expertise!


Finally I got it sorted and was pleasantly supplied at how smoothly it ran..........time to add a decoder:

Unfortunately I then got a little ahead of myself......I fitted a Zimo MX617 and found room in the bunker for a 6700 u/f Supercap.....same configuration I now have in all my Panniers......checked everything on the programming track and the performance was absolutely stunning. Body back on.....crew in (legs intact) and off running on the layout...........but forgot to take any photos!

So in view of that success here is a photo of a second converted loco  (why not.... I have enough spares!)

 

1587665007_7Chip.jpg.c4e64ce0890876f87246c341f509c416.jpg


You may have wondered why there was a second loco in the DC test photo........here it is ......all done with decoder fitted and blue and grey wires waiting for a Supercap from Youchoos.


When I started on this exercise I wasnt really expecting much. At best, hooked up to an autocoach out and back or perhaps, a horse box roundy roundy, neither involving any uncoupling. In fact the loco performs with more accuracy and at lower speeds than the better of my two DJM 14xx.

 

Visually, despite the finishing touches I have added, she is not in quite the same league:

 

 

974947044_12DJMDapol.jpg.ebf019f6a628dc4c8a3ada9341755fef.jpg


She is still looks a bit clunky but will definitely pass muster as an ultra reliable RR&Co layout loco. Now I have to decide where best to employ her.

I think I need to make a quick video to prove that all this adulation is justified.

Regards from a very happy camper in Vancouver

John

Edited by john dew
Photos 24/8/22
  • Like 10
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Craftsmanship/clever 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work John

 

Since moving to EM around two years ago I have become interested in taking older models and seeing what can be done with them, partly because modern mechanisms are so fiddly and difficult to work on, and I like the challenge of taking a more basic model ad seeing what I can do with it.

 

Like you I have no background in engineering but I have managed to build a couple of Comet chassis in EM, if you can quarter by eye I'm sure you could build a chassis.

 

Still really enjoy updates to your site

 

Regards

 

Martyn

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
18 hours ago, mullie said:

Great work John

 

Since moving to EM around two years ago I have become interested in taking older models and seeing what can be done with them, partly because modern mechanisms are so fiddly and difficult to work on, and I like the challenge of taking a more basic model ad seeing what I can do with it.

 

Like you I have no background in engineering but I have managed to build a couple of Comet chassis in EM, if you can quarter by eye I'm sure you could build a chassis.

 

Still really enjoy updates to your site

 

Regards

 

Martyn

 

 

Hi Martyn

 

Glad you like my posts........thank you. You are right about the complexity of modern mechanisms. The Hattons/DJM 14xx is perhaps, in every sense,  a special case but I doubt if I could strip and assemble that!

 

You clearly have far greater mechanical aptitude than I if you are building in EM. I do admire and envy that skill level  but I am afraid it is not for me...............although I must admit if somebody doesnt come out soon with an RTR PBV I may be forced to try my hand again with Comet sides!

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

  • Like 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 09/07/2020 at 05:04, trw1089 said:

Silk purse and all that John, well done!  The weathering you’ve done on the recent ones certainly looks the part.

 

Cheers

Tony

 

Thanks Tony........from an expert like you that is praise indeed.

 

I guess I have learned a lot from you over the years.

 

This opening shot of 1420 is the original weathering I did 10+ years ago before I started using powders..........I am afraid I didnt dilute the grimy black wash  and then didnt wipe it down properly

 

 

 

854352342_1intro14xx.jpg.805f1bdb4bf52c07e1a1be624f3b1181.jpg

 

 

It was the only body with a shirt button (the livery I wanted) . I renumbered it to 1401 (Croess Newydd 1947) and tried to create a more balanced overall look.

 

 

1763352803_12DJMDapol.jpg.26eb58c477931f077878f143eedc69db.jpg

 

 

..........although looking at it again  I think I need a light dusting of powder on the smoke box ......I wanted a sheen not the look of a Guardsman's toe cap! The spare lamp should be less pristine too.

 

The loco on the left, 5801, is the DJM version shown as a comparison. ............The original weathering was one of the disappointments of the release......it was supposed to be lightly weathered but came with a very heavy uniform brown spray....totally lacking in subtlety. Again I attempted to balance it out using powders.

 

Hope you are keeping well despite everything

 

John

 

 

 

Edited by john dew
24/8/2022 Photos
  • Like 7
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

All good here John, very few cases in our state but a big outbreak down south has us a bit concerned.  The work from home thing has been a boon for my modelling though, no travel and knocking off around 5ish means lots of time for the layouts you’ve seen on my thread.

 

Re the weathering, to be honest I really prefer 1401 to 5801 because it really highlights the detail well and has enough variety to keep the eye interested.  Factory weathering is just too uniform usually.  One of the things I try to do is make every “panel” slightly different as it was a trick I learnt from a 3D artist who worked for a software company as it keeps the eye “busy”.  That might mean differences in sheen, marks on the boiler or tanks, fire irons etc.  For 5801 I think the flat look all over is what still makes it not quite as good as 1401.  Maybe a coat of floor polish on the tanks, cab sides and bunker might help, but as always, if you have a pic of a similar tank engine, that is the best guide.  
 

In the end though, the result you have got from resurrection of the Dapol version is one you should be very satisfied with!

 

Cheers

Tony

  • Like 2
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
8 hours ago, john dew said:

although I must admit if somebody doesnt come out soon with an RTR PBV I may be forced to try my hand again with Comet sides!

A K40 using Comet sides on an old Airfix or successors' B Set shouldn't be too traumatic.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
9 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

A K40 using Comet sides on an old Airfix or successors' B Set shouldn't be too traumatic.


Thats what I was alluding to

 

About 4 years ago Mallard did all the hard yards for me on just such a project . The Comet sides were delivered to him in the UK and half a B Set shuttled back and forth across North America.
 

I spent forever doing the finishing and I guess it can be described as an ok layout van....Mallards contribuition was super but I am not that satisfied with my part.......hence the reluctance.

 

But never say never!

 

John


 

  • Friendly/supportive 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Thanks for that walk through of the project John, very useful and well executed. I think you underestimate your own skills.

 

Can it pull less now without the tyres? (Not that it could ever pull much!)

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Hi Mikkel

 

Good question

 

I hadnt really thought about that because at most it will pull two coaches and a van.......it does that with ease  Including the rather fierce gradient up from the branch level

 

I will try it on the long goods train and let you know.

 

Best wishes

 

John

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 09/07/2020 at 21:03, Mikkel said:

Thanks for that walk through of the project John, very useful and well executed. I think you underestimate your own skills.

 

Can it pull less now without the tyres? (Not that it could ever pull much!)

 

On 10/07/2020 at 07:56, john dew said:

Good question   I hadnt really thought about that because at most it will pull two coaches and a van.......it does that with ease  Including the rather fierce gradient up from the branch level

 

I will try it on the long goods train and let you know.

 

 

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words:

 

 

 

 

1075323988_8Closeup.jpg.d98c8349e2cf3f2dc3eb06e4b9f39a61.jpg

 

 

 

 

651511245_10LongShot.jpg.0e248b928916e47a2e5d1f93dcc6b69c.jpg

 

 

1576807785_11BW.jpg.eabd7f73eeda8c4535a680b01c5e670c.jpg

 

 

Helicopter shot. If the pilot flew any higher he would have needed oxygen....or more accurately .......I would have fallen off the step ladder.

 

There are 5 more wagons and the Brake Van out of shot! That is a total 18 wagons (Well wagon counts as 2) which is about the longest I can fit in the storage yard. In addition to the curve there is a slight gradient. The 14 xx managed it with ease.

 

Rather begs the question of why Dapol and Hornby persisted with traction tyres after they changed the chassis and upgraded the motor. Hard to believe this is just because of the Zimo Chip plus a Supercap.

 

A surprised and happy camper in Vancouver

 

John

 

 

Edited by john dew
24/8/2022 Photos
  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Thanks for testing it out John, and what a bonus. Next time I come across my old 14xx I'll look at it with different eyes.

 

59 minutes ago, john dew said:

Rather begs the question of why Dapol and Hornby persisted with traction tyres after they changed the chassis and upgraded the motor. Hard to believe this is just because of the Zimo Chip plus a Supercap.

 

Yes indeed. Maybe they never thought to check!

 

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Thanks Neal

 

I must admit I am very chuffed with the result.......its such a pleasure operating the loco....low speed and not a moments hesitation over uneven track or the few insulfrog points I have left.

 

I was about to write to you.....you may have found it already but last night while browsing Dart Castings List I saw they had a horse trough and drinking fountain set.

 

Best wishes

 

John

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
16 hours ago, john dew said:

Thanks Neal

 

I must admit I am very chuffed with the result.......its such a pleasure operating the loco....low speed and not a moments hesitation over uneven track or the few insulfrog points I have left.

 

I was about to write to you.....you may have found it already but last night while browsing Dart Castings List I saw they had a horse trough and drinking fountain set.

 

Best wishes

 

John


Thanks for that John. I have seen both Dart castings and also Langley websites and am collecting bits at the moment ready to tackle the new pub scene.

 

Ive been diverted again, so have been slow going back to it!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Thanks Guys for all the ticks on the Dapol 14xx conversion posts. Here is the promised video.


I havent worked out yet which schedules 1401 will operate on a regular basis........Autotrain or B Set..... but it will definitely be on the lower level Cynwyd Branch:
 

596736159_1Runninginboard.jpg.dea6ea4fe58ee870f6330c35dd6c3c09.jpg

 


936913703_2Canopy.jpg.93564d4661cd4bfde8d06cf1480b526c.jpg


It will probably be the B Set........she performs so reliably and with such precision at slow speeds that consistent coupling and uncoupling is a given.
I have produced a very short video to demonstrate this. .

1401 hauls a two car set and van into Cynwyd. Uncouples the van from the carriages and pulls it foward to clear the bay turnout. Once clear the van is propelled into the bay and uncoupled. The loco then propels the uncoupled van to the buffers at the end of the bay. The loco then returns to the carriages in the running line, couples and continues to Granby.

Its probably no surprise that the six movements or schedules in the sequence are all performed automatically! I click a virtual switch to start the first schedule and then everything follows including the Kadee Uncoupling Shuffles.

The shuffles are accomplished by using the  "Short Distance Moves"   at speed step 02

In the video the increments I used are even smaller .......0.3 inch and 0.2 inch. I was amazed how reponsive the 1401 was.

The move were the uncoupled van is pushed to the buffers was something of a breakthrough for me. Not wanting to bore everybody  I have added a paragraph after the video for the hard core RR&Co enthusiasts.

So without further ado here is the video
 

 

 

 


For RR&Co followers:


The short distance move command (SDM) is a brilliant innovation. However it is exactly that  a move over a short distance. You can use the command to move a loco over longer distances but only at threshold speed. A loco crawling for 6" at 2 mph looks daft.


Since the introduction of SDM you can no longer use the Train Operations like  /Reverse/Speed at the conclusion of a schedule. TC issues an error message "cant change speed or direction of a schedule while under control of a schedule"


I struggled to find a way round this for ages.....finally posted a query on the RR forum and got virtually no response..........re read the manual......there's a novel approach. I discovered that you can attach a switch to a specified block. Train Operations in that switch can be automatically carried out by a loco assigned to that block!


So I created a switch for the bay and had it turned on as the last command of the bay schedule . The first switch command terminated the schedule and was followed by commands that moved the loco forward at 5mph for  4 secs and then 3mph and 2 mph so the van just kissed the buffers.


I had no idea this could be done.....the explanation in the manual is typically opaque........was I being dense and is this, in fact, a well known, often used, option?  Comments/Discussion much appreciated


Best wishes


John

 

Edited by john dew
Amending video link
  • Like 7
  • Craftsmanship/clever 5
  • Round of applause 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Most impressive John.

Having researched stock for my layout I will be needing to add/subtract vans and coaches so I’m pleased that RR&Co can be made to do that.  I also will want some switch triggered moves so I’m glad it can still be done.

Paul.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...