GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[St Enodoc]

Excellent match from Brisbane, dominated by heroic defence from both sides with some massive hits. Proper rugby for once. Oh, and yes SA v E is on Fox Sports here at 0130 Sunday morning so the recorder is set.

First half was like each side having an unopposed 20 minute training run. After half time things got much tighter with some good attack and good defence all round. No teasers on the result or score yet.

Edited June 9, 2018 by St Enodoc

[john dew]

. No teasers on the result or score yet.

We need to establish a protocol.....when can we talk about it? It sounded like a very exciting but kind of weird game.

[St Enodoc]

We need to establish a protocol.....when can we talk about it? It sounded like a very exciting but kind of weird game.

I suppose that those people who are interested know by now, so here goes.

 

England scored three tries in the first twenty minutes, then South Africa came back with four of their own to lead 29 - 24 at half time. The home side scored another, with England wilting from the altitude and hampered by a sin-bin for Mako Vunipola, but the visitors found their second wind to score twice more themselves. Final score RSA 42, ENG 39. A three-point margin in an 80-point game? More like "Super" rugby than a test match methinks. Entertaining enough, but both sides will need to up their defensive game if they want to make a mark in Japan next year.

[john dew]

I agree......Englands defence has been leaky fora year now. The other concern is the penalty count 17-4 I believe......difficult to win a tight game if you concede penalties like that.......Saturday will be interesting

[john dew]

 

This is not so much an update.....more a tale of woe!

 

While pressing on with the ballasting, I clumsily knocked over a jar of ballast ....emptying the contents into the well of the turntable. Not surprisingly the turntable no longer works. Its immensely frustrating not least because I am not sufficiently competent electro mechanically to determine what part needs to be replaced...always assuming i can obtain and fit the component.

 

Keith (Melmerby) is kindly helping me from afar and if you are at all interested you can read my cry for help here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/25-modelling-questions-help-and-tips/

 

In February I bought an Oxford Dean Goods from Hattons. It turned out to be a poor runner and finally ceased running. Hattons would not replace it because I told them I had invalidated the warranty (trimmed the interior of the tender to accommodate the decoder, painted the hand rails). After some discussion they agreed that i could return the loco and they would then send it on to oxford for repair.

 

On wednesday the loco was finally returned to me. Oxford had replaced the wheelset and tested the loco giving it a clean bill of health. i put the loco on the DC test track.....zero movement. Took the body off and connected the motor terminals direct to the DC....nothing. The motor isnt resting , its clearly nailed to its perch and dead. Its back in its box and ready to go back accross the Atlantic to Hattons for onward transmission to Oxford.......a much travelled Dean...I just wish it was collecting air miles for me!

 

All in all, a less than perfect week. On the other hand we are both fit and healthy and the weather is gorgeous...we will have a bumper crop of apples and plums.......one must retain a sense of perspective.

 

Ps i will say nothing about the rugby.

[M.I.B]

Sorry to hear of your woes John, and you are good to be positive - there is worse going on in the world, and with a crop like that - crumbles can't be far away.

 

I will get my new Ox ford Dean out of its box ASAP and give it a spin on DC.  Thanks for the heads up.

 

And good luck with the turntable.

[BWsTrains]

Hi John,

 

Re "This is not so much an update.....more a tale of woe!"

 

Sorry to learn all this. See the PM I've sent you,

 

Colin

[john dew]

Sorry to hear of your woes John, and you are good to be positive - there is worse going on in the world, and with a crop like that - crumbles can't be far away.

 

I will get my new Ox ford Dean out of its box ASAP and give it a spin on DC.  Thanks for the heads up.

 

And good luck with the turntable.

Many thanks for all the hearts gentlemen....quite morale boosting

 

Thanks for the good wishes Tinker ......I just got a useful reply to my help post.....fingers crossed

 

Glad your Dean tested ok. Cant recollect whether you have standardised on Lenz Chips? If you have , bear in mind its a very very tight fit to squeeze a standard into the tender.....hence my carving out mod! You may be better with a Silver Mini.

 

Best wishes

[M.I.B]

Thanks John - I will buy a silver mini on my next batch/bulk buy.  

 

But if a gold fits with some tender mods I don't mind that either - the shop won't want it back once I have carved off the smoke box number and put Modelmasters plates on it.  So I could mod the tender if you believe that it's an option.

 

I had a silver Mini when I lived in Berlin nearly 30 years ago:. great for the City but awful on long trips.  I hated working on anything in the engine bay - too restrictive.  I had always had beetles up to this point and I could drop an engine out in 30 minutes, and I always had two or three spares ready to go in the garage.  I went back to beetles after the Mini........and I still have one now.

[St Enodoc]

Ps i will say nothing about the rugby.

Nor will I.

[john dew]

Everyone likes a happy ending...........and I dont just mean the Rugby!

 

Normal service is about to be resumed at Granby.

 

On my please help post a guy with the nom de plume "Daltonparva" was very helpful and patiently took me through a series of tests designed to identify the problem (s) with the turntable

 

I found that the underside of the bridge is a mixture of ingenious technology combined with a dash of Heath Robinson

 

 

A solenoid activated either manually (by the little plastic lever) or electrically through the multi contact slip ring on the circuit board operates the motor. The motor through a worm and a series of gear wheels culminating in the large toothed wheel on the left propels the bridge. At each exit track or step, the spring on the right of the motor unit propels the whole unit forward deactivating the solenoid and stopping the motor. If current continues to be applied to the solenoid, either because the lever remains depressed or through the control switch, then the stop is momentary. The solenoid is re activated, the motor starts and the bridge advances to the next step. Very ingenious but the lever mechanism is more than a little Heath Robinson

 

To cut a long story short the motor unit was stripped down.....once the ballast clogging the worm and gear wheels had been removed the motor worked fine as did the solenoid and its associated lever/switch mechanism. However the bridge still would not respond to the controller although I could hear the solenoid clicking

 

This lead me to believe that the circuit board unit had been damaged....the slip ring had been scarred by the ballast. I was able to get a spare from Gaugemaster which arrived yesterday. Once wired up to my horror the unit still would not respond to the controller. After a couple of hours stripping and assembling the motor unit (I am now quite expert) I finally got it to respond. I am not entirely sure what it was that I rectified.......I am beginning to think that one of the spring contacts to the slip ring may have been mis aligned. Whatever.....it works and I am a very relieved modeller!       

 

I can now continue ballasting........this time with the turntable securely covered!

 

Regards from Vancouver

 

John

 

[81C]

Afternoon John I'm glad to see you managed to repair the TT I was surprised to see all the electronics and mechanism

exposed on something so costly, it's nice to know help is always at hand on the forum.

 

Bob

[john dew]

Thanks Bob

 

I must admit to being very relieved and you are dead right, this forum is indeed an invaluable resource.

 

Other than the circuit board I doubt if Fleischmann have changed the design in 40 years. I bought an oldish second hand one in 1994, its still working in the storage yard, and the mechanics appear identical. Its a very robust piece of kit....I have seen it described as bullet proof......although its clearly not ballast proof! However I can hardly blame Fleischmann for the actions of a clumsy,careless geriatric!

 

Best wishes

 

John

[john dew]

 

"I can now continue ballasting........this time with the turntable securely covered!"

 

 

 

New jar of ballast with screw cap and sprinkle option

 

 

 

 

 

Tin helmet firmly in place

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by john dew
19/9/22 Photos

[richard.h]

 

"I can now continue ballasting........this time with the turntable securely covered!"

 

 

 

New jar of ballast with screw cap and sprinkle option

 

 

2 Ballast.jpg

 

 

 

Tin helmet firmly in place

 

 

3 Helmet.jpg

 

Good idea after you recent experience but I would keep a hoover handy as well as there are bound to be a few loose granules that go astray.

[81C]

No stir-fry for you to-night.    I wouldn't have any soft parts left if I done that to SWMBO's kitchen wear.

[john dew]

No stir-fry for you to-night.    I wouldn't have any soft parts left if I done that to SWMBO's kitchen wear.

I am safe.....I cook the curries in our house and I have a new teflon wok sub!

 

Cheers

 

John

[john dew]

In addition to replacing the turntable, I wanted to replace the 3 way point at the entrance to the shed and generally improve the running relianility up to the turntable

 

 

This is a screenshot of part of the RR&Co switchboard.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the sequence.......will the knowledgeable guys, I am lucky enough to have following this thread, please correct any naming errors (I cant believe "kick back" is appropriate in this context but "head shunt" didnt sound right either)

 

Locos pass through 727 Shed Entry and pause briefly ( 2 minutes?) at 771 Reception before moving on to the Ash Pit  (10 minutes) and then to the Coaling stage (5 minutes) and then on to the east kick back

 

The point is thrown and the loco stops at the water crane (5 minutes) then eases forward allowing any following loco to advance to the crane.

From the water crane locos move to the west kick back and await their turn on to the turntable

                                                                                                                                                  (currently off screen covered by a wok lid

 

 

I would welcome comments on the timing........this whole routine is automated and these delays are built into the schedules.......currently its the same delay for a 4-6-0 as a pannier but I could and should vary the delays to broadly suit the locos........ though I dont think I will go so far as to differentiate between tender water capacity.

 

I work to a 6x fast clock.....the times below are real time so a 5 minute delay  takes 30 seconds

 

You will be relieved to hear there is a more direct route to exit the shed. But I must admit it is a pretty tortuous way to get to the turntable and the sheds. If I were planning it again I might attempt something different........but for all its faults I have managed to squeeze a quart into a pint pot.................I would be delighted if someone could point be to something on the prototype that was even vaguely similar.

 

 

At the risk of being boring:

 

Each block is exactly that.....an electrically isolated block each with its own occupancy detector........an occupancy or accessory decoder controls 4 detectors. Each detector covers 2 blocks. So Decoder #77 covers most of the approach roads.

 

With this routine I have had up to 5 locos all shuffling round at the same time on their way to the turntable...........very satisfying until they got to the three way and then far too often promptly derailed

 

 

So the three way has gone replaced by a standard medium radius and the ash wagon siding (which never worked) now runs off the reception road and is operational

 

 

 

 

 

More to come

 

Progressing in Vancouver

 

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by john dew
19/9/22 Photos

[M.I.B]

John

 

The sequence is right.  

 

As for timings - each engine type would take a different duration at each stand, but then again that too would differ depending on what work it had been on - perhaps some only needed had half a tender of coal or water before "retiring" - all would have differed.  All depends how many rivets you want to count.

 

Has your nice ash pit shed gone now?  

 

As a fellow post WW2 modeller, I like to see an ash shed, and yours was way more true to type than mine will be (Wills kit - I think its a carriage shed originally).

 

Ash siding is a necessary evil as is a coal siding to support the coal drop.  I have combined the two.  My coal drop will be a totally separate "layout" consisting of one piece of inclined track, with its own engine and own  controller.  Probably DC with just one Pannier rostered for duty on it.  I can hide it and one or two wagons behind the main shed complex.   Perhaps a scene which could be automated?

[5BarVT]

John,

Were it the LMS shed I would suggest East Neck and West Neck, but yours is clearly a GWR shed and GW didn’t use ‘Neck’ as a line name. However, inside yards etc, the names for sidings quite often evolved from what the local shunters etc called them, so how about East Loco and West Loco?

Paul.

[5BarVT]

‘Bin poking around on the SRS website and confirmed to my satisfaction that ‘Spur’ is a name used by GW for short sidings and headshunts. Thus East Spur and West Spur would be suitable names (see Par and Didcot as examples). Old Oak Engine Shed called the lines to the shed ‘Loco’ so my earlier suggestion is equally valid.

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

‘Bin poking around on the SRS website and confirmed to my satisfaction that ‘Spur’ is a name used by GW for short sidings and headshunts. Thus East Spur and West Spur would be suitable names (see Par and Didcot as examples). Old Oak Engine Shed called the lines to the shed ‘Loco’ so my earlier suggestion is equally valid.

Paul.

Paul's beaten me to it but Spur sounds right to me.

[john dew]

 

 

The sequence is right.

 

Thanks Tinker

 

As for timings - each engine type would take a different duration at each stand, but then again that too would differ depending on what work it had been on - perhaps some only needed had half a tender of coal or water before "retiring" - all would have differed.  All depends how many rivets you want to count.

 

Not many!   Sadly computors like precision so I have to enter something.........when I have time I will play around with introducing some apparently random variation......not that anyone other than I is likely to notice

 

Has your nice ash pit shed gone now?  

 

Maybe! When I re-aligned the reception road I created clearance issues with the entry to the ash pit

 

 

 

 

As a fellow post WW2 modeller, I like to see an ash shed, and yours was way more true to type than mine will be (Wills kit - I think its a carriage shed originally).

 

Thank you. I admit to being rather fond of it and I do agree it makes a very specific time stamp. I was surprised that they lasted so long. There is a photo of Banbury Shed circa 1955 with them still standing. The other interesting thing was that the shed covered both the ash pit road and the ash wagon road.........which may be a possible solution to my entrance problem.

 

Ash siding is a necessary evil as is a coal siding to support the coal drop.  I have combined the two.  My coal drop will be a totally separate "layout" consisting of one piece of inclined track, with its own engine and own  controller.  Probably DC with just one Pannier rostered for duty on it.  I can hide it and one or two wagons behind the main shed complex.   Perhaps a scene which could be automated?

 

Great minds think alike......despite much effort I couldnt fit in a second siding for coal wagons so I am hoping I can also combine the two. I too am hoping to run some sort of  sequence involving a pannier pushing wagons up my rather fearsome coal ramp gradient.

 

You could certainly use a simple and inexpensive shuffle sequence........in fact I think some Lenz chips may have that capability

 

Best wishes

 

John

[john dew]

‘Bin poking around on the SRS website and confirmed to my satisfaction that ‘Spur’ is a name used by GW for short sidings and headshunts. Thus East Spur and West Spur would be suitable names (see Par and Didcot as examples). Old Oak Engine Shed called the lines to the shed ‘Loco’ so my earlier suggestion is equally valid.

Paul.

 

 

Paul's beaten me to it but Spur sounds right to me.

 

Thank you gentlemen.........East and West Spur it shall be

 

Decisive in Vancouver

[john dew]

As always thank you for all the likes etc and comments. Its so encouraging as I plod on with this, seemingly, never ending project.

 

Here is the revised screen shot of the approach tracks complete with spurs.............I also renamed / re-arranged the shed reception sequence.......the clearances were too tight for the lineside hut that I used for the shed crew and checking in...........I am a bit dubious about its new position though ......it seems an awful long way for the relieved crew to walk back and collect their bikes!

 

 

 

Here is a helicopter shot of the newly ballasted and weathered approach tracks...........weathered is perhaps an inaccurate description.....there is a very sharp contrast between the fresh "weathering" and the patina naturally acquired over the past ten years by the adjacent running lines........hopefully it will eventually blend in. 

 

 

 

 

 

The two roads of coal wagons on the left (by the window) are not on the screen shot. They are part hidden storage yards for the long mineral trains that crawl (full and empty) through the branch.

 

 

Part of this project is to make them fully hidden and cover the window sill with some industrial buildings. That will be a while yet, but as its a very long reach,  I plan to get the support structure built before replacing the detail in the foreground.

 

The next road is the coal ramp.....(block 770) followed by the re aligned ash pit waiting line and the ash pit with the ash wagon siding along side. As I mentioned to MIB, I spent forever trying to squeeze in an additional siding for Loco coal wagons........it looks feasible but in practice just doesnt work.

The East spur is not in the shot but the route from it to the West Spur can be seen running past the turntable..

I had hoped to retain one of the tortoi that powered the 3 way point but it was not to be. This shows the Cobalt SS surface mounted motor that I had to squeeze in.

 

 

I have always had problems with this area.........the storage yard boards on the left side of the room are 2.5" higher than the main line station boards (please dont ask) and the shed boards were added years later. This is where the three examples of my rough carpentry meet http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_eek.gif  Is it any wonder I had running problems?

I really should have taken them to the tip and started again........too late now so I have spent far too long trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. There are some unrealistic changes in level  and the clearances are sometimes a bit tight...........having said that I have tested the track with assorted locos.....big and small..... and it does seem to work.........no derailments and generally smoother running............any unevenness will continue to be attributed to mining subsidence

So on with the painting, ballasting , grassing and weathering

 

 

 

Including a start on weathering the turntable...........here is a reminder of how it looked when first installed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bridge has had some temporary camouflage while I ponder on a more permanent solution.......... Bridge green house removed and wasp stripes painted grey, planking painted but still to be weathered.

  
The concrete surrounds and wood planking have been weathered. The top right section of the perimeter has been bedded in with grass and ballast. Nothing on the left yet as the water crane and a small hut have to be installed and before I do that I need to work out how to treat the dummy exit tracks. Dont think these appeared on the prototype but they are an integral part of the model operating mechanism. They look odd without some form of buffer stop  stop block........hope you have recovered from your fall Mike and approve of my attempts to use the correct terms     

 

Talking of stop blocks........

 

 

Another job done!

 

Regards from Vancouver where its a pleasant 76o today..........however next week is likely to be the mid eighties ....less pleasant.

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by john dew
19/9/22 Photos