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GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!


john dew
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The GWR did not have many which were built in 1905 and would have all gone but a few in the 40's the GWR did hire some the information on these is a bit scarce, the Hornby

one is pure fiction as are most if not all of the RTR's, for a GWR wagon best try and find 5 plank RCH wagon with a near correct underframe to hide under a sheet. 

 

Check this site out. http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4rtrwagons.html

The sheets hide a multitude of sins particularly as they are only seen as a moving target from 3'.

 

The other thing ,Tinker, is they should not be exclusively GWR. Big four wagon ownership was very roughly LMS. 40. LNER. 30. GWR 20. SR10

 

Cheers

 

John

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Those of you patient enough to watch the Freight video will be familiar with this view of the exposed storage sidings 

post-465-0-41383100-1520452316_thumb.jpg

The only difference is that the front siding is now occupied with its regular tenants. Two  "out and back" suburban trains. The first train, a GWR B Set starts from here "Chester" and now does a complete circle of the layout, stopping at Granby before terminating in the very rear storage siding "Ruabon" where the loco uncouples and another prairie couples at the rear ready for the return journey.

Behind the B Set is a 3 car LMS set at "Birkenhead" with Jinty 7524

 

post-465-0-81620800-1520452335_thumb.jpg


Once the B Set is clear the LMS set can leave Birkenhead for Granby.........at the same time an identical train leaves Granby for Birkenhead. icon_eek.gif

 

post-465-0-55411300-1520452366_thumb.jpg


The two trains meet  pass one another at the top of Granby Bank
 

 

post-465-0-50713000-1520452417_thumb.jpg

 

The RR&Co schedules needed a lot of fine tuning to strike a balance between having the Up train standing too long at the signal or running the risk of the entry points at either destination being thrown prematurely icon_rolleyes.gif 

As the down train from Granby, Lanky Tank 10695, enters the storage siding it passes a Webb Coal Tank 7841 ready for the return journey

 

 

post-465-0-61130700-1520452433_thumb.jpg

 

Meanwhile at Granby
 

 

post-465-0-58590100-1520452458_thumb.jpg

 

As the Up train enters Bay Platform 2 it passes the loco sidings where another Lanky tank 10698 is waiting, ready to release the incoming Loco once the passengers have departed.

Both loco exchanges involve automatic uncoupling and coupling.......they take place at roughly the same time on either side of the layout icon_rolleyes.gif This requires a combination of supreme confidence in the RR&Co profiling of the 4 locos involved, coupled (sorry!) with sharp eyes and swift reaction in the event the said confidence is misplaced!

The sequence is by no means perfect but with a bit more snagging I think it will soon be ready to video. First though, I have to bite the bullet and weather those totally implausible silver carriage rooves/roofs along with the shiny black LMS locos. That's not how I remember those tank engines at Liverpool Exchange and Southport Chapel Street so many years ago! 
 

 

post-465-0-31850200-1520452484_thumb.jpg

 
Regards from Vancouver

John

 

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I noticed more LMS rolling stock on your layout  I won on fleebay 5 Stanier corrridor coaches at the week-end to use as through coach sevices that's the trouble when you look through

GWR pictorials and think that would look good on my layout.

 

John can I ask where did you obtained that early concrete phone box, the red Hornby jobbie I have is in date period but doesn't look right in a country town.

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I noticed more LMS rolling stock on your layout  I won on fleebay 5 Stanier corrridor coaches at the week-end to use as through coach sevices that's the trouble when you look through

GWR pictorials and think that would look good on my layout.

 

John can I ask where did you obtained that early concrete phone box, the red Hornby jobbie I have is in date period but doesn't look right in a country town.

Hi Bob

 

Granby is based very loosely on Wrexham.......the line from Chester to Birkenhead was actually a Joint GWR LMS line and it was either here or on a Joint line out of Shrewsbury that they alternated locos and coaches on a weekly basis.....one week GWR loco and LMS stock....next week the reverse. Over the years I have, almost by accident, acquired a fair sized collection of LMS stock....although I don't mix them up.

 

The phone box is over 20 years old......it was a kit from either Langley, Dart or Springside.......I would guess, but only guess, the former.

 

Not sure if you were too polite to mention it ....but last night I realised to my embarrassment the box is upside down.....hence the badly fitting roof! It must have come apart when I stripped that section last fall....it's on the bench now!

 

Cheers

 

John

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Hello John,

 

I didn't realise that Granby was based (however loosely) in the Wrexham area. As I'm sure you know, Wrexham in reality had three stations, Exchange, General and Central. The history of the railways around Wrexham, the Dee Estuary and the Wirral is byzantine in its complexity and I won't attempt to summarise it here (frankly, it makes my head spin!). For anyone interested the relevant 'Disused Station" entries are a start:-

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/wrexham_central/index0.shtml

 

As unlikely as it seems, Wrexham was as much a stronghold of the Great Central (later LNER) stronghold as it was of the GWR. The GCR owned Exchange station outright and its forebear, the Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway built Wrexham Central and the line to Ellesmere line in partnership with the Cambrian. The GWR backed out of the joint project to build the line! Wrexham even had its own LNER shed called Rhosddu, some details of which can be found here:-

 

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/wrexham-rhosddu-1946-1959.html

 

John, you could if so minded justify running some ex-LNER stock on Granby. A couple of J11s were based there around 1947 (modelled by Bachmann), as was a J94 (DJ Models, Hornby) and three of the enigmatic Y3 0-4-0T 'Sentinels'. This is available in OO gauge but only from ModelRail magazine apparently:-

 

http://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/p/58068/MR-014-MR-Dapol-Y1-Sentinel-Steam-Locomotive-number-68138

 

There were sporadic appearances by J72s at the shed at that time as well, a newly tooled model of which is to be released by Bachmann this year.

 

Personally I think a "Director" 4-4-0 heading a rake of Hornby Gresley teak stock would look very handsome indeed exercising the GCR's running rights from Chester Northgate into Granby!

 

You mention memories of Southport Chapel Street and the L&YR 2-4-2 tanks. There are a few photographs on David Hey's wonderful website:-

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page27.htm

 

By the time I began travelling by train to Southport in 1979 they had long gone, but remnants of the past were everywhere. The former steam shed was open as a tourist attraction called "Steamport". It hosted an eclectic collections of exhibits, including the sole surviving Mersey Railway steam loco, an unlikely looking outside framed condensing 0-6-4 tank engine called "Cecil Raikes". It also housed the only surviving original carriage from "The Docker's Umbrella" (The Liverpool Overhead Railway) and one of the last remaining Liverpool trams. Steamport has long since been closed and demolished but its exhibits have moved on to new homes.

 

You might want to check these links out John as I am sure they will bring back memories of your youth:-

 

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol/collections/transport/tramcar-245.aspx

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Overhead_Railway_electric_units#/media/File:Liverpool_Overhead_Railway_carriage,_Museum_of_Liverpool-2.jpg

 

And one from before you time or mine John, Cecil Raikes:-

 

http://www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/pits/Ilkeston/Cecil-Raikes.html

 

Passenger service from Liverpool to Southport in the 80s were still in the hands of the LMS designed Class 503 EMUs, some of which dated back to 1938! Liverpool was in such state of dereliction at that time that people barely noticed that they were travelling around in what was pre-war equipment. My recollection of them is of their blinding acceleration and highly sprung seating. Towards the end of the careers in 1985 some of the drivers decided to "have a go" just for old time's sake. The resulting exhilarating runs caused the (few) passengers on board to be almost thrown out of their seats as they passed over rail joints at breakneck speed, aided considerable by the aforementioned seats! At the end one of them was repainted into LMS livery for use on special occasions. It is now preserved at a museum in Coventry, but here it was back in 1985:-

 

http://www.martynhilbert.railpic.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=474&lang=luxembourgish

 

I hope these rambling observations and reminiscences are of interest and bring back a few memories.

 

Andy.

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Andy/John. a little OT but the GCR had a terminal at Seacombe, just above the Ferry. It was still functioning in the middle 1950's.

 

I too, as John knows, have an awareness of the byzantine railway ownership's in and around the Wirral and Liverpool from my (happy) years in the LMR Estate Office through 1952-59. I found it all quite fascinating.

 

And equally fascinating today is John's cleverness with his Granby Empire.

Edited by john flann
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Hi Andy and John

 

Sorry that I didn't reply yesterday......I was away all day.....but in any event I would have needed a day to even skim the fascinating links that Andy sent.

 

They certainly brought the memories flooding back so I thought I would split my response into South and North of the Mersey.

 

Byzantine is a very accurate description of the machinations of the GWR, LNWR and GC as they fought, almost literally, to gain control of numerous small companies in their bids to gain or deny access to both the Mersey and the North Wales route to Ireland. At times Chester, a joint LNWR and GWR station, appeared to resemble Berlin during the Cold War. The skulduggery, by any of the big three, involved in trying to bring a smaller company to its knees was worthy of a Len Deigton novel. :triniti: 

 

It was the web of railways run by so many companies in and around Chester and Wrexham that first caused me to use it as the base for my rather elastic interpretation of North Wales geography. In 1923  GWR, Cambrian, LNWR, Cheshire Lines (Midland and GC) and GC were all operating. Post Grouping only the Cambrian disappeared (absorbed into the GWR). LNWR became LMS and GC LNER.....Cheshire Lines continued now run by LMS and LNER.  I can actually run rolling stock from any of the Big Four because there was a service from Birkenhead/Manchester to Bournemouth that alternated Southern and GWR stock on a weekly basis.  

 

In the early stages of Granby I did plan to develop a LNER passenger service. Now, as you know from my storage yards, I have far too much stock.......so you mustn't tempt me Andy  :no: I do run a token LNER loco......it had a walk on part in the freight video hauling oil empties to Ellesmere Port.

 

From a personal aspect, we lived in Heswall , on the Wirral, before we emigrated. The ex LNER line running to Secombe Ferry Terminal, that John referred to, was still running and there was a station about a mile from us. The LNWR/GWR joint line that ran from Hooton to West Kirby was a few hundred yards away from our house. But it was long gone converted to a nature walk.. the Wirral Way. For almost its entire length it ran alongside the Dee. It must have been a very attractive journey with views of the river (at High water!) and the Welsh mountains beyond.

 

Thanks again Andy for those links.....lots of browsing to do......I don't think I had seen the David Heys site before.

 

Regards to all

 

John 

 

 

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My "away" day yesterday was one of these routine but tiresome surgical procedures that require doing very little the following day so with time on my hands .....here is episode 2 of my Merseyside memories.

 

A couple of Andy's links referred to some of Liverpool's suburban rail structure. When I was a small boy we used to live in Crosby, midway between Liverpool and Southport. Generally we travelled by Ribble bus even on shopping trips to Liverpool. Occasionally, as a treat, instead of going the whole way by bus to the terminus by Lime St Station (where John Flann would later work), we would get off at Seaforth Sands and continue the journey on the Overhead Railway. This ran from Seaforth along the entire 8 mile length of Liverpool Docks. Apart from a small section at the southern end it was all on raised track with the Dock road running underneath (Andy's Dockers Umbrella). You can imagine what a fascinating trip it was for a small boy, particularly during wartime. The docks where crammed with weather beaten cargo ships of all shapes and sizes. A couple of docks had been taken over by the Navy and here I would catch glimpses of equally weather beaten, grey painted destroyers and corvettes rafted together...between convoys (vide The Cruel Sea). We would get off at the Pierhead by the Liver Buildings. Sometimes there would be troopship departing from the Landing Stage, where the transatlantic liners used to depart,

 

After the war we moved to Formby and now our main form of transport (we never had a car) became the electric train service which ran between Liverpool and Southport. In term time I used that service Monday to Saturday to and from School in Crosby. These were the EMUs that Andy referred to.... although we never called them EMUs.....just the "electric train". I seem to recall some of the stock having manufacturers plates with 1904 on .......and marvelling that I could be travelling in carriages that were over 40 years old! 

 

It was a very efficient and not uncomfortable service.Three car sets every 20 minutes. Strengthened to 5 and every 8 minutes at peak. The seating was all open and one or two cars had a small non smoking section separated only by the gangway.....how times change 

 

I must have travelled on them in LMS maroon but I only remember them in green. It makes me feel quite ancient when I see a train that I travelled on treated as a museum piece.

 

Enough nostalgia for one day.....

 

 

John

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John, I hope your recovery is complete, and your nostalgic re-collections brought many a pleasant memory back to me. Thank you.

 

I won't add mine here but should members be interested they might  care to look out an article  "Reminiscences of a BR Surveyor" in Back Track, Vol 19, No8 August 2005.

 

It tells of my time at Euston and in the Liverpool District Estate Office that I found quite fascinating as well as professionally rewarding, and the work of the Estate Department in general.

 

My regards,

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My wife lived, and her father still does, in one of the houses built on the old railway line that’s now the Wirral Way. The top of his garden is old track bed I believe. It’s a nice walk and a great view over the Dee. We’ve walked parts of the old line - many ghosts of railway noticeably on over bridges which still show soot darkening.

 

On a related point, I recall an rmweb thread on someone building part of a Wirral railway in 7mm

 

David

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I've often thought that The Wirral Way (the trackbed of the former Hooton - West Kirby line) would make an excellent heritage railway. It's about the right length (12 miles), passes through pleasant scenery and is close to attractive towns like Parkgate. It would also have two points of interchange with the national rail network. Additionally, while Manchester has a steam railway of its own, neither Liverpool nor Chester do. In short, there is an un-tapped market.

 

As it happens one station at least has survived in much the same condition as it was when the line closed. Hadlow Road is three stops down from John's former local station of Heswall. It's popular with walkers and cyclists has a tea room. It has an active local support group and even has its own Facebook page!

 

I found this little film made by a local community TV channel discussing fundraising and maintenance for the station. The accents should bring back memories for John!

 

 

Andy.

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John, I hope your recovery is complete, and your nostalgic re-collections brought many a pleasant memory back to me. Thank you.

 

I won't add mine here but should members be interested they might  care to look out an article  "Reminiscences of a BR Surveyor" in Back Track, Vol 19, No8 August 2005.

 

It tells of my time at Euston and in the Liverpool District Estate Office that I found quite fascinating as well as professionally rewarding, and the work of the Estate Department in general.

 

My regards,

 

Thanks John

 

All fine now....... thanks for asking......just needed time to get the medication out of my system.

 

I always enjoy your writing......how can I access Back Track........I googled but got a link to some Linux product?

 

Best wishes

 

John

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My wife lived, and her father still does, in one of the houses built on the old railway line that’s now the Wirral Way. The top of his garden is old track bed I believe. It’s a nice walk and a great view over the Dee. We’ve walked parts of the old line - many ghosts of railway noticeably on over bridges which still show soot darkening.

 

On a related point, I recall an rmweb thread on someone building part of a Wirral railway in 7mm

 

David

 

Hi David

 

Would that be Heswall/Gayton by any chance? If yes it is a very small world .....we lived about half a mile from the station site!

 

John

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I've often thought that The Wirral Way (the trackbed of the former Hooton - West Kirby line) would make an excellent heritage railway. It's about the right length (12 miles), passes through pleasant scenery and is close to attractive towns like Parkgate. It would also have two points of interchange with the national rail network. Additionally, while Manchester has a steam railway of its own, neither Liverpool nor Chester do. In short, there is an un-tapped market.

 

As it happens one station at least has survived in much the same condition as it was when the line closed. Hadlow Road is three stops down from John's former local station of Heswall. It's popular with walkers and cyclists has a tea room. It has an active local support group and even has its own Facebook page!

 

I found this little film made by a local community TV channel discussing fundraising and maintenance for the station. The accents should bring back memories for John!

 

 

Andy.

 

 

Indeed.......always good to hear a genuine scouse accent.

 

Do you now I had never heard of Hadlow Road and had no idea that the station had been preserved.........mind you I didn't get really interested in railways and the GWR in particular until we had been in Canada for about ten years.......nothing like going for the difficult route !

 

John

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John, Back Track is published by www.pendragonpublishing.co.uk/ but it appears they have no 2005 back numbers.

 

They do however refer inquiries for such to admin@www.vintagecarriagetrust.org.

 

Should they not have what you seek there are in the UK several railway related book shops that carry large numbers of back numbers. I've used them with success through the years bu unfortunately cannot now be specific.

 

I hope you can locate a copy. Back Track is renowned for the quality of its "amateur-scholarly" articles and its illustrations. There you will not be disappointed of those in Liverpool itself and one in particular of a street scene featuring the Overhead Railway that you recalled so vividly.

 

Regards,

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On the subject of things Liverpudlian, the two Johns may not be aware that Ken Dodd passed away this weekend at the age of 90.

 

I hope gents you will not mind if I post some of his best gags, gleaned from the BBC website. The passing of 'Doddy' is another part of 'old Liverpool' gone forever.

 

Andy.

 

"My dad knew I was going to be a comedian. When I was a baby, he said, 'Is this a joke?'"

 

"I love my girlfriend, my girlfriend loves me. She loves my hair, she loves my eyes, she loves my teeth. She loves my teeth because I'm the only person that can peel an orange through a tennis racket."

"I haven't spoken to my mother-in-law for 18 months. I don't like to interrupt."

"My act is very educational. I heard a man leaving the other night, saying: 'Well, that taught me a lesson.'"

"The man who invented cats' eyes got the idea when he saw the eyes of a cat in his headlights. If the cat had been going the other way, he would have invented the pencil sharpener."

On his famous tax fraud trial: "I told the Inland Revenue I didn't owe them a penny because I live by the sea."

 

On his live shows that famously started at about 8 o'clock in the evening and finished in the early hours of the following day: "You think you can get away, but you can't. I'll follow you home and I'll shout jokes through your letterbox."

"Do I believe in safe sex? Of course I do. I have a handrail around the bed."

"I do all the exercises every morning in front of the television - up, down, up, down, up, down. Then the other eyelid."

"I did 25 minutes running on the spot this morning - I had my braces caught in the banister."

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Thanks Andy

 

I read about it in the Telegraph but it's good to be reminded of his gags.

 

As it happens he was the star turn at a Littlewoods Managers dinner I went to.........and he did indeed continue well over his allotted time. I remember his shirt cuffs were covered in scribbled words......cues for the endless stream of patter.....not that he seemed to need any prompts!

 

Cheers

 

John

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Thanks, I didn't know that. Sad, he was one of my favourites and a Scouse through and through. He  just could not stop. One of a kind.

 

He typified the Merseyside that was a revelation to me as I was born, brought up and schooled up in Surrey, a far cry from the realities of life as lived and experienced there.

 

The first time i saw it was in January 1950 and only a passing glimpse of Lime Street  from a green Liverpool Corporation bus as it dived into the Mersey  Tunnel that took me and my fellow squaddies to a grimy ship in grimy Seacombe en route to Hong Kong.

 

Little did I know then I would return, meet my future wife and lay the foundation for a happy family life and a rewarding professional career.

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After the  Memories of Merseyside interlude its time to get back to the LMS Suburban routine:

 

 

Both loco exchanges involve automatic uncoupling and coupling.......they take place at roughly the same time on either side of the layout icon_rolleyes.gif This requires a combination of supreme confidence in the RR&Co profiling of the 4 locos involved, coupled (sorry!) with sharp eyes and swift reaction in the event the said confidence is misplaced!

 

 

This quote from my last post is a slight over simplification. icon_rolleyes.gif


When the loco uncouples at Granby its relatively easy for the "sharp eyes and swift reaction" to come into play

 

 

post-465-0-04670700-1521044418_thumb.jpg

 


I knew there was a good reason for not glazing the station roof!
 

 

 

post-465-0-53154800-1521044433_thumb.jpg


Just enough space for my ham fist to do some swift fingerpoken  if required..



The uncoupling in the storage yard on the other side of the room is slightly different 
 

 

post-465-0-04608800-1521044451_thumb.jpg

 

 

Guess where the uncoupling magnet is! icon_rolleyes.gif.

 

 

It would seem the Design and Building manager didn't get the email from the Operating manager about the need for  "sharp eyes and swift reaction" when he built this rather substantial warehouse last year! icon_redface.gif

I had hoped to do something clever with a mirror or even a camera. The reality is that if the loco overshoots the magnet (perhaps 1 in 20) one quick bit of fingerpoken and all is well...........but not with that solid lump of Victoriana complete with girder bridge on top!


The workaround is to rewrite the schedules so the loco uncouples in the block before......easily accessible from an alley way between the terraced houses......the released loco moves to the end of the siding under the warehouse......followed at a safe distance by coaches now pushed into storage by the relieving loco all ready for the return trip to Granby.

 

 

The routine is now coming together nicely ......I just have to finish weathering the locos and coaches that will be involved.


So to finish here is a shot, which I rather like, of one of the ex L&Y tanks at the loco sidings water tower
 

 

post-465-0-51061900-1521044472_thumb.jpg



That's the last time you will see 10698 in out of the box condition.

 


Regards from Vancouver 

 

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After the  Memories of Merseyside interlude its time to get back to the LMS Suburban routine:

 

 

Both loco exchanges involve automatic uncoupling and coupling.......they take place at roughly the same time on either side of the layout icon_rolleyes.gif This requires a combination of supreme confidence in the RR&Co profiling of the 4 locos involved, coupled (sorry!) with sharp eyes and swift reaction in the event the said confidence is misplaced!

 

 

This quote from my last post is a slight over simplification. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

 

When the loco uncouples at Granby its relatively easy for the "sharp eyes and swift reaction" to come into play

 

 

attachicon.gifStation Roof.jpg

 

I knew there was a good reason for not glazing the station roof!

 

 

 

attachicon.gifStation Close Up.jpg

Just enough space for my ham fist to do some swift fingerpoken  if required..

 

 

 

The uncoupling in the storage yard on the other side of the room is slightly different 

 

 

attachicon.gif4 Side view to door.jpg

 

 

Guess where the uncoupling magnet is! icon_rolleyes.gif.

 

 

It would seem the Design and Building manager didn't get the email from the Operating manager about the need for  "sharp eyes and swift reaction" when he built this rather substantial warehouse last year! icon_redface.gif

 

I had hoped to do something clever with a mirror or even a camera. The reality is that if the loco overshoots the magnet (perhaps 1 in 20) one quick bit of fingerpoken and all is well...........but not with that solid lump of Victoriana complete with girder bridge on top!

 

 

The workaround is to rewrite the schedules so the loco uncouples in the block before......easily accessible from an alley way between the terraced houses......the released loco moves to the end of the siding under the warehouse......followed at a safe distance by coaches now pushed into storage by the relieving loco all ready for the return trip to Granby.

 

 

The routine is now coming together nicely ......I just have to finish weathering the locos and coaches that will be involved.

 

 

So to finish here is a shot, which I rather like, of one of the ex L&Y tanks at the loco sidings water tower

 

 

attachicon.gif6 1698 at water tower.jpg

 

 

 

That's the last time you will see 10698 in out of the box condition.

 

Regards from Vancouver 

 

 

 

I love the atmosphere in the second last picture, sometimes it's just nice to look at the static scenery without any engines and you can feel that it's a little working railway rather than a train set.

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