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john dew

GRANBY JUNCTION: 00 GWR/LMS 1947-1948

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Thanks Tony.......again.

 

I think its time I started reporting on current work........so for now the highlight reels are are over.......this muck and nettles....in the trenches stuff

 

I am working on Newyd Shed (shades of Croes Newyd) the MPD ( is MPD correct for 1948?) that serves Granby Junction. There are other projects on the to do list........but this is the the last major project and will certainly be the last time I lay any track.

It will occupy the opposite corner from the Goods Warehouse described in my last post. It is important both visually and operationally.

Visually because it is the first thing anyone sees when coming into the railway room.

Operationally because, although I do like to " watch the trains go by " I want to inject as much realism as I can. In consequence, using RR&Co I will will featureing a series of loco exchanges particularly for North Bound trains. The relieved locos will require coal, water and turning before their next turn.

The site:

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Its a triangle.....6' on the wall side and 5' at the base.......In the foreground you can see the double track mineral line which connects the upper and lower ovals.

On the far side the main line curves away from Granby Junction before crossing the viaduct on its way south to Shrewsbury

Squeezing everything in was something of a nightmare particularly as operating Granby this last year convinced me that I needed to insert a head shunt/carriage siding at the south end of the station.

Using RR&Co here is a schematic plan

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Locos enter top right and proceed down the reception road, over the ash pit, past the coaling station to Headshunt 1 then via the relief loop, where there will be a water crane, to Headshunt 2 where they can either exit the yard back to the main line or enter the shed via the turntable.

The shuttling back and forth to access the TT is unusual......but there are, I believe precedents.

 

Similarly access to the shed itself being confined to the TT is not very prototypical.......but there are precedents................just not sure if both appear on the same site!

Last of all....entry and exit via one road represent a major bottleneck.



Pressing on regardless or as we said in the 8th of foot "difficulties be damned" I laid lots of track and did a load of ballasting :

 



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This shows from the left : the coal ramp, reception road and coaling stage, ash wagon siding and relief loop.

The TT is a Heljan DCC of which I will write more later

While all this was going on I kept fretting about the entry/exit bottleneck..................This is a tale of the penny taking a very long time to drop!

Finally  doh.gif



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Cut short the long siding and insert a point into the relief line providing a separate exit.............not the easiest task....the track was long established and tucked away behind the overall roof.

 

 

 



Nothing venture nothing gain:

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Close of play(?) today:


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A lot of fret but well worth it

 


I could do with some help on the signalling (cosmetic I am afraid)........I realise the layout is very very un prototypical but, having freely acknowledged that, I would like everything else to be as realistic as possible.

 

I will do a proper schematic later but in broad terms I am proposing to control the entry and exit from the yard with semaphore signals operated from Granby South Box......the site is top right by the carriage sidings.

 

Within the yard......the 3 way point, Headshunt 1 point and  entry and exit from the TT......  I was contemplating control would be by hand signal and point levers .......comments would be  much appreciated

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ASH PIT and SHED


Here is the ash pit


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12" long made up of 3 Peco inspection pits

The "concrete" surround is card.....scored and painted


Another shot with the coal  ramp and embankment behind (please dont ask about the gradient   icon_redface.gif......fortunately it will be hidden)


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For whatever reason GWR invested less in mechanical handling equipment than any of the other Big 4. I stumbled across the report of a pre war conference on depot design and the differences between the companies attitudes was fascinating.

In addition to the Ash Handling plants the LMS had a series of sluices and hoppers that automated the disposal of ash once it had been dropped from the loco.

The GWR relied largely on manpower right up to nationalisation. The ash was dropped into a pit like the one above, It was then hosed down and shovelled into wheelbarrows and loaded into the Ash Wagons.


During WWII sheds were built over the pits to prevent the glow from the hot ashes being used as aiming marks by the Luftwaffe.
.
I had never heard of them at all until I came across a delightful thread called 86F. Ash, Coal & Cotton Waste describing the construction of an 0 gauge ex GWR Shed including an Ash Shed.  Steve Fay , who wrote the thread was very helpful....answered my queries and posted a couple of pictures as well........if you read this.....I owe you a pint Steve!

Enclosing the pits in this way must have made the working atmosphere even more unpleasant. Many were dismantled immediately after the war.......although the one at Didcot was used for storage into the seventies.......got a lot of help from cyber friends in the UK with this.

I decided this would be a good time stamp for Granby particularly if the model was partially dismantled......another of Iain Rice's signature elements perhaps?

I built the framework with 3mm x 3mm and 4mm x 1 mm plastic strip

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I probably got a bit carried away with all the carpentry but I wanted to reveal the woodwork



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I partially clad it with Wills corrugated glazing



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The legend being that the roofing was ripped off to improve ventilation and the side modified to improve access



You may be wondering whats been attacking the centre panel?













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Despite my earlier comments mechanisation has finally got to Granby. There are precedents...... the GWR did have rail mounted mechanical shovels similar to this (although not with Caterpillar tracks!) at some of their sheds. Next post I will show my attempts to make it more prototypical





Back to the shed.........spray on metallic undercoat

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Then lots of weathering.......this will be viewed from about 3' away so the make up is a little theatrical





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All that remains is to distribuite my newly acquired ash and do a bit of detailing
 

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For whatever reason GWR invested less in mechanical handling equipment than any of the other Big 4. 

Apparently their favoured grades of soft coal didn't react well to rough mechanical handling.

 

Impressive work there. I am particulaly looking forward to seeing the finished coaling tower and surroundings.

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I could do with some help on the signalling (cosmetic I am afraid)........I realise the layout is very very un prototypical but, having freely acknowledged that, I would like everything else to be as realistic as possible.

 

I will do a proper schematic later but in broad terms I am proposing to control the entry and exit from the yard with semaphore signals operated from Granby South Box......the site is top right by the carriage sidings.

 

Within the yard......the 3 way point, Headshunt 1 point and  entry and exit from the TT......  I was contemplating control would be by hand signal and point levers .......comments would be  much appreciated

Signalling is fairly simple to sort by the look of things - it will only be difficult if there are any 'oddities' in the track layout  :O   One initial item is that the signal with the ring on the arm is in  the wrong place as points in advance of it would be handpoints in real life (e.g. to the coal stage)  - that signal probably needs to be where the ground disc further along is sited but it needs a diagram to check overall.

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I like all that woodwork in the shed as it is something I like to do myself as well, the finished building looks excellent and I look forward to seeing the rest appear.

It looks as if you are making quite rapid progress on the layout so we shouldn't have too long to wait.

 

Jim

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Signalling is fairly simple to sort by the look of things - it will only be difficult if there are any 'oddities' in the track layout  :O   One initial item is that the signal with the ring on the arm is in  the wrong place as points in advance of it would be handpoints in real life (e.g. to the coal stage)  - that signal probably needs to be where the ground disc further along is sited but it needs a diagram to check overall.

 

:blush_mini: That will teach me to be more careful........it was plonked there during construction.....I saw it on the photo and thought.....no one will notice!

 

As always your help and advice much appreciated I will add some proposed signals to the plan later today

 

Kind Regards

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I do appreciate your help with this Mike

 

 

Took me a lot longer than I intended......I have all these pretty symbols of GWR signals but I failed miserably in my (many) attempts to insert them on the track plan

 

 

 

post-465-0-18201100-1359168058.jpg

 

 

 

Code

 

I have marked the direction of travel.......Red =    Left to Right     Down     (Port to some)

 

                                                            Green=     Right to Left     Up          (Starboard)

 

 

 

S1    Bracket Signal       RH Doll         (Taller)   Advanced Starter for Up Mineral  Line (ie end of Station Limits)    (possibly with Distant?)

 

                                     LH Doll          Shorter Board    Entrance to Depot       

 

                                      Alternatively have a single post for the Up Mineral and a ground signal controlling entry to the Depot

 

                                     I omitted that the Down Mineral line should have a home signal protecting the junction

 

 

S2   Ringed Signal        Exit from Depot   (Locos serviced not turned)

 

 

S3  Ringed Signal         Exit from Depot

 

                                     In theory this will never be used as an entry........does the other direction need to be protected by a ground signal?    

 

 

S4  Bracket Signal?     Starter for relief with calling on arm

                                    Backing Signal for Carriage Sidings

 

 

The main lines still need signalling but I thought this was sufficient for now!

 

Kind Regards from Vancouver

 

 

 

 

 

 

         

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Lovely work on that shed John! It really looks the part.

 

I really look forward to seeing the signalling too.

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John, I've just caught up with this and you have been busy since I saw it last.

 

I do admire your unquenchable enthusiasm-and the results.

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Mikkel and John ......Thank you so much for your comments.........it was indeed a happy coincidence that two of the guys from whom I have learned so much should post together!

 

 

 

STEAM SHOVEL

Some quick pics showing how I rail mounted the Oxford/Corgy Ruston Bucyrus Drag Shovel.

I had originally assumed this was powered by Diesel but having googled fairly extensively it would seem they were steam driven .......I am having a hard time visualising this and it would be great if someone could give me a more definitive answer



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The GWR did have rail mounted steam shovels in their busier depots but not, as far as I can tell, made by Bucyrus. Their shovels were used by all the Big Four but remained caterpillar mounted.

I had no option....the shovel was something of an afterthought and there was no way I could put the shovel, as is, in the confined space between the Pit road and the Wagon Siding


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Fortunately there is a single screw securing the swivel mounting to the body.



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So it was quite easy to remove.....cut the caterpillars off and then replace.


The swivel mounting fits snugly over a spare coach bogie 


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Make a platform with some Will Checker Plate


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To disguise the Bogey I found some bits of a Cambrian Sleeper Wagon that I mistakenly bought 20 years ago (there is a moral somewhere)


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Cut and glue......fix the buffers ....add some steps


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Paint it out......including the roof........do some weathering


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Back to work


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I am quite pleased with the conversion.......not for the purists but for coarse gauge it will do......................except.......... I rather doubt it would have been in GWR Brown......the photos I have seen are heavily stained light grey.

At the very least I think I have to do a lot more weathering.......but I am rather inclined to paint the whole body out in GWR Wagon grey.

Any Comments and particularly any advice on how they were actually painted would be much appreciated
 

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John, again another delightful tale. It's amazing what one can do with all the spare bits one has about the place that might come in useful some day. As here..

 

This is definitely the case that although it might not be exactly right it looks right .

 

Regarding its colour as the crane would, I think, be on the Loco Department's books most likely it would be painted black as were engine coal wagons.

 

I do wonder a little about the bucket and think maybe a crab like grab was used. The bucket might be more prone to damage the ash pit walls. But I don't know.

 

 I'm sure, however,  someone will come up with a definitive answer.

Edited by john flann
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Regarding its colour as the crane would, I think, be on the Loco Department's books most likely it would be painted black as were engine coal wagons.

 

I do wonder a little about the bucket and think maybe a crab like grab was used. The bucket might be more prone to damage the ash pit walls. But I don't know.

 

 I'm sure, however,  someone will come up with a definitive answer.

Thanks John............glad you like it

 

I think you are right the crane would have been Black (well dirty black). I am not quite so certain about the loco coal wagons.......I researched and googled this a couple of times and the answer seems to be "the experts continue to disagree" Thats a direct quote from http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieswagon1920.html ! I have to build a few more shortly so it would be nice to know what is most likely correct in 1948. Talking of loco coal wagons I suspect I am incorrect to be using 10T wagons and that for a depot of this size 20T would be more appropriate.......but I am not aware of any kits and I am not convinced the Dapol 20T RTR is right.

 

You are right about the risk of damage to the ash pit wall from the shovel........at Newyd Shed they have to hand shovel it out......well thats my story!

 

Regards

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John, I had a look at that site, however this is not a wagon but a crane and likely held in Loco Departmental stock in the plant and machinery category..

 

And by 1948, your period, black colour I think more appropriate. That is also probably true of the coal wagons.

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John, I had a look at that site, however this is not a wagon but a crane and likely held in Loco Departmental stock in the plant and machinery category..

 

And by 1948, your period, black colour I think more appropriate. That is also probably true of the coal wagons.

I agree about the crane.......black it will be.

 

I dont particularly want to repaint and re-transfer my existing loco coal wagons if I can avoid it.......maybe I will just paint the new ones black.......a classic Canadian compromise?

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Compromise, as you say John is the answer, I have no problems with it nor would I with a mixture of grey-it comes in all shades- and black.

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I have got somewhat behind with the updates......last week end I spent a happy morning detailing

I confess I like detailing......it marks the end of the section of a project......but in truth.........I like detailing

The charcoal ash got distribuited (literally...........one unintended sneeze had dramatic results).........I think it has worked pretty well.....maybe a little light in colour.....certainly in density......the usual practice of dampening with a squirt from the scent spray required a little modification



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Pretty comfortable these are the correct wagons for the ash (and the right colour!) In a previous layout I used wooden bodied wagons.......not the best choice for hot ash!

I have a feeling they should be labelled "Ash only"


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Closeup......manual shovelling from pit to wheelbarrow


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Water Hydrant.....not that frequently modelled although they appear frequently in shed shots............and water hose

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Sorry about the angle! Levers for the triple point with guard.......Booking in clerk outside his office

This is obviously for locos booking into the depot.........there will be another set of booking in offices outside the sheds for engine crew.........have I got the names correct or was there some form of differentiation?


46_312122_390000003.jpg


Flagman  and rather dusty Mogul




Finally a couple of Black and White Shots:

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Couldnt resist the Pannier.........apart from the fact I like Panniers........ 5773 is sporting, for the first time, etched number plates! Well there is a limit to how many 5775's you can have on a layout......apart from the confusion it causes RR&Co



46_312122_390000000.jpg




Next post the Coaling Station


 

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Hi John 

 

Some great shots again there, especially that shed again.

 

I usually prefer the B&W pictures as they look like real old photographs but in this case the colour shows how much work went into that shed with the weathering detail and it looks great.

 

Keep the posts coming.

 

Jim

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Hi John 

 

Some great shots again there, especially that shed again.

 

I usually prefer the B&W pictures as they look like real old photographs but in this case the colour shows how much work went into that shed with the weathering detail and it looks great.

 

Keep the posts coming.

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim........ much appreciated

 

Like you I prefer B&W shots if only to see how I am measuring up against my various sources which are, of course, all B&W. In this case though I think you are right somehow a couple of the colour shots have captured the atmosphere better

 

Kind Regards

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Hi John Cambrian Kits do a nice 40 tonner it would be a bit more in keeping with the amount of loco's you would have on a six road shed.

I like your layout I've been keeping an eye on the thread for a while and enjoying it, so more pictures please.

81C

 

Good point and thank you for suggesting it. I did think about it but the GWR link I referred to, implied that not too many 40 tonners were actually built.......I agree for the size of the depot 10T is probably too small......but  I already had 4 Wagons and before I had worked this out I ordered a few more Cambrian kits which are now about to wend their way from Cornwall to the Pacific North West

 

Glad you like the thread.

 

Regards

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COALING STATION and WATER TANK

This can be seen lurking in the background of some of the previous posts.......lurking because it was built some 7 years ago for Granby II and incurred a certain amount of collateral damage while the layout was demolished, we moved house and it was "stored" in the railway room until now.

I spent a few days last week on TLC repairs and improvements


Its a scratch built/ kit bashed attempt at modelling what I believe was a GWR standard design for medium sized depots.

I based it on these two (rather poor) photographs that I took on my one visit to Didcot 16 years ago


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The main components were obtained from two of these Ratio Water Towers plus Wills Brick Sheets etc


46_042343_590000003.jpg

This is a completed model that is North of the main station and services the Panniers and Prairies that provide the frequent local trains to and from Chester and Birkenhead




Back to Newyd Shed itself, South of the station........here is the renovated building in position

 


46_042340_470000004.jpg

Some of the close ups that follow to show the detail are not for the fainthearted.......I have always claimed to be broad brush, coarse gauge and I think that caveat/warning is worth repeating.....particularly as I have been browsing the threads of some of the guys who are following this one....................even the poor focus cant hide many of the bodges

In my defence the viewing distance is over 3'........twice CJ Freezers 18" rulesmile.gif


Whatever......here is the right of the building


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Protective railing using Ratio stantions........really handy item

Notice telling staff to ensure Wagon Brakes are on......there is another out of shot at right angles "No Engines beyond this Point"

Fire Iron Rack and Grounded Van Body.....(for Cotton Waste?)



Next .......the actual Coaling Point


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46_042340_470000002.jpg


The scratch built tub isnt really correct ........they actually had a very ingenious system that acted both as a stop and a tipping fulchrum............I have a slight clearance issue so I invoked the 18" rule (incidentally there is a guy pushing the tub.....but you will have to believe me!)



The lights are a hotch potch of bits and pieces


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Exceptionally cruel closeup of the inspection hatch......Ratio Stantions again make life a lot easier




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More flattering long shot showing start of the access steps and also  how the building fits over the coal ramp



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The platform is from a Ratio Signal Box as is the staircase


The original model had a very unlikely brick staircase I decided to scrap it and build a proper wooden staircase like the prototype




46_042342_270000003.jpg

For those of you who havent built one of these it is a right pain with each tread having to be cut out and fixed at precise right angles to the riser............doing two of them is even worse!

Fortunately the total rise of two sets  plus a little landing just covered the rise from floor to door and with the addition of a hurriedly built storage hut makes the area look reasonably credible





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To finish.......how it hopefully looked in 1948




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You do have fun John, and get very credible results. That's a very difficult subject matter to capture satisfactorily.

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Hi John

 

I think the overall look you have got there is good, even the close ups are nowhere near as bad as you seem to think they are. Remember if you don't point things out people never notice them. That shot of the lamp is particularly good.

 

Looking forward to seeing even more now.

 

Jim

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Kit-bashing and a 43xx again. What is there not to like? :-)

 

Thanks for the tip about the stanchions, John, they could save a lot of fiddly work.

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